Big Ass Generator

[Joholio]

yes, This will be a big install. We are planning on removing the electrical grid on the farm down off the poles and redoing everything underground. As well as powering a couple new locations for power. Gonna have a electrical company busy for a couple weeks me thinks.

You need a drill...

 

[007sevens]

You need a drill...

Well, thats come up in thought. How much more than just digging a trench is the drill.

 

[Joholio]

Well, thats come up in thought. How much more than just digging a trench is the drill.

I would say its gotta be comparable and you would still need to dig the ends, but no disturbance or cleanup or settling or scar...

I just did a couple cattle waterers for a neighbour and he was quite pleased with the cost. PM me if you want Mr.Bond...

 

[007sevens]

Yep, got that message.


As said before a 75 kva 120/208 volt transformer could do the job. Just would need to balance the single phase motors on the 3 phase system.

The 3 phase transformer is just a lot more common than a 240 volt, and I could probably find a good quality reconditioned one at a reasonable cost.


But if the geni can be reconfigured at a reasonable cost that would be easier. Hope that works out for you!

It took two weeks but the guy who thought he may be able to reconfigure has now said it can't be done. Gen Set has sat on my trailer in his yard that long and when I phoned and asked he walked out and said the 300 volt low/600 Volt high is a dedicated stator and the voltage can't be changed because of the windings. He could rewind it but it would be more money then just buying the transformer. I have been told this once before.

So back to the transformer. Why the 75KVA 208Y/120 and not a 75KVA 240delta/120. Would that not give me three 120 leads?

Second question. Transformer said max primary amps is 72 amps. Gent set said 600 volt 253 amps.

 

[Tchetek]

The geni out put is likely 3 phase for 600 volts

208/120 would be more common and likely more affordable. Especially if you can find a good reconditioned unit.

Yes the 3 phase 208 unit would have 3 phases at 120 volts.

The 72 amps would be the current per phase on the primary side (600 volt) and 200 amps per phase at 120/208.

So 600 amps available at 120 volts.

I believe you mentioned a 250 amp at 240 volt as your max load. (500 amps 120 volt?). A 75 kva 240 volt transformer would also work and be a simpler install, but just guessing the 240 volt unit is less common and a 3 phase unit would likely be more affordable.

This is all said with out knowing many details about your loads. It would be best to get an assessment of what you have connected and how they are controlled before purchasing the electrical equipment. Are your motors running at 240 or 120 volts? Control devices may be a little more voltage sensitive if you have 240 volt control transformers or 240 volt contactor coils switching the loads on or off. Motors are usually rated at 120 or 230 volts so can operate fine at 240 or 208. Wire Connections must be changed to switch from 120 to 230 volts. When feeding the panel in a house you would just use 2 or the 3 phases. The grain dryer might take more planning to balance the loads Accross the 3 phase and get the full potential of the 75 kva.

A heating element rated for 240 volts but ran a 208 will still function but only at 80%. So when feeding your house your oven and clothes dryer will take a little longer as the element won’t get quite as hot. All 120 volt loads will operate as normal.

Let me know if you need help finding parts or making a plan, but I’m in edmonton area and don’t go east very often.

 

[007sevens]

The geni out put is likely 3 phase for 600 volt

Yes, 3 phase 600 volts.....200 Volts/phase

208/120 would be more common and likely more affordable. Especially if you can find a good reconditioned unit.

Canada Transformer (an Ontario Company) has both the 240/120 and the 208/120 in Both aluminum and copper windings. Both roughly $3000 for Aluminum and 4000 for copper

Yes the 3 phase 208 unit would have 3 phases at 120 volts.

If the 208 has three phases at 120 volts is the 240 more per phase?

The 72 amps would be the current per phase on the primary side (600 volt) and 200 amps per phase at 120/208.

So 600 amps available at 120 volts.

This was off the spec sheet for the transformer it said max input 72amps. The Genset at full load puts out 253amps.


I believe you mentioned a 250 amp at 240 volt as your max load. (500 amps 120 volt?). A 75 kva 240 volt transformer would also work and be a simpler install, but just guessing the 240 volt unit is less common and a 3 phase unit would likely be more affordable.


The dryer which is what I ultimately want to run has its own control box with all the motors pre wired into that. It will have both 240volt motors and 110 volt motors. The main Breaker for that panel is 225amps. I know that would be over and above what is actually used. It has a simple hook up. 2/0 won't fit into the connections but #2awg would. On the farm you would simply run a line of the grid straight into the box and flip the switch. I know from others that the 15KVA I have on the farm isn't enough. 25KVA would get the job done.

This is all said with out knowing many details about your loads. It would be best to get an assessment of what you have connected and how they are controlled before purchasing the electrical equipment. Are your motors running at 240 or 120 volts? Control devices may be a little more voltage sensitive if you have 240 volt control transformers or 240 volt contactor coils switching the loads on or off. Motors are usually rated at 120 or 230 volts so can operate fine at 240 or 208. Wire Connections must be changed to switch from 120 to 230 volts. When feeding the panel in a house you would just use 2 or the 3 phases. The grain dryer might take more planning to balance the loads Accross the 3 phase and get the full potential of the 75 kva.

A heating element rated for 240 volts but ran a 208 will still function but only at 80%. So when feeding your house your oven and clothes dryer will take a little longer as the element won’t get quite as hot. All 120 volt loads will operate as normal.

Let me know if you need help finding parts or making a plan, but I’m in edmonton area and don’t go east very often.

All this being said if the main panel is rated for 240volt and I could get a 240/120 transformer It should make the install fairly easy. You agree?

Just learnt that the 240/120 transformer is a 120 Aux. Thats not terrible Idea. I could run a lighting system of that auxiliary.

 

[Tchetek]

Yes 240 transformer would be easier install.

But I have purchased many 75 kva 208 (3) phase units for about $1500 in edmonton. My suggestion was only to let you know a 2nd option to investigate to be more affordable or readily available if budget is a big concern.

Call “Canadian industrial” in edmonton. See what the have for reconditioned, it will be like new!. Hell, they might even have a 240 volt unit. ?(780) 465-0811?

The main breaker at 225 amps may be just the maximum rating of the panel, might not be relevant to your actual load. 2/0 should fit as 225 amps required larger wire than 2/0. Your actual loads might be way less!!!

Need to know more about the loads for a positive recommendation.

You will also need to fuse down the generator supply to protect the system regardless of what plan.

If prices are the same or close, go 240 but a 75 kva 240 transformer has a secondary output of 312 amps. Then you need to fuse that down to the weakest link, the 225 amp panel or to the rating of the wire. Then your not getting 75 kva anymore.

What is the hp or Full load amps of the motors and how many?


The kva of the utility transformer is also not reliant to the generator. This is always derated by the utility company. 15kva is 62 amps at 240 volt single phase but is often used to supply multiple properties with 100 amp services. That transformer is not in play when running on the geni.

 

[Tchetek]

Is the 240 volt unit single phase or 3 phase output?

Sorry Don’t know about the “aux”

 

[007sevens]

Is the 240 volt unit single phase or 3 phase output?

Sorry Don’t know about the “aux”

3 phase
75-kva-isolation-transformer-423-923a-000.html

 

[Tchetek]

3 phase
75-kva-isolation-transformer-423-923a-000.html

With 3 phase output:

(Unless the 240 volts is the critical part determined by your loads) the 208 unit might be better.

Considering you will have single phase loads and if connecting to your existing 225 amp single phase panel, you would only be using 2 of the 3 phases. The 208 model provides more maximum amps per phase and would be better, especially if the majority of the loads are 120 volt.

230 volt rated motor loads draw more amps at the lower 208 volt supply, so that would equal out.

But basing your 225 amp load from the main breaker of a panel may overkill things and drive up costs. How many motors and how big? A picture of the nameplate on the motor itself?

I’d just go with the cheapest option.

 

[fredw]

Not to side line this thread.. But I might have a question as well

bought a 80kw catapillar generator from RB for the farm, we use it on 5hp airation fans, main breaker on generator is 150 amp saca3.. I would like to increase it to 330amps, to utilize most of the 80kw it can produce on the 240 volt system

if I start fans, I can start all 20 fans up at once(320 amps) and they run good for ten minutes till main breaker pops from over load, so I know that gen can handle load, display shows up to 75 percent load, now my question is since generator is 80kw, is the wiring from gen to main panel always big enough to for max out put of gen, are will bigger wire be needed that short distance?

because if wiring is correct I just need a bigger main breaker and I'm good to go, but don't want to fry wiring if not.. This main breaker looks like factory built with gen set..

 

[007sevens]

With 3 phase output:

(Unless the 240 volts is the critical part determined by your loads) the 208 unit might be better.

Considering you will have single phase loads and if connecting to your existing 225 amp single phase panel, you would only be using 2 of the 3 phases. The 208 model provides more maximum amps per phase and would be better, especially if the majority of the loads are 120 volt.

230 volt rated motor loads draw more amps at the lower 208 volt supply, so that would equal out.

But basing your 225 amp load from the main breaker of a panel may overkill things and drive up costs. How many motors and how big? A picture of the nameplate on the motor itself?

I’d just go with the cheapest option.

One of the motors is a 20hp 240 volt
two are 5 hp but should be upgraded to 7.5 hp 240 volt
it has about three 120 volt motors of various hp 1.5 to 3 hp.

The 5hp motors don't have a 208 wiring schematic and are on the low end of what I need.

The dryer setup needs at minimum a 60 amp service to keep it going. Anything less than this it starts to trip fail safes which will shut down the flame inside. A huge inconvenience. It has a start up procedure so as to not over load the amperage. However the fill auger turns on and off automatically which if Ihave to many other motors running at the same time will trip the fail safe. I also will be running other 5hp motors in areation fans while the Genset is running the dryer so more load even yet.

I'm not looking to go the cheapest way, I looking to go with the most intelligent way. Going with the cheapest solution will not give room for expansion.

 

[Iron Horse Racing]

Let me know the spec of the transformer you need, we've been trimming our fleet down, never know I may be able to get you one at a good price...

 

[Tchetek]

One of the motors is a 20hp 240 volt
two are 5 hp but should be upgraded to 7.5 hp 240 volt
it has about three 120 volt motors of various hp 1.5 to 3 hp.

The 5hp motors don't have a 208 wiring schematic and are on the low end of what I need.

The dryer setup needs at minimum a 60 amp service to keep it going. Anything less than this it starts to trip fail safes which will shut down the flame inside. A huge inconvenience. It has a start up procedure so as to not over load the amperage. However the fill auger turns on and off automatically which if Ihave to many other motors running at the same time will trip the fail safe. I also will be running other 5hp motors in areation fans while the Genset is running the dryer so more load even yet.

I'm not looking to go the cheapest way, I looking to go with the most intelligent way. Going with the cheapest solution will not give room for expansion.

Yeah your loaded up. Estimated 110 amps for the 20 hp. 30 amps for each 5 hp. 43 each if they change to 7.5.

Getting close to 200 amps at 208 with just the 3 big motors.

Sounds like it has some automation, that would need some investigation to confirm how it would handle 208.

Canadian industrial only has 3 wire 240 volt units. So no 120 volt output just 240.

They do have a reconditioned 75 kva 120/208 for 1500$ and $2038 for new.

If your replacing motors anyway, 3 phase motors might be more affordable too.


I think a 75 kva 120/240 volt 3 phase transformer is too small to just connect your existing panel using just 2 of the 3 phase.

75 kva is enough but either one would need your loads balanced on the 3 phases.

**you need a 75 kva 600 volt 3 phase to 120/240 single phase transformer to keep it simple!

 

[007sevens]

Yeah your loaded up. Estimated 110 amps for the 20 hp. 30 amps for each 5 hp. 43 each if they change to 7.5.

Getting close to 200 amps at 208 with just the 3 big motors.

Sounds like it has some automation, that would need some investigation to confirm how it would handle 208.

Canadian industrial only has 3 wire 240 volt units. So no 120 volt output just 240.

They do have a reconditioned 75 kva 120/208 for 1500$ and $2038 for new.

If your replacing motors anyway, 3 phase motors might be more affordable too.


I think a 75 kva 120/240 volt 3 phase transformer is too small to just connect your existing panel using just 2 of the 3 phase.

75 kva is enough but either one would need your loads balanced on the 3 phases.

**you need a 75 kva 600 volt 3 phase to 120/240 single phase transformer to keep it simple!

Only problem is my Generator will burn up a 75 KVA Transformer. The amperage is to high from the generator to the Transformer.

 

[sledn]

Only problem is my Generator will burn up a 75 KVA Transformer. The amperage is to high from the generator to the Transformer.

Nope... Will draw he 75KVA that the transformer it is fused for only. 1.2KVA per HP total running load.

 

[ABMax24]

Only problem is my Generator will burn up a 75 KVA Transformer. The amperage is to high from the generator to the Transformer.

The amperage of the generator shouldn't matter in this case, you will not be utilizing anywhere near the max output of your generator to run a 225amp single phase panel.

But if this were me I'd switch out the single phase panel to a 3 phase panel for the grain dryer and balance all the loads on that, but a 75kVA transformer should run that. Its also better off to do this to better balance the load across all 3 phases on the generator.

If you really think you need more power down the road go with a 100kVA or bigger transformer, easier to do now than later.

 

[007sevens]

The amperage of the generator shouldn't matter in this case, you will not be utilizing anywhere near the max output of your generator to run a 225amp single phase panel.

But if this were me I'd switch out the single phase panel to a 3 phase panel for the grain dryer and balance all the loads on that, but a 75kVA transformer should run that. Its also better off to do this to better balance the load across all 3 phases on the generator.

If you really think you need more power down the road go with a 100kVA or bigger transformer, easier to do now than later.

Switching the Panel would not be a good option its a complete automated unit. You would have to rewire the complete unit and would not be cost effective.

 

[Tchetek]

With out a panel rewire, a transformer with single phase output is the only option.

Everything needs to be fused accordingly, to the weakest link in the system, that would be the 225 amp panel or the wire feeding it. That panel is close to max load and does not have much room for expansion anyway. I believe you will already have a lug issue as you will need 4/0 wire or larger to feed it.

If planning for major expansion you need to build a larger distribution system, split it up and fuse accordingly, then feed a second panel for expansion.

Or go one step at a time, get this system working, then expand later at the 600 volt level with a second transformer.

Convert to 3 phase, rent the thing out for temp power when you don’t need it, might pay for the conversion.

 

[Tchetek]

Not to side line this thread.. But I might have a question as well

bought a 80kw catapillar generator from RB for the farm, we use it on 5hp airation fans, main breaker on generator is 150 amp saca3.. I would like to increase it to 330amps, to utilize most of the 80kw it can produce on the 240 volt system

if I start fans, I can start all 20 fans up at once(320 amps) and they run good for ten minutes till main breaker pops from over load, so I know that gen can handle load, display shows up to 75 percent load, now my question is since generator is 80kw, is the wiring from gen to main panel always big enough to for max out put of gen, are will bigger wire be needed that short distance?

because if wiring is correct I just need a bigger main breaker and I'm good to go, but don't want to fry wiring if not.. This main breaker looks like factory built with gen set..

You need to investigate the rating of the complete system and fuse to the smallest rating. Check wire size and panel rating.