2016 Yamaha Viper

[0neoldfart]

Looks like the new front has actually only moved the top of the arm back, hasn't moved the bottom of the ski spindle forward at all from what I can see (see the comparison picture I made). So that won't change where the front balance point is (other than it being narrower than 2015). Keeping the ski and spindle back are going to help the bigger sled as the mass will now be more focused at the front arm (especially with it being narrower), and it will pivot there. You also gain an advantage along the vertical plane directly over the spindle by keeping it rearward when you narrow it up.

By moving the skis out on a nose heavy sled you are increasing the ski pressure (as you found out) on the very front and rear points of the sled. On a nose heavy sled, keeping as much mass focused near the front suspension arm will definitely help it be more manageable instead of fighting heavy steering. Just a guess - your custom front skid spring is now a higher spring pressure?

You are correct - higher spring rate, and slightly longer, but I run less preload for ride and initial start rate. There was definitely a "fine line" between desired performance and excessive front arm pressure (trenching). Using a straight rate spring instead of a progressive wind (The Raptor springs are progressively wound) allowed better slow speed characteristics. This is nothing new, back in the day we used to relocate the suspension when "making" mountain sleds, always resulted in higher ski pressure, which could be corrected with a spring change. I went with the Skinz front end simply for the narrower stance - I figured I could tune out the nose heavy feeling, which I did.
As for the a-arm points, I believe the chassis mounting points have not changed from the 15 to the 16, so they likely share the same overall "wheelbase", but the laid back upper a-arm mount will allow the front shock to be more linear, so likely more supple in the rough stuff, while allowing the front end to take the bigger hits without the "spikes" commonly associated with the float shocks.

 

[Modman]

You are correct - higher spring rate, and slightly longer, but I run less preload for ride and initial start rate. There was definitely a "fine line" between desired performance and excessive front arm pressure (trenching). Using a straight rate spring instead of a progressive wind (The Raptor springs are progressively wound) allowed better slow speed characteristics. This is nothing new, back in the day we used to relocate the suspension when "making" mountain sleds, always resulted in higher ski pressure, which could be corrected with a spring change. I went with the Skinz front end simply for the narrower stance - I figured I could tune out the nose heavy feeling, which I did.
As for the a-arm points, I believe the chassis mounting points have not changed from the 15 to the 16, so they likely share the same overall "wheelbase", but the laid back upper a-arm mount will allow the front shock to be more linear, so likely more supple in the rough stuff, while allowing the front end to take the bigger hits without the "spikes" commonly associated with the float shocks.

LOL thanks, I set my dads Yammy up the same (with floats though), and used the canister to give a better rate initially but able to take the big hits if it needs. I agree with the a-arm comments, very likely made them line up and will maintain a consistent rate now. The steering arm is now a lot farther from the spindle (looks like 2-3"), wonder if the mechanical advantage is now greater for the bars (you'd think it would be) and if they lost any turning radius by doing that?

 

[0neoldfart]

LOL thanks, I set my dads Yammy up the same (with floats though), and used the canister to give a better rate initially but able to take the big hits if it needs. I agree with the a-arm comments, very likely made them line up and will maintain a consistent rate now. The steering arm is now a lot farther from the spindle (looks like 2-3"), wonder if the mechanical advantage is now greater for the bars (you'd think it would be) and if they lost any turning radius by doing that?

There might be a mechanical advantage at the bars now - guess it would depend if they changed the bellcrank in the column (doubt it). To my way of thinking, any loss in radius would only be felt at parking lot speeds, as the narrower front will result in foot pressure having far more effect with the narrower front end - less rider input required at the bars to initiate a turn or to get it up on its side.
This is all speculation until I can ride the sled and have a good look at it, and the findings may be slightly skewed unless we get some snow in the forecast for the demo ride - any long track is going to handle like crap on cement.

 

[climbmax]

2-2016's arrived in Ktown today. We are prepping them with boost for all to enjoy.....when the snow returns. The people who yanked them over couldn't believe how easy they rolled onto their inner ski.....one handed on the floor. Just like......get this........a current 2 stroke mountain sled. They have come a long way. I know you may not believe us........so come try for yourself. What you got to loose ?
Cheers
RS

 

[sc800]

2-2016's arrived in Ktown today. We are prepping them with boost for all to enjoy.....when the snow returns. The people who yanked them over couldn't believe how easy they rolled onto their inner ski.....one handed on the floor. Just like......get this........a current 2 stroke mountain sled. They have come a long way. I know you may not believe us........so come try for yourself. What you got to loose ?
Cheers
RS

What dealership?

 

[NosRX1]

Really Considering making my next sled a Viper seeing and hearing some great things from them!!

 

[06 Dragon]

Will this new front end be available and be able to adapt to the 2014 and 2015 Vipers?

 

[Modman]

Will this new front end be available and be able to adapt to the 2014 and 2015 Vipers?

It looks like the spindle and the a-arm geometry was the only thing that changed, so bulkhead mounts all look to be the same from the pics so.......I think so?

 

[climbmax]

What dealership?

Kelowna Yamaha. They will be there a few days and then when the snow flys on our Demo rig running around the Province.

 

[climbmax]

It looks like the spindle and the a-arm geometry was the only thing that changed, so bulkhead mounts all look to be the same from the pics so.......I think so?

As much as we would love to sell you a new sled....I really doubt the bulkhead was changed at this point. So likely

 

[Summitric]

Too bad they didn't make a 2 stroker for the mountains anymore.... Really liked my mountain max, especially for reliability. Not fussy about having to ad a turbo to a 4stroke, just to make it uber competitive in the hills, these days. Why not a yammie 800ho 2stroke with a 174x3"?? Disappointing to say the least

 

[crazy_cappa]

Keep us updated with demo days, really want to try one. Was just wondering about the fuel, is that stage 1mpi running on straight 91?

 

[climbmax]

Keep us updated with demo days, really want to try one. Was just wondering about the fuel, is that stage 1mpi running on straight 91?

Mountain Power Tour will go ahead the day we get decent precip in BC. And yes the Factory Turbo is approved on pump premium. Its fun to ride.

 

[T-team]

Mountain Power Tour will go ahead the day we get decent precip in BC. And yes the Factory Turbo is approved on pump premium. Its fun to ride.

If I get one.. Can we be friends again?

 

[Catman10]

You can dress a pig up in a suit and it is still a pig, how come everyone is so nice about the yammies but you talk about a polaris and the ski doo guys bash so hard that it is borderline cyborbullying and heaven forbid you bring up the t3 flaws. Here is the thing, Yamaha needs a narrow front end cuz they are still HEAVY, yes they are close to the others in weight but it is front end heavy when you ride one and it is an undeniable fact coupled with the low factory horsepower they simply aren't a contender in stock form. They also have issues that may have been addressed such as the oiling issues while climbing and I have heard that they also spill oil out of the tank when they are upside down as well as reverse problems and guys having to get the helli ride because of it. I brought up these problems before and people told me that they have been addressed but still I hear about the same problems on other forums and from guys that own them that don't mind being honest. That being said they are a fun machine with a turbo and are great for hill climbing with years of turbo technology, probably second to none but the 2 stroke turbos are every bit as fast with a lighter chassis and way more fun in the trees plus the bonus of not being absolutely wasted at the end of the day from fighting that little extra weight all day long. Bash me now people but my money is still not Yamaha bound for now but I will say that when it comes to buying a 4 stoke machine I do believe they will figure out the right chassis before all the other brands once they decide to make some bold changes, if they can get 4 stoke engine within 5 pounds of a 2 smoke there won't be a argument from many. Any INTELLEGENT opinions out there?

 

[06yamahaapex]

I had an apex and yes I will admit I was exhausted at the end of the day but not one bit tired with the viper. I kept my 2014 summit X 163 just in case the viper wasn't for me but I can honestly say that I have not used it once this year. The viper has ran flawless so far. I have rolled it over a couple times and not one bit of oil comes out of it. The steep climb oil issue has also been addressed. The reverse issue was fixed in 2014. Keep trying though Catman10.

You can dress a pig up in a suit and it is still a pig, how come everyone is so nice about the yammies but you talk about a polaris and the ski doo guys bash so hard that it is borderline cyborbullying and heaven forbid you bring up the t3 flaws. Here is the thing, Yamaha needs a narrow front end cuz they are still HEAVY, yes they are close to the others in weight but it is front end heavy when you ride one and it is an undeniable fact coupled with the low factory horsepower they simply aren't a contender in stock form. They also have issues that may have been addressed such as the oiling issues while climbing and I have heard that they also spill oil out of the tank when they are upside down as well as reverse problems and guys having to get the helli ride because of it. I brought up these problems before and people told me that they have been addressed but still I hear about the same problems on other forums and from guys that own them that don't mind being honest. That being said they are a fun machine with a turbo and are great for hill climbing with years of turbo technology, probably second to none but the 2 stroke turbos are every bit as fast with a lighter chassis and way more fun in the trees plus the bonus of not being absolutely wasted at the end of the day from fighting that little extra weight all day long. Bash me now people but my money is still not Yamaha bound for now but I will say that when it comes to buying a 4 stoke machine I do believe they will figure out the right chassis before all the other brands once they decide to make some bold changes, if they can get 4 stoke engine within 5 pounds of a 2 smoke there won't be a argument from many. Any INTELLEGENT opinions out there?

 

[LBZ]

You can dress a pig up in a suit and it is still a pig, how come everyone is so nice about the yammies but you talk about a polaris and the ski doo guys bash so hard that it is borderline cyborbullying and heaven forbid you bring up the t3 flaws. Here is the thing, Yamaha needs a narrow front end cuz they are still HEAVY, yes they are close to the others in weight but it is front end heavy when you ride one and it is an undeniable fact coupled with the low factory horsepower they simply aren't a contender in stock form. They also have issues that may have been addressed such as the oiling issues while climbing and I have heard that they also spill oil out of the tank when they are upside down as well as reverse problems and guys having to get the helli ride because of it. I brought up these problems before and people told me that they have been addressed but still I hear about the same problems on other forums and from guys that own them that don't mind being honest. That being said they are a fun machine with a turbo and are great for hill climbing with years of turbo technology, probably second to none but the 2 stroke turbos are every bit as fast with a lighter chassis and way more fun in the trees plus the bonus of not being absolutely wasted at the end of the day from fighting that little extra weight all day long. Bash me now people but my money is still not Yamaha bound for now but I will say that when it comes to buying a 4 stoke machine I do believe they will figure out the right chassis before all the other brands once they decide to make some bold changes, if they can get 4 stoke engine within 5 pounds of a 2 smoke there won't be a argument from many. Any INTELLEGENT opinions out there?

I will agree with you about the low factory HP and it needs boost, but according to everyone I have talked to and the forums I have been reading the oil problems with the MPI kit have been fixed, reverse was fixed awhile back, and everyone says once you put the boost on it doesn't feel any heavier than any other light sled out there although some say the poo is still a bit more nimble. Also as far as being tired at the end of the day, I haven't heard anyone complain about that with the new Viper chassis. A Nytro or Apex sure but not the Viper. And the new front end is going to make it even better. Fun factor is relative to the rider and the snow conditions for the most part.

No it's not your 2 stroke and the power/torque curve is way different, but with the reliability factor it's a tough sled to beat. I am going to try a new poo and the new '16 viper with the narrow front end and then make a choice between those two and the new Doo for my next sled.

One thing I have found is the Yammy guys are about as honest as they come. They make no bones about the fact 4s is heavier, and they are usually the first to point out and also fix the flaws. Keep in mind, there are 3 more years of changes coming from Yamaha. Who knows, maybe a stock form hp boost and an all Yamaha chassis is in the works......

 

[Clode]

I would like to see the engine from the improved stock hillclimber yamaha has running around down south, if what I read is true they have 2 seasons of racing on the engines and I bet they make 160+ hp, I have a turbo and would like a NA 4-smoke with decent HP as well and ride it stock, use the turbo for deep days and the stocker for harder snow conditions

 

[Catman10]

Good to hear the oil issue was adressed, i heard that the oilpans had to be changed out to fix this and i am sure not everyone has got this done yet and that could be the issue. I am not slamming the yammies, i quite like them and have spent time on a viper, its just not the all around sled for me, I would just like some honest feedback on these machines from people who have tried one. In the last couple of years i was thinking there should be a bigger presence of vipers on the hills but I can honestly say that I see very few and none are still stock. Maybe i am blinded by the sea of yellow t3s and cant see the yammies! I have owned a turboed yamaha rx1 and it was such a pig that I am very leary about buying a heavy sled again. I also have ridden every new model in hopes that they finally got it and the viper is the closest yamaha has got but still not enough for me or my riding buddies to buy one. I think a couple years of advancements and they will be there but yammie fans have been saying that since the introduction of the rx1..........

 

[Clode]

Good to hear the oil issue was adressed, i heard that the oilpans had to be changed out to fix this and i am sure not everyone has got this done yet and that could be the issue. I am not slamming the yammies, i quite like them and have spent time on a viper, its just not the all around sled for me, I would just like some honest feedback on these machines from people who have tried one. In the last couple of years i was thinking there should be a bigger presence of vipers on the hills but I can honestly say that I see very few and none are still stock. Maybe i am blinded by the sea of yellow t3s and cant see the yammies! I have owned a turboed yamaha rx1 and it was such a pig that I am very leary about buying a heavy sled again. I also have ridden every new model in hopes that they finally got it and the viper is the closest yamaha has got but still not enough for me or my riding buddies to buy one. I think a couple years of advancements and they will be there but yammie fans have been saying that since the introduction of the rx1..........

comparing the RX-1 to a Viper is like comparing the RT1000 to the T-3