what's up with Arctic Cat... outlook doesn't look great?

[Mike270412]

Not sure about Larry,but I'm not about to quit day drinking!

No burr Larry. You vote for Bernier. And you keep stating that BRP is funded by the government. I'll let the forum judge you on those 2 comments. Lol. And for gawd sakes, slow down on the day drinking.

 

[Caper11]

no, not sure i want to lol but tell me whats the deal with that?

Long story short, Quebec pays half the tax when a RRSP withdrawal is made, compared to the rest of canada.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...ing-withdrawals/tax-rates-on-withdrawals.html

 

[AreWeThereYet]

Long story short, Quebec pays half the tax when a RRSP withdrawal is made, compared to the rest of canada.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...ing-withdrawals/tax-rates-on-withdrawals.html

That's because they got the money from the west

 

[getzcold]

Think my dad said the first cat he bought was from Sears. This was in the 70s I think.

 

[skegpro]

Quebec buying oil from 3rd world dictators instead of Alberta, standing in the way of pipeline and still wanting 10billion a year from Alberta, now that isn't petty at all....

**** quebec

100% Bull****

 

[Cat401]

The irony with cat is laughable... For BRP to become the #1 producer of recreational products in the entire universe as we all know today, They HAD to break away from mother Bombardier in order to gain independent thinking and free will to pursue what products they wanted to produce in a competitive marketplace. Their engineers and management teams were being stifled at every turn to what they could do or not do under Bombardier. They never had the flexibility in a changing market. It was the best decision they ever made. Once they gained their independence It was sink or swim. Their motivation and passion in the industry is what made them what they are today.

Moving on to Arctic cat... They HAD independence and freedom but through poor management and a product line that nobody wanted they slowly bled out over time. Simply put they failed in a free market. Now they have their overlord Textron pulling the Arctic cat strings like a puppet in some bumbling (sic) display. For many cat employees that stayed on it is now the beginning of the end for their independence. Their engineers won't be able to make a rivit change on a sled without checking in with the 15 managers above them making them non competitive. The Textron wallet will give them a budget that will be woefully too small as each rec divisions fights over the crumbs. Textron will (pay attention now snowchuk) SUBSIDIZE the Arctic cat division just as an other toy in their sandbox.

LAFAO......"breaking away from mother Bombardier" as you wrote must have been REAL TOUGH with literally millions in their bank account. Remember, much of that seed money that BRP had to "strive for their independence" was a in fact a collection of many years of govt handouts....taxpayer money. Deny that fact all you want but Bombardier lived on taxpayer money....still do......BRP benefited form that money while other sled manufacturers died a slow death

Sure, its true, they never needed another govt handout since they became independent but they sure had their share under mother Bombardier and when you break away with millions...life ain't so tough, is it?

There were many sled manufacturer's who did not survive the 80's....Cat did ....barely, even failed a few times... but somehow kept going...keeping ideas(like the Alpha monorail) on the shelf because running on a shoe string budget left little to develop into the marketplace.......You want to talk about passion...go read stories on the like of Roger Skime and others who rode through the tough years with Arctic Cat. They couldn't ride on the backs of a mother corporation who was kept afloat by repeated tax payer bailouts during the tough recession that took down every sled manufacturer except for the ones you see today.

BRP has done very well since breaking free in 2003. I wonder if they would have survived if they had to break free in the 80's (with no tax payer money in their pockets)???

are Cat days over? Who knows...I doubt it....but we won't know till it happens....they make one of the best sleds on the market right now....they are just coming into their own with the new suspension...awesome new engine, etc. I can't see a company buy a company then kill it in a year......I doubt they bought Cat for just the SxS's.

And to think guys like Roger Skime and others were pushed out because of cutbacks?? Hell no...those guys were there since the 70's. Guys like Ron Bergman who spearheaded the Firecat....these guys are all in their 60's and beyond. It's very common when a takeover happens and the new company owners wants to make changes...they want engineers and upper management who are going to commit to be there for many years to drive this change. That is why you see many long term employees retire when new owners take over a company. I'm sure Textron is no different....they're making changes...the old guard says "its time to pass the reigns on to the next generation" I highly doubt that Arctic Cat does not have some young up-and coming engineers who trained under Skime and Bergman and and Eide and Spalding and are ready to take the reigns ...and the company...into the next chapter.

I'm kind of excited of whats around the corner for Cat and the sled business.

........and.......lol, if that means a shutdown of Cat sleds....well, then we will all move on and fall in love with who's left........they all make great sleds these days......but I am doubtful (hopeful) that that won't happen

 

[Summitric]

Has anyone seen any new Arctic Cats at the dealerships yet? hmmmmm

 

[snochuk]

Has anyone seen any new Arctic Cats at the dealerships yet? hmmmmm

Yes there are snowcheks in at Argyl and Alberta Cycle.
One on the floor at Argyl.
Argyl salesman told me only noncurrent sleds at that shop this winter.
Can not confirm anywhere else but ill be picking up SxS at Alberta Cycle next week (Broke it, oops) so will have a look again.
The snow checks will all be coming fear not.

A lot of dealers reportedly got "extra" snowchecks.
To do this though dealers have to accept warranty and cost carrying until sled is sold.

 

[Bnorth]

Nice story but ya you are just not getting it.

Yous Truly
Mr. Uncanadian

All the large aerospace companies get gov't subsidies. Boeing, Airbus, Embraer. Bombardier is no different.

Ever look at the interest on the first 10000 of a rrsp in quebec, compared to the rest of the country?

Ever see how often they balance their provincial budget? Pretty much always in spite of their additional social programs and it's all on the back of Western Canada.

 

[lilduke]

wonder if bombardier will pay any of that money back after the sale?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IwB3oECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2aMiStCj-CeYx5Ycn-3h6c


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2Nbav9yp2M8QMTPt9XfB6k

 

[jpmez69]

LAFAO......"breaking away from mother Bombardier" as you wrote must have been REAL TOUGH with literally millions in their bank account. Remember, much of that seed money that BRP had to "strive for their independence" was a in fact a collection of many years of govt handouts....taxpayer money. Deny that fact all you want but Bombardier lived on taxpayer money....still do......BRP benefited form that money while other sled manufacturers died a slow death

Sure, its true, they never needed another govt handout since they became independent but they sure had their share under mother Bombardier and when you break away with millions...life ain't so tough, is it?

There were many sled manufacturer's who did not survive the 80's....Cat did ....barely, even failed a few times... but somehow kept going...keeping ideas(like the Alpha monorail) on the shelf because running on a shoe string budget left little to develop into the marketplace.......You want to talk about passion...go read stories on the like of Roger Skime and others who rode through the tough years with Arctic Cat. They couldn't ride on the backs of a mother corporation who was kept afloat by repeated tax payer bailouts during the tough recession that took down every sled manufacturer except for the ones you see today.

BRP has done very well since breaking free in 2003. I wonder if they would have survived if they had to break free in the 80's (with no tax payer money in their pockets)???

are Cat days over? Who knows...I doubt it....but we won't know till it happens....they make one of the best sleds on the market right now....they are just coming into their own with the new suspension...awesome new engine, etc. I can't see a company buy a company then kill it in a year......I doubt they bought Cat for just the SxS's.

And to think guys like Roger Skime and others were pushed out because of cutbacks?? Hell no...those guys were there since the 70's. Guys like Ron Bergman who spearheaded the Firecat....these guys are all in their 60's and beyond. It's very common when a takeover happens and the new company owners wants to make changes...they want engineers and upper management who are going to commit to be there for many years to drive this change. That is why you see many long term employees retire when new owners take over a company. I'm sure Textron is no different....they're making changes...the old guard says "its time to pass the reigns on to the next generation" I highly doubt that Arctic Cat does not have some young up-and coming engineers who trained under Skime and Bergman and and Eide and Spalding and are ready to take the reigns ...and the company...into the next chapter.

I'm kind of excited of whats around the corner for Cat and the sled business.

........and.......lol, if that means a shutdown of Cat sleds....well, then we will all move on and fall in love with who's left........they all make great sleds these days......but I am doubtful (hopeful) that that won't happen

Well said..... My point in all this is how a few individuals on this forum don't or can't see the benefits on gov funded corperations as in Bombardier. There are many others also. There's no denial that they gained from gov funding over the years. But that's what it takes to develope the aerospace and transportation industry. As a Canadian company on the world stage it's just good business to be in on and to continue inovating. The U.S pours billions into gov sponsored corperations every year with at times little or no return initially but for the most part gain in the long term. Canada could not ever match that kind of capital spending and that's why it's even more important to support our corperations and be less critical of them. Are they perfect no... but it's what we have. These individuals IMO would want to see it tank because it's not in our backyard and we can go back to manufacturing fence posts and pots and pans. Alberta needs more diversification but that's another topic.

As for Arctic Cat I do hope that the brand will benefit from Textron's cash injection and be around for a long time. It will only spurs on the competition and advances the sport that much more.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Well said..... My point in all this is how a few individuals on this forum don't or can't see the benefits on gov funded corperations as in Bombardier. There are many others also. There's no denial that they gained from gov funding over the years. But that's what it takes to develope the aerospace and transportation industry. As a Canadian company on the world stage it's just good business to be in on and to continue inovating. The U.S pours billions into gov sponsored corperations every year with at times little or no return initially but for the most part gain in the long term. Canada could not ever match that kind of capital spending and that's why it's even more important to support our corperations and be less critical of them. Are they perfect no... but it's what we have. These individuals IMO would want to see it tank because it's not in our backyard and we can go back to manufacturing fence posts and pots and pans. Alberta needs more diversification but that's another topic.

As for Arctic Cat I do hope that the brand will benefit from Textron's cash injection and be around for a long time. It will only spurs on the competition and advances the sport that much more.

There is a big difference though between government funding where the government expects to see a return or a product versus continuous bailouts so a company can stay afloat.

 

[imdoo'n]

and where the government and money receiver conspire to hide info on paybacks if there ever were any?


sure is grand to have access to vast amounts of free money.

 

[lilduke]

a few subsidies to Trudeau's buddies might be an easier pill to swollow if they weren't running massive deficit's and trying to clobber our profitable industries (natural resources) full time.

 

[kanedog]

I am not a politics kinda guy. Haha I have lower blood pressure!

 

[lilduke]

I am not a politics kinda guy. Haha I have lower blood pressure!

thats probably best, let david susuki and the kids figure it all out. haha

 

[Cat401]

There is a big difference though between government funding where the government expects to see a return or a product versus continuous bailouts so a company can stay afloat.

We all know that the Quebec based company we speak of would have not been given all the tax payer funding if it was located in some other provinces....

 

[Steve D]

How about you doo heads go start your own thread about how much you hate quebec and hate yourselves for buying skidoos. This is a thread for serious discussion about serious problems, like where us cat guys are we going to buy new underwear when our nice green shorts are faded, full of holes and have just one too many stains to keep wearing on a daily basis.

 

[kanedog]

How about you doo heads go start your own thread about how much you hate quebec and hate yourselves for buying skidoos. This is a thread for serious discussion about serious problems, like where us cat guys are we going to buy new underwear when our nice green shorts are faded, full of holes and have just one too many stains to keep wearing on a daily basis.

Yea, knock that shet off! Hahaha

 

[imdoo'n]

peeps were getting triggered-

just never know what will get someone mad, lighten up it's the internet!