Get Behind This People- Avy Card Idea - Everyone Please Read!

[rgutmann]

Exactly, anyone been to a confined space course, watch how many guys dont even go into the vessel and at the end of the day get the ticket. Just because you sat in one of these courses dont mean crap. It will give more knowledge but will it stop people from climbing where they should not. NO.

agreed, also done in a controlled environment.

 

[GasCan]

I like the saying, "No Skills..No Hills"....catchy but how about.."Could that slope slide, Not for me to ride". (I just made that up...pretty good huh! :d)

I like the following too;

One at a time - If you're going to climb!

(and please don't park below)​

 

[CUSO]

I have never heard of anyone who took an AST-1 course say that it wasn't worth it. 100% of the people I talked to, would recommend it.
That speaks for itself.
If your mommy forced you to eat your vegetables, doesn't make you keep eating them later in life.
If you think it won't help, you have already made up your mind, and no one could change that.

 

[Maclintock]

good idea. but i know some people with avalanche training i still dont want to be near

No Kidding!!!!!!!

 

[moyiesledhead]

BC is now contemplating legislation to try and regulate us. Implementing this type of control measure ourselves will help to limit the extent of these rules. We must get united behind this. Thanks for starting the ball rolling Gas Can.

This may be the #1 most important post in this thread. Take a minute and think about it. Forget the arguements over will it work or won't it. Like it or not we're now in a "political" battle for our chosen recreation people. We better do something, and we better do it soon or it'll be done for us. This is the best "looking" idea I've seen so far. I think it'll work, but that's not the point right now. It's proactive, and it shows we're trying to change. It's a very good political move to make right now.

 

[Cyle]

I think more then anything a card would look good to everyone else, to try and keep the gov't out of it. I think everyone has brought up any points I can think of like just because you got training, doesn't mean you learned anything or will actually use it. As far as riding with different people, my group has joined with another small group multiple times. Tough to know how they will ride. The only way I will do it is if they have all the gear, seem like their head is on straight, and if my group is leading and they are just along for the ride. Least risk for my group that way. It is easy to know if someone has avy training by asking them, whether or not a card would really help in that way I don't know. But I would really like the idea of a card anyways.

 

[HagmanMod1]

it will work like i've said in the past. it wont stop avy's but it will open peoples eyes more to the dangers this is my 15 th season and last fall i did a course with lori from zacs and i think alot diffently now about were i ride and when were to park what to climb etc. the courses work and if you can afford a sled or to sled you can dam well afford the course. 8 of us went in to get it in my group but there were a few that didnt fing it nessesary to obtain and they wonder why the invites arnt there anymore

 

[Zacs]

Hope that you don't mind, but I have reposted this from another thread. Here are some other ideas as well that may help to increase the awareness and access to avy materials and training.
​

==========

Great post, and I agree, but what to do to start 'banding together' in this ongoing battle. I do not ask this in a disrespectful way, truly looking to help and try to become part of the solution. I agree, Im tired of talking about it, more than enough has been said, there are many different opinions but I think in the end all any of us want is to never see this happen again...

I am on board 100% to do whatever small part I can play, just dont know what that is...

Yep, Lori again (Randy just doesn't type fast enough ) ...as we have been on this bandwagon a long time here are some of our thoughts.

Feedback is certainly welcome. Cost vs. benefit....which ideas might be the most effective?

Yes, I am an avalanche instructor, however my passion comes from being a snowmobiler that wants unregulated access to the backcountry and from being a sappy mom and wife that wants return trips for all sledders. Anyone that has attended our programs would probably agree...(on the sappy part at least!)

Education and better access to resources won't lead to zero deaths, but it can't hurt to try. Pretty small investment for our community that has the potential for a pretty big gain.
​

Support Candles to Remember.
Follow this link:
This is a fundraiser initiated by Sherry Waldroff (Beck). Sherry lost her father and a close friend in two separate avalanches last season. Funds raised will go to the Canadian Avalanche Center (CAC) to support snowmobile specific programs.

ACT QUICKLY as this fundraiser wraps up on March 26, 2010.​

Purchase candles or forward cash donations. Be sure to designate your donations under your local snowmobile club or dealership or as a Snowandmud member. There are prizes for the group that raises the most money.

Businesses and individuals can donate to the Canadian Avalanche Foundation and receive a tax deductible receipt.
Canadian Avalanche Foundation

Encourage local dealers and manufacturers to support the Canadian Avalanche Center. The CAC is a non-profit that relies on donations to top up the funds it receives from the Federal and Provincial gov'ts that support them. The CAC is seriously underfunded right now.

Impress upon your MLA or MP the importance of increased Fed. and Prov. support to the CAC. The CAC office is overloaded and understaffed to develop and deliver the programming that they are capable of. They are awesome people with huge hearts and lots of great ideas that simply don't have the resources to do more.

Encourage dealer and manufacturer support of local avy classes. Some dealers and clubs that we worked with last season helped to advertise and promote the courses, offered classroom space for free, offered course discounts or money cards to the participants.

Encourage dealers to send staff to avy classes...even if they aren't sledders. Snowmobile sales and service staff are in a great position to communicate the value of avy training. Besides, wouldn't you rather buy avy equipment from someone who actually knows how to use it?!

Encourage dealers and clubs to display Avy brochures and Course Schedules in their shops, cabins and trailbooths. These are available from the CAC or your local avy instructors.

Encourage dealers, hotels and snowmobile clubs to post the CAC Avalanche Bulletins and brochures on a regular basis.

Encourage snowmobile clubs to do a beacon check of all sledders heading up the trail. Every little opportunity to educate unaware riders is important.

Encourage sledders to access avalanche training classes that include a hands-on field component. Hands-on training is needed to really 'get it'. Sticking your nose in the snow, checking out terrain and completing rescue scenarios with your riding group is key.

Stay current with refreshers and advanced avy classes. Techniques change and avy resources change...stay current. And the USE IT! Awareness is one thing, implementing it is another. Truly, small changes in our riding habits can may HUGE changes in the level of risk that we need to expose ourselves to.
Upcoming programs that I am familiar with:
AST 1

CAC website - Bulletins and Instructors.

Before heading up the trail head or when grouping up with some new riders, ALWAYS do a beacon check. Make a different group member do it each time. You'd be surprised how many guys will have trouble getting their beacon into search mode.

During lunch, or while waiting for white-out conditions to clear, take advantage of the downtime and bury a few beacons to test your friends. Searching for multiple burials should be practiced regularly.

Pass this link around to snowmobilers that are looking for more avy websites and online resources.
Links to avy info

Consider signing up for Zac's newsletters. Check out some of the archived issues and sign up if you find them useful.
Zac's Tracs newsletters

Share photos with the CAC or avy instructors. Snowmobile terrain (simple, challenging, complex...all kinds of riding areas. These pics do not need to include avalanches.)
Also send photos of recent avys, wind effects, unusual weather or snow conditions...
Sled specific photos improve courses and teaching materials for everyone.
Send pics to Lori's Email
Send pics to the CAC Forecasters
Post these photos on the forums as well. Be sure to include a short description. Leave out the names if you want to protect your secret riding areas!

Sign up as a Facebook fan
Zac's Tracs - Facebook
www.avalanche.ca/sled - Facebook
We haven't quite gotten the handle on Facebook yet...but I'm sure my 10 y.o. daughter will catch me up to speed over the summer! :d

 

[0007]

Lori
Your input is always good, on behalf of snowmobilers everywhere, thanks for doing a great job of educating us

Could we get the "Avaluator Card" made into a hood decal?
Be a great constant reminder for us all
I and a few hundred other sleder's would pay $5 if the proceeds went to the CAC, Perhap's a sponsor would pay for printing (I know just the guy for the job)

 

[catmando]

For those who dont think because you ware a card you may not know anything(you very well could be right)But as soon as I see your card guess what Im going to do,Im going to start a conversation asking you what level you are and where did you take it and this will easily carry over to the rest of the group without making anyone uncomfortable.I like to know who knows what as I ride with a lot of different groups and it has a huge bearing on what Im going to climb and where Im going to ride providing conditions are good.I have taken ast 1 with zacs tracs field and classroom as well as every online course and book I could find to read on avy's.If this could promote others taking courses (and I think it would) that is awsome because I know way to many who talk the talk and that dont help much if Im burried and they have no idea what to do!
I took it for you,what are you going too do for me?
catmando!

 

[Oregongirl]

Here's a place to start......

Avy Challenge - challenging backcountry snowmobilers to be avalanche prepared

We need to hammer this into the skulls of all sledders!!

 

[rotormech]

no never been in the mountains, ya right,done a few online things,we do beacon checks,we bury beacons and did mock searches.just sayen there will always be guys that take all the courses because everyone else does and still climb the highest hills that should be left alone.sorry for the negative post..

 

[snoqueen]

I don't know the answers to get more people on board with the AST 1 course.....I think it's always going to be tough sell with certain people. There are some that say they have been riding for years, and that common sense trumps all, and that they don't feel the training will help. I agree that common sense is important, but you also need the skills learned in an avy class to be able to carry out a timely, efficient rescue if needed. The course teaches you much more than using your beacon, probe and shovel. You get to dig a snow pit and study the snow, you really get to look at the surface hoar layers that's buried within the snowpack and how the unstable layers react when they're manipulated. It is completely mind-altering. You will never look at snow the same way again. You will gain a new respect for it, and believe me.....your next trip to the mountains will be a whole new experience. There has to be a driving factor for taking this course, for me it was family.....and wanting to come home after each and every ride. I know the risks are still there, it's just now I can manage the risks to the best of my knowledge and ability.

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Some great ideas, but the key here is "WE", the participants of the sport of snowmobiling, have to be proactive in taking the steps towards better education of our own and setting an example for other back country enthusiasts. I had a brief conversation with Member of Parliament, Ron Cannan yesterday. He has been an advocate for snowmobilers in the past as seen in the attached article.

We discussed what a tragedy it was that the sledders lives were taken this past week in Revy but we both agreed that the deaths were preventable. I explained to him how the snowmobiling community is saddened and disappointed by the loss but also that we are actively in the process of policing ourselves. I mentioned this idea about the "Card". He agreed it was a good idea and was happy to hear how we are taking this seriously and not just shrugging it off, but also asked, "will it stop those type of riders from entering the unsafe areas". We both agreed that it would not. He also said, "from a government perspective, we are going to be forced to do something with this". We also agreed that there really are no measures the Government can take to stop the carnage either but when something becomes so volatile and inflammatory in the eyes of the public they are forced to address it.
In my discussion with him I really made it clear that we are not taking the past 2 years incidents lightly. That we as snowmobile enthusiasts are actively taking measures to try to prevent such tragedies in the future in our sport. He understands that we are not all irresponsible adrenaline junkies but sadly the issue is going to be addressed at a higher level.

 

[rgutmann]

I don't know the answers to get more people on board with the AST 1 course.....I think it's always going to be tough sell with certain people. There are some that say they have been riding for years, and that common sense trumps all, and that they don't feel the training will help. I agree that common sense is important, but you also need the skills learned in an avy class to be able to carry out a timely, efficient rescue if needed. The course teaches you much more than using your beacon, probe and shovel. You get to dig a snow pit and study the snow, you really get to look at the surface hoar layers that's buried within the snowpack and how the unstable layers react when they're manipulated. It is completely mind-altering. You will never look at snow the same way again. You will gain a new respect for it, and believe me.....your next trip to the mountains will be a whole new experience. There has to be a driving factor for taking this course, for me it was family.....and wanting to come home after each and every ride. I know the risks are still there, it's just now I can manage the risks to the best of my knowledge and ability.

Agreed - all the training received is always good , makes us more informed and makes us open our eyes , but all the times I have been to the mountains I have yet to see someone dig a pit, not saying some don't. With all the warnings of high avy activity I would think common sense still plays a major factor in coming home at the end of the day. There's still alot of places to play without putting ourselves, friends, family and others at risk or hardship.

 

[rotormech]

1oo% right rgutmann........

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Agreed - all the training received is always good , makes us more informed and makes us open our eyes , but all the times I have been to the mountains I have yet to see someone dig a pit, not saying some don't. With all the warnings of high avy activity I would think common sense still plays a major factor in coming home at the end of the day. There's still alot of places to play without putting ourselves, friends, family and others at risk or hardship.

This is no doubt true. But right now I think we need to shift our focus from constantly re-stating the obvious over and over again like this and now focus on, "what can we do to calm the waters and do some damage control"? As I've said before, "There's a $hit storm coming" and if we don't do something now to portray ourselves as a responsible, intelligent group of outdoor enthusiasts we are going to be regulated to death and who knows what else. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[rgutmann]

This is no doubt true. But right now I think we need to shift our focus from constantly re-stating the obvious over and over again like this and now focus on, "what can we do to calm the waters and do some damage control"? As I've said before, "There's a $hit storm coming" and if we don't do something now to portray ourselves as a responsible, intelligent group of outdoor enthusiasts we are going to be regulated to death and who knows what else. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

agreed

 

[imdoo'n]

the only way i see a card working is if you have photo on it. make it worth your while to have, like hike the trail fees for everyone, those who can show card get $10 off trail fee. this is easily done right now. yes not everyone will use it but the majority will. maybe make it illegal not to have insurance in the back country, avi victims having to pay for there own stupidity may wake them up.

to have a card just to have a card is a waste, make it a financial reward and it will work. honestly gas can maybe you should let the bcsf or asa speak for the majority of sledders as i don not agree with your idea as it sits.

 

[GasCan]

the only way i see a card working is if you have photo on it. make it worth your while to have, like hike the trail fees for everyone, those who can show card get $10 off trail fee. this is easily done right now. yes not everyone will use it but the majority will. maybe make it illegal not to have insurance in the back country, avi victims having to pay for there own stupidity may wake them up.

to have a card just to have a card is a waste, make it a financial reward and it will work. honestly gas can maybe you should let the bcsf or asa speak for the majority of sledders as i don not agree with your idea as it sits.

I have no problem with that at all, in fact I emailed this thread to the ASA, BCSF and CAC the minute it was posted and I am still waiting to see if they weigh in here? This idea was just simply an early suggestion. A wire frame if you will? The more feedback, the more people that chime in with suggestions and well thought idea's, the easier it will be to find something common to the masses, and the easier to get something rolling. I'll see what the thoughts are of the CAC as I will likely be talking to them Tuesday. Glad to hear the BC Sno-Ghost already has the ear of a Member of Parliament.

No idea is a bad one if it helps better out community, promote safety, awareness, and also promotes an ingredient of some common sense!