850 tracks

[oler1234]

Take a look at the track where the rear wheels are. You can actually see them bulging through the belting. Certainly can’t help the delam issue. Some larger, wider wheels may be in order to spread the weight a little better.

not sure about others but my 175 bulges on both the back and upper wheels. any looser and it will ratchet everytime. between this and ice build up i be this is a combo problem. The upper wheels used to be rubber coated ones, not there straight plastic. plus we dont even want to talk about the vibrations i get because of this situations HAH!

all that said i dont feel trail speed is any hindrance considering these sleds see over 80km track speeds climbing around ****. ive watched mine go to 90 numerous occasions.

im like you, max 80 on the trails and i am see all sorts of weird **** on my track.

so solutions or idea of cause yet.

someone was telling me that the drivers on the G4 turbos can become out of sync because of the torque, possible problem. mayby the driveshaft is developing a slight twist.

 

[Caper11]

not sure about others but my 175 bulges on both the back and upper wheels. any looser and it will ratchet everytime. between this and ice build up i be this is a combo problem. The upper wheels used to be rubber coated ones, not there straight plastic. plus we dont even want to talk about the vibrations i get because of this situations HAH!

all that said i dont feel trail speed is any hindrance considering these sleds see over 80km track speeds climbing around ****. ive watched mine go to 90 numerous occasions.

im like you, max 80 on the trails and i am see all sorts of weird **** on my track.

so solutions or idea of cause yet.

someone was telling me that the drivers on the G4 turbos can become out of sync because of the torque, possible problem. mayby the driveshaft is developing a slight twist.

The driveshaft is definitely something I will be looking into, I cannot get my track aligned properly.

The majority of the tears on my track is is in a 36” section with the, major damage to the back side of the lugs is 18”.


The rest of the track looks in excellent condition. Just that section I mentioned is bad.

See where all the little cords are poking out of the side. That was like that since the sled was new, and thats the section that has the cracks in the lugs.
Guess I will see what Camso says.
I dont feel that I did anything to cause that damage, so Im going to go through the painful expensive process of a warranty claim.

 

[rknight111]

When I ride with wildrose shows the trail is usually done at 95-105kmh, with Ron (Rknight) we are generally 85-90kmh and I'm not having the issues some are having but one thing is I am not pinning the throttle on the hard pack, scratchers down always(no flap) just take it a little more easy, I could see hard pack and pinning throttle being more of issue. With looking at some others tracks imo possible the tracks need to be viewed by brp for possibly issues besides blaming operators for speed.

That was on the old 2017 G4, on this new one I have kept it between 65 km/hr and peaking at 75. I think that Michael is the same now. And my track has the cracks behind lugs the same as what Caper11 is showing, I seal them with automotive windshield urethane, to keep the moisture out.

 

[joey]

I truly don't understand what people are complaining about. Me and my good buddy both have 3 inch tracks and I've seen him hold his 850 wide open on logs, stumps, spruce trees, etc and then we race each other down the trail at mach chicken. I've held mine wide open on all the same stuff a lot over the years. 4,000 km later and if it comes apart next ride I'd be like "yeah, makes sense" lol were asking an awful lot from these tracks when you think about it. If it's get stuck in the trees and spend a half hour digging, or pin it over a log, or stump....sorry track but here we go! Haha

 

[skegpro]

Maybe it is time for BRP to do some quality control on their vendors. My 20 expert 165 is all cracked up and upon closer inspection the rubber around the lugs are no thicker then 1mm thick and there is no reinforcement on the lugs to hold them to the corded ply. Imagine building a tower and not tying in the structure to the foundation- that is what camso is doing with these 3” lug tracks
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210321/2f8de1ee28cc5a7ae4fdf4d29a02b5c3.jpg

This is the rubber thickness behind the lugs.
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210321/caec3dc14d6015f39a7a007f15f53c19.jpg
Here it looks like the lug is glued (green dots) to the corded ply then vulcanized in place. How do they expect these lugs to actually stay attached to the track??

Also if you measure the track thickness it varies from 4mm thick to 7mm thick - shouldn’t it be consistent? All my lugs are cracked where the track is thinnest- no surprise.

Skidoo says no warranty because track speed exceeded speed- which they have not told me what speed that is.
I have had a 17 850 154 and 165 - both no track issues and a 18 850 175 with no issues and now the 20 165 is falling apart riding the same areas - seems like that is a quality control issue with manufacturing.

Such a bull**** cop out.
There is nothing I hate more than how doo doesn't own their issues.

Flash back to the belt fiasco.
Where is brp cares?

 

[skegpro]

not sure about others but my 175 bulges on both the back and upper wheels. any looser and it will ratchet everytime. between this and ice build up i be this is a combo problem. The upper wheels used to be rubber coated ones, not there straight plastic. plus we dont even want to talk about the vibrations i get because of this situations HAH!

all that said i dont feel trail speed is any hindrance considering these sleds see over 80km track speeds climbing around ****. ive watched mine go to 90 numerous occasions.

im like you, max 80 on the trails and i am see all sorts of weird **** on my track.

so solutions or idea of cause yet.

someone was telling me that the drivers on the G4 turbos can become out of sync because of the torque, possible problem. mayby the driveshaft is developing a slight twist.

Drivers are junk.
Is it eating your rail cap on the passenger side?

 

[skegpro]

Ahh no.
Im fully aware of how fragile and expensive this track is. I limit my speed on the trail. Overheating is a BS response now that I see the actual paddle cracking on the backside extending vertical.

Whats the difference between 50mph on a trail, or 60mph poaching a track in the mtns? Better not turn the HP up on the turbo than. Lol

My track has not been abused .


I did the exact same speed with my 19, and it had no issues like I’m seeing on this track.//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210321/06ff058de4d06d0b1c6cc211b13eecae.jpg

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210321/5ca0fd5b6299947807f461399a3615a5.jpg

I fully agree, I don't think there is any greater shock load you can put on a track then when you a pinned in the deep and then hit a setup track.

I am seriously thinking of buying the camso right off the get go for next year, and then swap in the factory track right before I sell it.

 

[greenthumb]

I truly don't understand what people are complaining about. Me and my good buddy both have 3 inch tracks and I've seen him hold his 850 wide open on logs, stumps, spruce trees, etc and then we race each other down the trail at mach chicken. I've held mine wide open on all the same stuff a lot over the years. 4,000 km later and if it comes apart next ride I'd be like "yeah, makes sense" lol were asking an awful lot from these tracks when you think about it. If it's get stuck in the trees and spend a half hour digging, or pin it over a log, or stump....sorry track but here we go! Haha

I'm 50% on your philosophy and 50% on its BS.

I too feel with all the abuse that a track goes through, that it is not unreasonable to have damage and consider it a wear item. I'm right around the 4k per track replacement interval. When I'm out riding, track preservation is not my #1 priority. Sledding is expensive and it goes with the territory. Anyone here buy motorcycle tires or off road tires??

On the other hand, the track on my xm is pushing 11k without any notable damage. You don't see paddles flying off the poo or cat 3". There are longevity issues on this specific track and they are common.

People aren't used to having to replace tracks on sleds due to them wearing out or falling apart. It's not the norm. If you bring it up with BRP, the blame it on the customer and dismiss any attempt at a warranty claim. This is something they have been known to do in the past and is a really ****ty way to do business; but they aren't the only ones.

You wanna play, you gotta pay!

 

[greenthumb]

someone was telling me that the drivers on the G4 turbos can become out of sync because of the torque, possible problem. mayby the driveshaft is developing a slight twist.

I have seen the drivers out of phase before and it wasn't on a turbo. Basically one twisted on the shaft slightly. You could see the plastic deformed in the 'splines'.
No explanation as to why, probably from a shock load.

 

[joey]

I'm 50% on your philosophy and 50% on its BS.

I too feel with all the abuse that a track goes through, that it is not unreasonable to have damage and consider it a wear item. I'm right around the 4k per track replacement interval. When I'm out riding, track preservation is not my #1 priority. Sledding is expensive and it goes with the territory. Anyone here buy motorcycle tires or off road tires??

On the other hand, the track on my xm is pushing 11k without any notable damage. You don't see paddles flying off the poo or cat 3". There are longevity issues on this specific track and they are common.

People aren't used to having to replace tracks on sleds due to them wearing out or falling apart. It's not the norm. If you bring it up with BRP, the blame it on the customer and dismiss any attempt at a warranty claim. This is something they have been known to do in the past and is a really ****ty way to do business; but they aren't the only ones.

You wanna play, you gotta pay!

You made some very valid points. I don't have enough experience with BRP to dispute them. And I look at the 35 year old sled in my yard with almost 13 k on it and the original track is probably 60%. Given, it has a 1/2 lug and an 1/8 of the power of a modern sled. But with 165+ horse, 3 inch lugs and all the hazards they find, I just don't think we can complain too much. Obviously there's those customers out there that had failures under 1500 km and that's BS, but I don't think that's the majority, and lots of abuse still. Like the belt issue with the 850s. "I unloaded my sled off the truck and held it wide open doing catwalks 30 seconds later and I blew a belt. Friggin BRP!!". No, you're a moron. Warm up your belt.

Lots of those situations I see. But like I said, I have not had to deal with BRPs service

 

[snopro]

Hasn't anyone figured it out yet? Its not just BRP and their tracks? Its Cat and their exploding clutches. Christ I even see ads of guys still looking for new drive axles for Polaris's yet they still put clamps on them? All the manufacturers have problems and when its time to pay up they look the other way. People need to understand that. We are guinea pigs and still line up for the opportunity to do it all again.

 

[bobsledder]

know some cat guys that have had to replace track on Alpha. lugs fly off. Towed my buddys Alpha off hill the other day 2500km and engine is done Cracked cylinder and pooched piston. I still have towed more of the mighty yamaha than anything else.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

I was looking at a Paddle that my kid picked up off the trail. It looks like it was just glued on the surface, it was just flat on the bottom, no real “meat” tore out of the track. It has to be sh*tty construction, like everyone says, the old xm’s and T3’s didnt have these problems. I roasted my 3” powerclaw on my 270Hp King cat on a tree until it smelled like burning wood, that track didn’t have so much as a scratch on it These BRP tracks, in my opinion even look like a cheap POS. IT looks plasticky compared to a “real” track.

 

[ABMax24]

Hasn't anyone figured it out yet? Its not just BRP and their tracks? Its Cat and their exploding clutches. Christ I even see ads of guys still looking for new drive axles for Polaris's yet they still put clamps on them? All the manufacturers have problems and when its time to pay up they look the other way. People need to understand that. We are guinea pigs and still line up for the opportunity to do it all again.

While all this is true it's also about frequency of failure. From what I've seen there's more track failures than clutch or drive shaft failures on the other brands. Granted the track failures aren't limited to Doo, Polaris has issues with theirs, and Cat to some degree as well. The one common denominator is Camso, but I guess that's what happens when one company effectively has the monopoly on the market, they get to sell sh!t for top dollar and still remain in business. I'm hoping that Composit eventually puts enough competition on Camso that they up their track construction quality.

 

[greenthumb]

Hasn't anyone figured it out yet? Its not just BRP and their tracks? Its Cat and their exploding clutches. Christ I even see ads of guys still looking for new drive axles for Polaris's yet they still put clamps on them? All the manufacturers have problems and when its time to pay up they look the other way. People need to understand that. We are guinea pigs and still line up for the opportunity to do it all again.

The old attage: Cheap, Fast or Good; pick two.

Look at the forums. People demand better and better every year. Then complain about cost.
The sled manufacturing business is pretty cutthroat. It's all a balance of keeping peoples asses on your brand. Technology is progressing faster than ever, and consumers expect it. Deliver a reliable, refined product, but lack in performance or be late to market and they will already have bought the competition. Deliver the latest and greatest every season at an affordable price, and there is bound to be reliability issues.

I build multimillion dollar equipment for a living. We have one competitor. The competition, technology development, failures and customer relations is uncannily similar to the sled business. Customers are just as clueless.

I think we are at a turning point in the snowmobile market. For decades, sleds were underwhelming and unreliable. Now you can buy a sled that outperforms riders ability and have a warranty. But they aren't cheap and we gobble them up. The 'sport' sleds have all but disappeared. The average Joe wanting to get into the sport needs to cough up the cash of a small car or buy some out of warranty, high mileage, expensive to fix, used junk.
I feel the mfg's have been pushing the price as to see what the market is willing to pay and we are seeing the start of pushback.
There are some 'sport' models returning now. Hell, Yamaha is even making the VK540 again. The next 5 years will be interesting. I think there will be ultra premium models, but a smaller percentage of sales and mid priced sleds will grow.

Hmmmm, not sure where I got all that from a discussion on tracks, but I digress.

 

[snopro]

While all this is true it's also about frequency of failure. From what I've seen there's more track failures than clutch or drive shaft failures on the other brands. Granted the track failures aren't limited to Doo, Polaris has issues with theirs, and Cat to some degree as well. The one common denominator is Camso, but I guess that's what happens when one company effectively has the monopoly on the market, they get to sell sh!t for top dollar and still remain in business. I'm hoping that Composit eventually puts enough competition on Camso that they up their track construction quality.

We could always go back to the horrors of the Kimpex paddle tracks. Now those were pieces of chit. Lol

 

[highlandrider]

It would be great if we can get some actual numbers of the 850 track failures, (track size, km's, year, sled model). We need actual numbers for BRP and Camso to listen, otherwise they say there is no problem and it is just a few complainers trying to get free stuff.
My track started losing lugs at about 2200 kms - 165 3" 2020 Expert

The local dealer says about 15% of the sleds sold this year are coming in with track complaints, but haven't found out how many are successful warranty claims.
I would be happy to pay a discounted rate on a new track (somewhere around 50% or prorated for a reasonable amount).

 

[maxwell]

It would be great if we can get some actual numbers of the 850 track failures, (track size, km's, year, sled model). We need actual numbers for BRP and Camso to listen, otherwise they say there is no problem and it is just a few complainers trying to get free stuff.
My track started losing lugs at about 2200 kms - 165 3" 2020 Expert

The local dealer says about 15% of the sleds sold this year are coming in with track complaints, but haven't found out how many are successful warranty claims.
I would be happy to pay a discounted rate on a new track (somewhere around 50% or prorated for a reasonable amount).

yea, i would like to see something like this from BRP. At least cost on tracks with less than 5000km.

 

[Cableguy]

all 3 of our 850s started showing crack and delam issues at 28-3000 kms with lugs starting to fly off around 4000
we gorilla glued and black windsheild urethaned them to no avail may have extende the life some but unsure
one of them started a tear in the belting and we bolted some belting to keep together and so far holding up
I dont blame skidoo as much but they def need to go after track supplier
toyota has recalled 1000s of frames and is making their supplier cover the cost of replacing and repairing ( kids 2005 tacoma with 390000kms was a $18000 bill 2 years ago) for free

 

[maxwell]

i am sort of on the fence with this track thing to be quite honest. we have pushed the manufactures to be lighter and perform better and we have now reached that point where reliability has suffered. With current technology you can have a track with 3 performance characteristics. (light, Durable, best performance ) But you can only pick two like mentioned above. When you shop for tires you get to pick the same. Obviously you get more life out of 1500$ worth of tires than you do 1500$ in tracks but you get my point. I absolutely love the way this track performs and there isn't another track on the market right now that compares to it. Do i want to go back to a heavier more durable track? absolutely not. Am i upset with BRP about this for pushing the limits? Absolutely not. Do i hope they come out with a track that performs the same but is more durable in the future? absolutely. Am i going to walk into my dealer and purchase a replacement track and ask for a decent deal? you bet. With my new sled pushing 30Hp more at altitude and taking me places i simply couldnt get to before i would have to be pretty silly to think that isn't going to wear tracks out faster. I understand why manufacturers call these wear items. Its impossible to control the abuse they go through. My track most certainly has some self inflicted damage but there is a few spots that i see as potential flaws in the design. So for that i do hope BRP comes out with a solution that works for everyone. If that's a cost deal on a track from brp then so be it that works for me. I am not wanting to add 15lbs of rotating mass back to my snowmobile. I know most of you probably don't agree with this and think a 165hp snowmobile with 3" lugs should last forever and be replaced indefinitely. But this is where we are at so what is the best move forward for BRP?

Let them know, Upload some photos. You never know.

https://www.brp.com/en/forms/contact-us.html