Castle Snowmobiling Area Closed after this year.

[Sledderglen]

Typical S+M post, gets corrupted and in fighting!!

What the hell, you guy missing the point , they are closing yet another area!!!

This in turn will create more pressure on other areas, then they will say there is too much pressure on the next area and close it too.

They said last year that this will be all good and OHV will continue to be allowed, then boom, OOPS we are going to close the area this year after all.
The questions in the survey are, as usual, skewed to get the answers wanted without any true objectivity of all requested. The questions are written in such a manner if you disagree with the question you are not agreeable to protection of the environment, not on how all effected groups can work together to better the protection of the area.
I for one do not want to see all the damage done to creek crossing etc. but do want to use the trails to ride bikes and sleds and to have responsible free range camping. (Where there isn't paved trails and signs board to explain the obvious, that's what the national parks have been changed into already, for what appears to be mainly foreign tourists).

It seems as soon as there is motor involved it is bad...

There is already enough area excluded for the back country hikers et al already

We need to work together to stop this, now!

I agree. We need to fill out the survey and submit your comments. Comments need to be aimed towards solving issues or coming up with solutions. Designated trails, Rules better layed out trails away from sensitive area. User pay to pay for upgrades etc. Stuff that helps. Saying this is F#(*&ked will get us nowhere. Be nice and get your point across without being rude or namecalling
You fill out survey then get your friends to fill it out. Get a case of refreshments and fill it out together. You know that team green is filling them out as fast as they can type.

 

[Sledderglen]

She says she will be creating 40 jobs. Goverment paid jobs I'm assuming. Has she taken into account the loss of jobs and businesses for that matter in pincher and blairemore. The leaf licking crew that will now be visiting the area come with all their food pre packed and vacuum sealed. They will park their cars and not spend any money or time in either of these community's. I know myself I have in the past spent at least 10,000 per year in that region taking my family camping and going sledding. Places like the rum runners and pure country will for surely feel the hit. The loss of thunder in the valley and run runner days was already a huge hit. This is going to be the nail in the coffin unless they turn the whole area into another Banff or Waterton. I hope that doesn't happen because that's the complete opposite of good for the environment.

I see another Native casino right next to the ski hill. JMHO

 

[pano-dude]

It's obvious that your support of the NDP skews your vision of what is really happening . You can debate the # s forever ....
The point is they never even bothered to consult with the volunteers who have spent countless hours formulating a plan that works for all stake holders !
What good is asking for public input , if you won't even take it into consideration ?

Surely you must see a pattern , as Bill 6 was done in the same manner . The coal / electric issue is decided without input .
As we'll as this job killing idiotic carbon tax .
Can you not see a pattern here ? Loss of jobs , competitiveness and more provincial debt with a shrinking taxpayer base!

The only solution is to get them out of power ASAP , would you not agree ? Or do you think they are doing great things for our province ?
In terms of the castle area ( and soon others ) I would suggest not only completing the survey , but sending a copy to the opposition MLAs in order to start to gather their support ...
And make them aware of the issues ...
I am of the opinion that this should be made into much more of an economic issue than it has been , looked at !
Next time a person stops in woody s RV .. Mention why would I buy a 70000$ toy hauler , when i will have No place to ride ?
Get the buisness people on side ...Again this is a much bigger DEAL than just a place to ride a sled or a quad or whatever for a few days a year ...!
But this is only my opinion.


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Nothing an NDP supporter but it is easy to shoot holes in your argument. By tossing out ridiculous numbers and scenarios you gain no respect. Use real world documentation and things can change.

 

[pano-dude]

On the paved walking paths!

I guess you've never been to a National park..... no paved trail to Stanley glacier, rock wall Traverse, lake minewanka just to name a couple higher profile trails.

 

[rzrgade]

It's a know fact per capita Alberta has the most OHV in Canada .
Here is a study that shows 7 billion $$ in Atv. Business across Canada . This does not include ,
Gas
Food
Hotels
Meals
Trucks
Trailers
Camping gear
RVs
Repairs
Parts
Insurance
Registrations
As well as ALL the people employed in the above buisness's , who pay income tax !!
And I am sure I am forgetting a host of other things ...
So if you add the trickle down effect , I don't think my #s are that ridiculous... at all.
In fact they are most likly low !
In any case , I fail to understand what is wrong with pointing out closing these areas is an economic mistake ?
What specifically do you have against this part of the argument to look at the broader picture ...
I just don't understand ?


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[rzrgade]

Tourism – Canadians Spend $6.9 Billion in 2015 on ATVs/ROVs | Dufferin Grey ATV Club (DGATV)


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[pano-dude]

You're talking Canada wide, where's the stats behind known the known fact? I gave real numbers from Alberta tourism info of 8 billion total tourism.

I'm not debating the closure is not bad but the way you are presenting your argument.

It sounds like someone sitting at the bar after 20 drinks.

 

[Ronaha]

Someone call the medics! A pano-mano just got burned!

 

[pano-dude]

She says she will be creating 40 jobs. Goverment paid jobs I'm assuming. Has she taken into account the loss of jobs and businesses for that matter in pincher and blairemore. The leaf licking crew that will now be visiting the area come with all their food pre packed and vacuum sealed. They will park their cars and not spend any money or time in either of these community's. I know myself I have in the past spent at least 10,000 per year in that region taking my family camping and going sledding. Places like the rum runners and pure country will for surely feel the hit. The loss of thunder in the valley and run runner days was already a huge hit. This is going to be the nail in the coffin unless they turn the whole area into another Banff or Waterton. I hope that doesn't happen because that's the complete opposite of good for the environment.

Not sure how you know someone who does not own an at does not spend money. Millions of dollars spent in towns like Banff, and Jasper.
Same could be said for campers, slip tank of fuel and groceries from Costco park for free in the Bush....

 

[team dirt]

Not sure how you know someone who does not own an at does not spend money. Millions of dollars spent in towns like Banff, and Jasper.
Same could be said for campers, slip tank of fuel and groceries from Costco park for free in the Bush....

Ya Banff and jasper are real awesome places. My Chinese isn't quite good enough so I don't spend a lot of time in these places. Plus I kind of like real bush where animals are still afraid of me. This area they are closing has been well looked after and respected by the ATV community for many years. The fact of the matter is the process as to how this was done was a complete pile of crap. If you are serious about public consultation then please make them public.

 

[Ronaha]

Banff and jasper are so boring they want money before you even get in, they waved park fees nobody was going, full of foreigners.....citiots everywhere...but whatever that was for them, now they are taking more from us.

 

[KatMan]

Please forward data you have/found to crows nest quad squad And the other lethbridge quad club(s) or at least let them know where to find it. They have the most to lose right now. As well as the provincial quad association(unless you know they already have the info). THe environment critic neeeds to have this info and bring it up in question period. The economic isssues that will affect these small towns needs to be brought up, as well as the impact on every sled/quad dealership in Alberta. They need to explain to the opposition what this will mean to them and the community. The best way to get this done is at the club level. There are a number throughout Alberta that have already said they will help. Get the conversation going and actions done as the clock is ticking. The final decisions will Be made in 60 -90 days. Those who have the contacts need to get on the phone as soon as possible.

 

[rzrgade]

You're talking Canada wide, where's the stats behind known the known fact? I gave real numbers from Alberta tourism info of 8 billion total tourism.

I'm not debating the closure is not bad but the way you are presenting your argument.

It sounds like someone sitting at the bar after 20 drinks.

You never supplied facts ( re: your Alberta tourism $$ info )you simply put a # out there with no source .No specifics / no breakdowns ..lmao.

As I said I really don't understand your resistance to use this as extra ammo in our fight to keep more areas open ...

Does Alberta tourism include people camping randomly in the bush ? How accurate are there results in terms of OHV use and expenditure ?
Before you constantly criticize mine , show me a break down of what constitutes a tourist according to Alberta tourism ! Do they include OHV trips to random camping areas as tourists in their studies ?
Actually , your source for numbers in regards to random camping are pretty vague are they not?

Funny I have never Been surveyed about how much I spend a year camping ? Neither has any one I know ...
My dodge dealer never asked if the truck was just for camping & quadding ?

Are you really this misinformed about trickle down economics , or are you just enjoying playing devils advocate ?

I politely asked you to explain your position , and the best you can come up with is you don't like the way I present my side ...lol

Neither I nor you know exactly what the economic loss will be .. Can you agree with that ?
The point is it will be large , and does not need to happen ...
The fact that is astonishing ,is why does the minister in charge not have this info ? Why are we guessing , there should be a comprehensive economic feasibility study to predict the consequences moving forward ....

In these time for s lot of Albertans, any more economic hardship is too much ! No matter what the final $$ value is !

Let alone another poor misinformed decision for the people of our province & another area shut down ...


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[team dirt]

And speaking on the poor economic times. More people have been staying in Alberta closer to home to play. This is a huge area closed to a large portion of albertans now that likely won't go back to the crowsnest now.

 

[Eldereldo]

Have you driven trough Rocky Mountain house ( as just one example )on a summer weekend ....? Just curious ...

If you think Rocky has no economic spinoff because of OHV & camping .. You are not really living in the real world !lol
Do you think the dozens of multi million $ RV dealerships scattered along The QE 2 are there by chance ?

If you are being serious here , you really fail to understand the economic infrastructure intertwined throughout all of Alberta ...
It has been suggested that the spin off is over the two BILLION a year mark from OHV buisness , Alberta wide ...!

Only an NDP economist would call that bogus ...LOL

You don't get what I am saying. It's not that there isn't spin off, it is that if people can't spend their money on one thing, they will spend it on another. Ban all OHV use in Alberta and people who used to quad aren't going to start sticking the money they used to spend on it into the bank, it will be spent on something else. That is why I say using that sort of economic argument is bogus.

 

[team dirt]

You don't get what I am saying. It's not that there isn't spin off, it is that if people can't spend their money on one thing, they will spend it on another. Ban all OHV use in Alberta and people who used to quad aren't going to start sticking the money they used to spend on it into the bank, it will be spent on something else. That is why I say using that sort of economic argument is bogus.

Of course it just won't be spent in the pass anymore. Sunday night it's hard to find a parking spot at rum runners.

 

[rzrgade]

You don't get what I am saying. It's not that there isn't spin off, it is that if people can't spend their money on one thing, they will spend it on another. Ban all OHV use in Alberta and people who used to quad aren't going to start sticking the money they used to spend on it into the bank, it will be spent on something else. That is why I say using that sort of economic argument is bogus.

This does not alleviate the fact that it is a poor financial decision , based off of flawed research and poor management and consultation .
Tell that to the people who make a living off of these various enterprises ..
Tell them well you will just have to start over because ... Well we never really took your livelihood into account !

Do you know how hard it is to start a new buisness as apposed to keep a successful one operating ?
We should be considering ALL stakeholders , not just say well it will work it self out eventually ...

The way you say well people will just spend anyways , it will work out ...

Kinda sounds like our PM saying :
" budgets balance themselves "
We all know how that worked out, now don't we .....


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[Lem Lamb]

First off, I too am not fond of this shutting down of OHV use in the Crows-ness Pass, nor is the folks I ride with take kindly too it either as we've ridden there on & off over the last 30 some odd years, sight-seeing, camping, and fishing as its a nice area for all too share in,,, sad too all Albertans, Canadians and folks form other countries that have had a chance too enjoy the good times there.

This restriction of units "could" change the land scape of hamlets and towns down there, Medican Hat, Lethbridge and surrounding area folk might now have too travel further too other areas now.

Elkford, Sparwood, Jaffery, Cranbrook, Crestton, and other areas out side of Alberta now,,, economic funds being spent there will not benefit us here. "In a way that is."

My plan on Thursday was too test run the mountains down there with my Quad Tracks, but a post come up on this forum that made me consider another area of same distance in BC instead.

I ain't no big spender by any means, but the few bucks that I would of spent down there would or could of helped 2 or 3 businesses in a small way,,, sled folks too as their funds help support the hotels, restrounts, gas stations and so one in the off season... "Looking at the big picture idea."

If OHV's and Sleds are not in the picture, then it could be a game changer for all the folks in Southern Alberta. Not everyone has the time too go walking or have horses if they only have 2 or 4 two or three day weekends off.

Foot and peddle bike hikers and camping folk would most likely do a National park as they are the best of the Rocky Mountain Range, Waterton National Park is a awesome area that's well promoted as this new provincial park will struggle for many years too get off the ground,,, IMO only as I'm long past walking and mountain biking days.

Its hard for a few of us too head too the hills the old way when a small gas powered unit can get us there and back in a few hours, doing a hike where we venture on wheels would take most folks 3 too 4 days.

Let's face it,,, we humans are lazy and wize at the same time. Lazy to not have to struggle like our father's and mothers did in day of long ago.

Wize too take advantage of seeing more areas with less struggles.

OHV'S and Snowmobiles allow this, sight seeing, Harvesting game, fishing as most live fast lives at home with kids too raze, busy at work, and holding down the Fort.

Recreation OHV and Sled use is convenient too most of us, it allows us to get too and from some awesome areas less owning a pony or taking off on foot for a full week.

Oh well, I'll get going at a club group up here and plan rides here and there till we dig out the saddles too fill these outting if OHV'S come to an end.

Just ideas from small town pumpkin Lem

 

[Sledderglen]

Something new also. Crowsnow riders poker rally had to be redirected because of new rules of no OHV over 6000 feet elevation. New called Highlands Parks. Summer and Winter nothing over 6000 feet.

This is unreal new series of parks.

More info coming I was told . Hope its all a bad dream

 

[Turts]

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