Wiegele Family is OUT

[maxwell]

Probably doesn’t change anything for us but looks like they are selling the entire operation



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[snopro]

Trade one anti sledder probably for another. We will see I guess

 

[lilduke]

Weigle was a family owned operation and this is a huge corperation. Good or bad, who knows.

Is what it is.

 

[MP Kid]

Both anti sledder mentality….

This is not good news for that area.

Stayed for years at a little place south of golden. A delivery guy for CMH always stayed over the night before his scheduled drop off of supplies at the helicopter pad right across the road. Had a few discussions with the fellow over a beer in the lounge. He was always careful about choosing his words, but the distain he felt towards “Motorsports” was obvious …. He couldn’t see that the helicopter had gross amounts of emissions. Just that snowmobiles were not good for the area and that they made noise.

 

[snopro]

Yes it’s a hypocritical ideology that the left lives under. Don’t emit emissions but it’s alright if I do. They should look in a mirror when they say that but sadly they still wouldn’t see it.

 

[plio7]

may be worse with a bigger cooperation and more money backing it....

 

[Caper11]

may be worse with a bigger cooperation and more money backing it....

I was thinking the exact same.


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[Bnorth]

I don't think the attitude toward other users can be any worse than it was with the Wiegle family. CMH has a lot more experience in managing multiple stakeholders.

 

[snoflake]

A large group from Colorado is not a good thing for sledders. Colorado is the new California.

 

[HighSpeedLowDrag]

What does an operation like that pay in tenure costs to the British Columbia government?

In other words when I looked into a trip the price seemed out of line with what a helicopter charter and a room ought to cost and the rest was a bribe to the officials to prevent us from snowmobiling in that area.

 

[pano-dude]

What does an operation like that pay in tenure costs to the British Columbia government?

In other words when I looked into a trip the price seemed out of line with what a helicopter charter and a room ought to cost and the rest was a bribe to the officials to prevent us from snowmobiling in that area.

I think they pay a per guest cost to the government for the use of the land.
The cost of a heli holiday is expensive, but you forgot the factor in cost of a guide, first class food and being in a remote location.
Was talking with a buddy who works for CMH last night and one guest spent 3.4 million last year with them and that was just heli time, not including booze and lodging.
He is over 70 and has racked up over a million vertical feet in all the years he has been a customer.

 

[HighSpeedLowDrag]

I think they pay a per guest cost to the government for the use of the land.
The cost of a heli holiday is expensive, but you forgot the factor in cost of a guide, first class food and being in a remote location.
Was talking with a buddy who works for CMH last night and one guest spent 3.4 million last year with them and that was just heli time, not including booze and lodging.
He is over 70 and has racked up over a million vertical feet in all the years he has been a customer.

That sounds like something Kermit could have done.

 

[Bnorth]

What does an operation like that pay in tenure costs to the British Columbia government?

In other words when I looked into a trip the price seemed out of line with what a helicopter charter and a room ought to cost and the rest was a bribe to the officials to prevent us from snowmobiling in that area.

I don't know how recreation tenure works but I have been involved in other tenure types and it is typically an annual rent fee that is fairly small compared to the value gained by the tenure. Ie. there was a tenure that was sold for $60M and annual rent on it was under $200k/year.

 

[MP Kid]

I think they pay a per guest cost to the government for the use of the land.
The cost of a heli holiday is expensive, but you forgot the factor in cost of a guide, first class food and being in a remote location.
Was talking with a buddy who works for CMH last night and one guest spent 3.4 million last year with them and that was just heli time, not including booze and lodging.
He is over 70 and has racked up over a million vertical feet in all the years he has been a customer.

I don’t care how much money a single customer spent, doesn’t mean it’s right that one business and one activity should be able to dictate the use of an entire area.
This is elitism at its peak… and reeks of a long flawed and corrupt system.

 

[pano-dude]

I don’t care how much money a single customer spent, doesn’t mean it’s right that one business and one activity should be able to dictate the use of an entire area.
This is elitism at its peak… and reeks of a long flawed and corrupt system.

Unless the area is designated as non motorized there is nothing stopping sledders from using the area also. Tenure only restricts other businesses from using the area and generating revenue off it.

I don't like heli ops keeping me out of areas either but there is lots of terrain in BC to explore and I respect their operations. In my area they shut down in March so we ride their tenures then.

 

[MP Kid]

Unless the area is designated as non motorized there is nothing stopping sledders from using the area also. Tenure only restricts other businesses from using the area and generating revenue off it.

I don't like heli ops keeping me out of areas either but there is lots of terrain in BC to explore and I respect their operations. In my area they shut down in March so we ride their tenures then.

Thanks….
I understand and agree with your statement. I also share your sentiments regarding respecting tenure and rules. I have been a member of my local club for most of my life. Been riding many areas of AB/BC/Montana for years. Pay my trail pass, enjoy meeting/chatting/riding with others. I feel like I represent the norm of western Canadian snowmobilers. Ride a little prairie when we can, enjoy traveling west when time permits (and when kids hockey doesn’t dominate the schedule). Eat, sleep, fuel, drinks, local parts store (made a few trips to Lordco) dealerships, pools, pubs, even take some days out and ski locally. Adding to the local economy… because I appreciate that its there to support my recreational activities.

What I don’t care for is how some of these businesses (like CMH) seem to have “leverage” over the regulatory body and always end up with the majority of the best areas for themselves. Yes, BC is very large. When you look at a map, there is tons of backcountry. But when you start narrowing it down to the best areas, the heli-ski industry has an unfair advantage. I’m not convinced that this industry has the same “give vs take” that the snowmobile industry does…

How much of that one customer’s $3.4mil made its way to the hands of the local community??

Just my 2c

 

[Modman]

Unless the area is designated as non motorized there is nothing stopping sledders from using the area also. Tenure only restricts other businesses from using the area and generating revenue off it.

I don't like heli ops keeping me out of areas either but there is lots of terrain in BC to explore and I respect their operations. In my area they shut down in March so we ride their tenures then.

Not fully true, some tenures do grant their holders exclusive rights to an area. Its not the norm but they are out there and its up to us to know.

Almost never believe anything a tenure holder a tells you (I'm not broad stroking them all bad but the bad ones know who they are). They will post signs with inaccurate or misleading information (usually a "closure" notice) in an attempt to keep all other users out of that area.

If you think Wiggles will be better under a bigger name you better think again. Its a constant struggle with this parent company moving signs or incorrectly signing areas to expand territory. They've tried to kick us out of open areas after the tenure expired. I also have no issues with other user groups or sharing terrain and will wait until the closures are over - theres lots of open stuff to hit. Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect. Try to land on top of my sled and cut my head off again and you're going to find out what happens when a helmet is thrown into your rotor blades.

Chatter is a great example of how both groups can co-exist. However, lots of these other operators are out there for the sole purpose of profiteering from total domination of the landscape and they will stop at nothing to keep you out.

 

[adamg]

The Mustang cat-ski operation is ran by friendly people. Hopefully the new company here can be like Mustang.

 

[snopro]

Not fully true, some tenures do grant their holders exclusive rights to an area. Its not the norm but they are out there and its up to us to know.

Almost never believe anything a tenure holder a tells you (I'm not broad stroking them all bad but the bad ones know who they are). They will post signs with inaccurate or misleading information (usually a "closure" notice) in an attempt to keep all other users out of that area.

If you think Wiggles will be better under a bigger name you better think again. Its a constant struggle with this parent company moving signs or incorrectly signing areas to expand territory. They've tried to kick us out of open areas after the tenure expired. I also have no issues with other user groups or sharing terrain and will wait until the closures are over - theres lots of open stuff to hit. Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect. Try to land on top of my sled and cut my head off again and you're going to find out what happens when a helmet is thrown into your rotor blades.

Chatter is a great example of how both groups can co-exist. However, lots of these other operators are out there for the sole purpose of profiteering from total domination of the landscape and they will stop at nothing to keep you out.

They tried to decapitate you with the rotor blades? That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen!

 

[RGM]

What does an operation like that pay in tenure costs to the British Columbia government?

In other words when I looked into a trip the price seemed out of line with what a helicopter charter and a room ought to cost and the rest was a bribe to the officials to prevent us from snowmobiling in that area.

Last time I knew it was 2 whole dollars per day per client plus an annual fee. Sled tour companies were paying 10 per client day.