2017 Summit 850 165" vs 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162"

[summit1000]

Okay, so this is going to be a fairly long post here. Apologies in advance.

It has been quite a while since I posted on here and has also been a bit since I've owned a sled, but I'm looking at getting back into it. I believe 2014 was the last time I owned a sled. I ended up selling it because I couldn't really afford to continue owning it. My financial situation has improved since then and after going to Revelstoke a couple weekends ago and renting a Summit 850 165", I'm ready to get back into it and am thinking of buying a leftover 2017 sled. I'm trying to decide between an 850 Summit 165" and a Sidewinder MTX 162".

After renting the 850, I was dead set that it was what I wanted. I rode my buddies 2014 Pro RMK 800 155" and couldn't believe how much more comfortable I was on the 850. Up until that point, I'd really been more of a Polaris fan than a Ski-Doo fan. The only Ski-Doo I had ever really liked was my 2006 Summit 1000 and realistically, the only thing I liked about it was the power. Everything else about it was awful. It was heavy, hard to throw around, and just generally terrible. I liked with the 850 that it was so easy to get on its side and it responded to weight transfer and counter steering really well. Also loved how quickly it got on top of the snow and the power was decent. Oh and absolutely loved the SHOT start. That may be the greatest feature on a sled since the electronic reverse.

The guy I was with who had the Pro RMK had mentioned that he was somewhat interested in the Sidewinder. My opinion of the Sidewinder without looking up anything on it was that it was a typical four stroke, Yamaha POS that probably weighed 1000 lbs and was good for pointing straight up a chute and doing pretty much nothing else, but I decided to look a bit further into it. Now it seems that I can't find anything bad about the Sidewinders. Seems people mention that they're heavy, but that you can't even feel the weight unless you get it stuck. I know the Sidewinder will obviously have a lot more power than the 850, especially at elevation, but how does the handling compare? Seems like lots of people say "best handling four stroke ever" or "handles almost like a two stroke", but how close to a two stroke is it handling wise? Are people just drunk off the power and ignoring that it's a heavy pig or is it actually that good? I'm not a really big guy either (5 ft 8" and 185 lbs....and not 185 lbs of muscle lol).

I read that ready to ride, an 850 is about 540 lbs. A Sidewinder is around 620 lbs. I have heard that it's fairly easy to lose 30 lbs or more on a Sidewinder though (lightweight battery, aftermarket exhaust). So it'd then be within 50 lbs or so of what the 850 is. My experience is that the weight itself is less important than how the chassis and suspension handles the weight and how it is balanced and distributed. I seem to be able to find a lot discussing how powerful the Sidewinder is and I know that in theory a four stroke should be more reliable as well, which would be a big factor for me as if I'm going to buy basically new, I'll be keeping it for a while, but the most important piece of the puzzle I'm looking for now is how's the handling and how does the weight feel?

So, has anyone ridden both an 850 Summit and a Sidewinder MTX? If so, how would you compare them and which would you buy or did you buy?

 

[DeNytroguy]

Tried out a 17 850 when a buddy rented one, liked how nimble it was... I've never tried the sidewinder, but have only heard positive things about it.... would love to try one out.

 

[DV-ENT]

my advice is ride them both for a while and then do some research on them both, especially if your looking at a 2017.... there is lots of info on the 2017s and that might really help you moving forward with your decision. welcome back and good luck with what ever choice you make, i would also suggest trying a newer polaris axys as it is completely different than the pros and if you can throw a leg over the 2018 cat do it.

 

[dragonweld28]

Be careful with the Doo. Many issues in 2017. Weak bulkhead, thin tunnel cooler, crank issues, CDI and Stator issues, There horrible on oil and go thru a belt a ride. I ride an Axys and its had some electrical issues itself. For what I have heard from lots of people is the 2018 Mountain cat is the sled to have. Best bang for your dollar. Great power, excellent track and a wicked shock package.

My friend rented a cat the other weekend as he was looking to upgrade his pro, and he said the cat was better than his pro RMK in everyway.

The sidewinder is a fun sled. SO much power. But its shock package is horrible and unless you go 174 or an aftermarket skid, it just wheelies everywhere. There still very heavy and have a weird front end feel with that big crank spinning at 8900 rpm. They have there chaincase very lower and have seen many damaged. They also have Reverse issues and working on them is a nightmare.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Catman10]

As an owner of a Sidewinder I have posted many results with mine and can say that I have spent some decent time on a 850 so I can give you both sides of the story. The 850 is definitely doo's best handling most powerful machine yet and I did not mind riding it at all, almost bought one to be honest but if you do your research into them I would not touch one with a 10 foot pole will all of there major unfixed issues and the cost of running that sled will be very high. Now the Sidewinder, of coarse the obvious power is true, it blows by an 850 like it has broken reeds, blows all 2 stroke stockers outta the water and it takes a 2 smoke with a turbo running 8-10 pds of boost to keep up to the winder. Now some of what dragon weld said is true but he has a bit of a dislike for the yammies even though he says he likes to ride mine, here is the truth, yes you feel the weight on hardback and it is not as nimble in the trees forsure,but everywhere else it feels very nimble like a two stroke, even the stuck thing really is not an issue as I roll it over or dig it out no differently than any other sled. It actually crawls outta the hole better because of the difference in the way it engages way smoother low end power. The factory rear shock is horrible and needs to be addressed first thing, the 2018's have the drop and roll and need to be protected but my 2017 is positioned no differently than any other sled and in regards to working on them being a nightmare, it took me and a buddie 8 hours to swap his complete chain case on his 2018 because he hit a rock and we did have to take the sled half apart forsure but part of it was learning for us as we have never done it before, I now could do a swap in prob 6 hours no problem, it does involve dropping engine oil and antifreeze and pulling the rear skid brake rotor and pulling the driveshaft which makes it time consuming, a poo or a cat would be done in 2-3 hours for the same job by most people. My reverse acted up on my first trip and has not given me an ounce of trouble since, I found out that the electric actuator gets moisture in and corrodes and Yamaha will change it out for me no problem whenever I bring it in. Get on one and try it out, hell I will be in Revy this weekend come take it for a rip, just promise to bring it back. In summary if you are an adventurer that is in the trees most of the time this is not the sled to own, but if you are a meadows kinda rider with a bit of trees you will not be disappointed, there is some great deals on layover 17's and you will just put gas in this machine and drive everyday with a s$!t eating grin forsure. I hope this was honest enough for you and if you pick a 2 stroke I definitely would go any year Cat from 16 and up first and the Axy second, let us know what you do!

 

[Dazzler]

As DE-VENT mentioned, try an Axy as well. It's a completely different ride compared to the Pro chassis, and there likely will be some smoking deals coming on 2018 hold overs depending on the 2019 lineup!
Also there should be demo rides coming up, try a new cat! I rode with a couple 2018 cat's this year and they are the cats a$$.

 

[0neoldfart]

I haven't spent any time on an 850, but I've ridden doo, polaris, etc. Current ride is a 2017 King Cat (which is a 2018 Sidewinder in disguise). I can tell you the sled handles great in powder, not that great on hardpack. Will out perform buddies 163" XM in the trees, handles better then my 2013 Cat 925 with Exit suspension and a skinz front end. I'm almost 50 years old with two shoulders and a knee that requires surgery, and I can ride it for four days straight in good snow, keeping up with my friends 2018 174 Axys 800 with a sidekick turbo on it in the trees, but it takes a bit more effort on my part. Getting unstuck is no worse then any other sled. Fully fueled and ready to ride a King Cat is 660 lbs - 90 lbs heavier then my wife's 2015 Pro RMK 155 with a MNTK auxillary cooler and tunnel braces - there is a post about sled weights in Snomobile chat, I weighed the King Cat, an M1100T, a 2013 Cat with a 925, and the ProRMK. Anyway, suspension setup is critical on any sled, more so when it's a heavier unit.

 

[oler1234]

I haven't spent any time on an 850, but I've ridden doo, polaris, etc. Current ride is a 2017 King Cat (which is a 2018 Sidewinder in disguise). I can tell you the sled handles great in powder, not that great on hardpack. Will out perform buddies 163" XM in the trees, handles better then my 2013 Cat 925 with Exit suspension and a skinz front end. I'm almost 50 years old with two shoulders and a knee that requires surgery, and I can ride it for four days straight in good snow, keeping up with my friends 2018 174 Axys 800 with a sidekick turbo on it in the trees, but it takes a bit more effort on my part. Getting unstuck is no worse then any other sled. Fully fueled and ready to ride a King Cat is 660 lbs - 90 lbs heavier then my wife's 2015 Pro RMK 155 with a MNTK auxillary cooler and tunnel braces - there is a post about sled weights in Snomobile chat, I weighed the King Cat, an M1100T, a 2013 Cat with a 925, and the ProRMK. Anyway, suspension setup is critical on any sled, more so when it's a heavier unit.

Out perform a 163 xm in the trees. We should meet up for a ride sometime, I’d like to see this king cat in action.

 

[summit1000]

Well, was hoping this post would make the decision on what to get easier, but if anything, I think it has complicated it further lol. I've gone from just trying to choose between a Sidewinder and an 850 to now I'm taking another look at pretty much every mountain sled. I looked up some pricing on Kijiji to see what deals there are on new sleds and this is what I found.

2016 Arctic Cat M8000 162" - $8,499
2018 Arctic Cat M8000 162" - $13,000
2017 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162" - $15,999
2017 Polaris 800 163" - $10,900
2018 Ski-Doo Summit 850 165" - $12,499
2016 Ski-Doo Summit 800 174" - $10,878

Also found a very lightly used (271 km's on it) 2014 XM 163" with a few mods for $8999.

The '16 Cat seems like a phenomenal deal, but how does the '16 Cat compare to the '18? I know they made some improvements for 2018, but are there enough improvements to justify a $4,500 price difference between a '16 Cat and an '18 Cat?

 

[canuck5]

2017 Summit 850 165" vs 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162"

I have a winder as well with a lot of ride time I agree with a lot of the above as well but I'm a big guy so the riding weight bugs me less. I've also spent time on the 850's full days I too think the sleds are awesome chassis is great engine is strong but they have been to hit and miss for me to own one today(belts coolant bottles and bulkheads for some). I too like the axys but engine feels weakest of all brands would say it needs boost. I also owned a 2014 cat this year and can say with the 38" front end it was harder to throw around than my sidewinder the 18 cats engine and clutching is amazing sled handles well and has great shock options all around If i was to buy a two stroke today an 18 plus cat would be my pick. If that 16 cat has a 36" front end and your on a budget I would go that way. The 2018 850's had some updates so definitely an option, if your looking for turn key gas and go with 70lbs weight penalty that you will feel but only on lower snow sidewinder is for you.

 

[canuck5]

Looking at the spindles on the 16 cats pretty sure they are 36" front end and that's the Suzuki engine for $8500 you could probably bag that thing for a few years and lose very little money crazy cheap.

 

[summit1000]

Looking at the spindles on the 16 cats pretty sure they are 36" front end and that's the Suzuki engine for $8500 you could probably bag that thing for a few years and lose very little money crazy cheap.

From a quick google search, it looks like the '16 Cats are 34.5" to 38.5" adjustable ski stance and I believe it's set from the factory at 36". I'm somewhat on a budget, but more so just want good value out of the sled I buy and just want to know that I'll enjoy it. I know I'll enjoy the 850, but it's also pricey as far as a two stroke goes and there seems to still be some issues with them. The Arctic Cat at $8500 seems to represent the best value. Like at that price, the Arctic Cat is more like buying a used sled. It's already taken a massive depreciation hit, but it isn't one that I'm going to have to eat.

 

[canuck5]

2017 Summit 850 165" vs 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162"

I'm guessing you could put 3000km on that 16 cat and sell it for 4-5grand in 3 years(a running sled has a bottom price) if skidoo comes out with a new engine chassis whatever next year that 18 850 takes the biggest haircut of them all no doubt. The 850's are like the 08 xps there is some good there no doubt but people are having enough issues it's a dice roll might get an awesome one might get a belt shredder.

 

[Bnorth]

The 16 cats are really good machines. You can't go wrong with one at $8500. I have spent a bit of time on one and like them a lot, it got me back to taking a serious look at cat for my next sled. Since you're getting back into the sport and being somewhat budget conscious that's what I'd recommend it leaves more money left over for new gear, updated avy training/gear and more sled trips while you knock the rust off.

 

[summit1000]

I'd very much like to be able to test ride all of them, but I think that may be difficult. I could rent an Axys or an M8000, but I as far as I know, nowhere is renting Sidewinders. I'm leaning towards the Cat making the most sense. At $8,500, even if I bought it and hated it, I could probably sell it for a small loss soon after getting it. I'm going to guess $8,500 list would work out to around $10,000 out the door. Also, the Cat coming with a 2 year warranty is a nice touch. This is the link to the ad I found for the one listed at $8500. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile/...ty/1333161356?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

[canuck5]

I bought my sidewinder from them and they pushed through warranty things for me this year as well I wouldn't hesitate buying from them again.

 

[Summitric]

i bought my sidewinder from them and they pushed through warranty things for me this year as well i wouldn't hesitate buying from them again.

hmmmm, that opens the door.... What warranty things did you have to have done on a new sidewinder?

 

[Lunch_Box]

Should be able to get a 2017 Sidewinder cheaper than $15,999. I paid $16,500 out the door for mine at the beginning of the season. So if shops still have hold over 2017s I can imagine they will be blowing them out.

 

[summit1000]

Should be able to get a 2017 Sidewinder cheaper than $15,999. I paid $16,500 out the door for mine at the beginning of the season. So if shops still have hold over 2017s I can imagine they will be blowing them out.

That's just what I've seen online so far. Haven't actually gone to any dealers yet. Planning on doing that this weekend. The prices I listed out there are just the lowest I've seen dealers advertising on Kijiji for each of those sleds. $16,500 out the door seems like a pretty good deal on Sidewinder when you consider the MSRP of a new one is close to $20k.

 

[catalac]

I think the simple answer to the question is take a look next time out to mountains how many sidewinders you see vs summits.