Diamond Drive removal and inspection tortural

jl38606

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Alaska
stupid bolt.jpg Can anyone show me what the bolt head inside the brake rotor looks like? I have been working on getting it out for hours and I have come to the conclusion that my bolt head is sheared off. It's hard to tell what I'm looking at having never seen one before and that i'ts in there about two feet. Dimond drive won't come off w/o that bolt out. Secondly I looked at a seemingly identical diagram online of drive shaft (one an 05 one an 06) and the number labeling and prices were way different. My question is...Is the bolt different on an 05 compared to an 06? Thankyou very much in advance. Please help.
 

dezmitchell

Active VIP Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
1,024
Location
Calgary
05 and 06 were the same....I dont see a bolt head there so i would assume its sheared off. You should still be able to pull the DD off as long as there is no bolt head there shouldnt be so much holding it into the shaft. I will try to get a pic to compare after work.
 

jl38606

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Alaska
Thankyou very much this is so frustrating becasue I just bought it and wanted to fix the speedo. Thanks to for the removal guide it is giving alot of people the knowledge to do this job themselves, **just a note too on the hidden bolt under the rubber.Tthose two hex nuts do not thread into the rubber and do not need to be taken ou,t the rubber is just wedged in there easy to remove with flat head.
 

jl38606

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Alaska
As it turns out the bolt was sheared off at the the threads and this thing has been going w/o that bolt for along time. I took the diamond drive to the dealer and for some reason they extracted the boken bolt for me for free. I bought the "updated kit" ($78) that comes with the bolt rubber retainer some washers and two sleeves that make the bolt incappable from warping and bending under torque. Also an important note, the bolt on the 05 m7 is not the same as the 06. In 06 they corrected this problem and the bolt is shortened not sure about the details I have not actually seen an 06 just know what the dealer said. So if you have an 05 get the updated kit when this thing breaks check too that the bolt head is sticking out of the brake rotor like it should be. If its not then its broken, I would have not known it was broke if I hadnt had reason to pull off the dd. That was to replace the speedometer sensor. Which is also a problematic part the dealer said the sensor they sold me was also "updated" I guess time will tell.
 

kinb

New member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
my reverse is not working on my 08 tz1 would this have anything to do with the diamond drive should i remove it and clean it up
 

Gunnertrav

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Grande prairie
Anybody wanna comment on forward and back rotation on the input shaft. Everything looks an feels spanky in there but this movement seems a bit bad. When a guy locks up the brakes it would slap in there I would think. Pickups have some slop in em all the time but don't like it in a sled
 

Paul2727

Active member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
30
Reaction score
36
Location
Reno, NV
Anybody wanna comment on forward and back rotation on the input shaft. Everything looks an feels spanky in there but this movement seems a bit bad. When a guy locks up the brakes it would slap in there I would think. Pickups have some slop in em all the time but don't like it in a sled

Others have commented about the total combined gear lash (wind-up) in a DD, with three separate gear mesh connections. Doesn't seem to cause problems. The synthetic oil, rubber drive belt, and rubber track should provide enough cushion.
 

CatMan16

Active VIP Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
1,185
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Red Deer
Just bring this up again for reference. Going to tear mine down.
 

Justin8485

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Location
Winnipeg MB canada
Newbie here, bringing this thread back up. Great thread btw!
I need your help, I have an 06 F7 and I have all 6 bolts mounting bolts off of the DD and
the bolt pulled out of the brake rotor. My DD is not coming off!! Even if I try to pry it and violently
wiggle it. Did I miss something, what else can I do???
 

dezmitchell

Active VIP Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
1,024
Location
Calgary
There is a bolt inside the shaft on the back side of the DD

There were 2 versions not sure what u have but

1. Long bolt (over 1 foot) u take off and see the head of the bolt on the center of the brake rotor
2. Short bolt inside of the hollow shaft your rotor is on u need about a foot worth of extensions if i remember correctly its a 5/8 bolt but dont quote me its been a long time.

Dont get in there and pry like mad there may be some rust holding the shaft to the splines of the DD. SOMETHING is still connected have a beer and take a good long look and maske sure u got EVERY bolt before trying other options including spraying penitrating oil all around where the splines on the DD connect with the drive shaft.
 

Justin8485

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Location
Winnipeg MB canada
Thanks! I have the long bolt going through the brake rotor. Ok, so when you say "there is a bolt inside the shaft on the back side of the DD".... can you describe more in detail where I cab find this bolt or by chance have a picture? I've never done this before and this thread inspired me to get at it myself.
 

Justin8485

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Location
Winnipeg MB canada
Re: Step by step DD removal and inspection guide WITH PICS

Success! I got it off and split the cases. everything seemed alright with a sled that has 4500miles! spins nice and smooth. The trick to getting it off the drive shaft was to thread the brake rotor bolt a little bit back in and gently tap it forwards. doing this was very easy! its to bad I didn't try it first!
 

mallard d69

Active VIP Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
168
Location
spruce grove
Re: Step by step DD removal and inspection guide WITH PICS

another trick when you have a sticky DD that does not want to come out and you may still yet have to do this anyway to re-install it is to loosen the track. I did this when I did my DD and it made things a lot easier
 

meierjn

Active VIP Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
679
Location
The Rose, Central Alberta
Re: Step by step DD removal and inspection guide WITH PICS

Great thread. But I am a bit confused... I have a 2011 HCR. Which is the 6203 bearing in the diagram that should be replaced? There are several threads about replacing the 6203 with a 5203 or a 4203 (if you can find one) and even a newer 3203. I currently have my DD sitting on the bench. The sled has about 400 miles on it and would like to tackle the job while the DD is out. Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • 2011DD.JPG
    2011DD.JPG
    59.6 KB · Views: 150
Last edited:

Paul2727

Active member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
30
Reaction score
36
Location
Reno, NV
Info about my 2011 HCR, be sure to read post #118 because my HCR had a gross mis-match between the track drive shaft and aluminum tunnel, which causes the 6203 bearing to fail. https://www.snowandmud.com/arctic-c...-drive-bearing-upgrade-thread-lots-47974.html Also: https://www.snowandmud.com/arctic-cat-m-series-456/2011-m8-new-owners-check-your-70878.html

From a discussion on SnoWest a few days ago (http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381080): A 3203 bearing to you and me is dimensionally identical to a 5203 (ID, OD, width). The difference is the 3203 is a newer design with extremely high quality bearing steel with much reduced impurities and better grain structure, better heat treatment for improved dimensional stability (up to 300 °F), internal geometry design changes that are less sensitive to axial overloading, races manufactured to P6 running accuracy, ball uniformity manufactured to one ISO grade better than SKF 5203 (several grades better as compared to other brands) which improves running accuracy at high speeds (reducing noise and operating temperature), improved Polyamide (Nylon) cage to better withstand high accelerations. Those changes resulted in lab-tested load-carrying performance improvement, increased durability (similar axial wear at 40,000 hours vs. 1000 hours), higher reliability, and longer service life (tested at double vs. SKF 5203, more for other brands).

In my opinion, an SKF 3203 ATN9/C3 in a critical application like this, in a $800 DD, in a $10,000 sled, which could ruin a cool ride - is worth the extra $20 cost vs. a Chinese Peer (BDX) 5203. You can purchase one for about $35 at a local industrial power transmission store, ebay or amazon. Some related good discussions:

sealed vs unsealed:
Is this DD oil normal after 500kms / 300 miles? - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

4203 bearing in 2010 M8 update - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

3203 vs 5203 bearings:
Should I changed DD fluid? - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum



Hope those help. Good luck!
 
Last edited:

Dakine879

Active member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
149
Reaction score
285
Location
alberta
Meierjn : i believe it is #14 on the parts explosion. I have been researching this too, as i have an '11 as well with 1500 miles, no problems yet, but don't want to gamble with a known issue on these bearings.
 

meierjn

Active VIP Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
679
Location
The Rose, Central Alberta
Info about my 2011 HCR, be sure to read post #118 because my HCR had a gross mis-match between the track drive shaft and aluminum tunnel, which causes the 6203 bearing to fail. https://www.snowandmud.com/arctic-c...-drive-bearing-upgrade-thread-lots-47974.html Also: https://www.snowandmud.com/arctic-cat-m-series-456/2011-m8-new-owners-check-your-70878.html

From a discussion on SnoWest a few days ago (2010 diamond drive bearing - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum A 3203 bearing to you and me is dimensionally identical to a 5203 (ID, OD, width). The difference is the 3203 is a newer design with extremely high quality bearing steel with much reduced impurities and better grain structure, better heat treatment for improved dimensional stability (up to 300 °F), internal geometry design changes that are less sensitive to axial overloading, races manufactured to P6 running accuracy, ball uniformity manufactured to one ISO grade better than SKF 5203 (several grades better as compared to other brands) which improves running accuracy at high speeds (reducing noise and operating temperature), improved Polyamide (Nylon) cage to better withstand high accelerations. Those changes resulted in lab-tested load-carrying performance improvement, increased durability (similar axial wear at 40,000 hours vs. 1000 hours), higher reliability, and longer service life (tested at double vs. SKF 5203, more for other brands).

In my opinion, an SKF 3203 ATN9/C3 in a critical application like this, in $800 DD, in a $10,000 sled, which could ruin a cool ride - is worth the extra $20 cost vs. a Chinese Peer (BDX) 5203. You can purchase one for about $35 at a local industrial power transmission store, ebay or amazon. Some good discussions:

sealed vs unsealed:
Is this DD oil normal after 500kms / 300 miles? - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

4203 bearing in 2010 M8 update - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

3203 vs 5203 bearings:
Should I changed DD fluid? - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum



Hope those help. Good luck!

Thanks for the info. I also read if you go to the 5203 you have to grind some shaft down a bit to make up for the larger bearing size. If the 3203 is the same size as the 5203 I am assuming you would have to machine the shaft down as well?

Also, in the diagram above which bearing is it?
 
Top Bottom