Ubiquiti camers/home setup - experience?

[takethebounce]

Anyone have experience with Ubiquiti or other PoE home camera systems? I want to upgrade my cheapo wifo cameras to a PoE system and I am not overly interested in the big box store stuff like Swann/Lorex.

I have looked into the Ubiquiti cameras (G3) as they have very positive reviews but I want to make sure I have a good understanding of the equipment I need to acquire to go along with them to function as I want.

Firstly I am looking at 4 cameras to start, also the Unifi NVR to store recordings as I do not want to run a home computer 24/7 and I do not have one anyways, also the NVR seems space and power consumption friendly. Second I need some sort of Unifi switch to power the cameras and allow me to hook up and power the NVR as well as the Cloud Switch which I need to access the system remotely (or so I hope)

What else am I missing? I basically want to be able to record either all the time or on motion, store the video and be able to access the cameras through phone app and hoping I can get mobile alerts. I haven't found a straight forward user non techy guide that basically identifies what pieces I need to make it work.

Thanks

 

[MP Kid]

I am very interested in this as well...
please share when you find out more!!

 

[AreWeThereYet]

I have a Blink XT2 system.

 

[takethebounce]

I have a Blink XT2 system.

The Blink are wifi not POE. Nice as a little standalone product

 

[Tchetek]

I’m not familiar with that brand but happy with the hikvision equipment I installed.

 

[takethebounce]

I’m not familiar with that brand but happy with the hikvision equipment I installed.

I did look at the HIKvision, are yours POE? Do you find the email alerts are timely? That’s the biggest complaint I have seen.

 

[Tchetek]

I did look at the HIKvision, are yours POE? Do you find the email alerts are timely? That’s the biggest complaint I have seen.

Yes mine are POE. I have shatty rural internet so regardless of what system it’s hard to live stream.

Alerts come through but viewing live can struggle when speeds are slow from our Telus dumb hub.

Very impressed with picture quality and the PTZ cameras.

 

[Steve D]

Problem with Hikvision is you *really* want to make sure you lock them down, don't leave default passwords and such. They are notorious for magically joining botnets and such. I know they get decent reviews but they are the epitome of "made in China". Security is their big fail. Edit: I shouldn't say they are automatically the worst, Ubiquiti has been hit with some security flaws over the years too. Everything should be locked down and default passwords should never be used anywhere. It's just that some of Hikvisions flaws almost appeared to be intentional backdoors.

Ubiquiti is pretty good. The only problem I have with them is they don't play nice with others. Eg., if you want to replace a camera a few years from now, you better hope Ubiquiti is still making them as their NVR won't take cameras from other brands. I say this because Ubiquiti has already burned me with that, their first generation Aircam's went out of support after a couple years even though they function just fine. I think their new product line is overall better and they might have learned a lesson, I hope. I bring this up because just like the transition from their Aircam line to the Unifi Video line, they have a new controller in the works called Unifi Protect. Right now it's backwards compatible, so there may be hope...

Right, so tinfoil-hat worrying aside, let's say you stick with the Unifi Video and get the 4 cameras. What switch do you get to power them?

Well, it'd seem the easy answer would be a Unifi Switch (say, the USG-8-60 or USG-8-150). The problem is, you need to use the Unifi software controller to manage that switch. That means something like the UniFi cloudkey. That opens the door to maybe putting in some Unifi wifi AP's if desired but it's also a lot of overkill if you don't need all that other stuff. If you did go all in on Ubiquiti for all aspects of your home network, I'd recommend a cloudkey gen2+ which gets you both the wifi controller and the NVR (with the aforementioned Unifi Protect software) all in one.

If you aren't into going whole-hog into the Unifi networking line, I'd recommend the Ubiquiti Edgeswitch 8 150w (model ES-8-150 I think). It's managed by a simple web gui, very basic, and all 8 ports can do POE.

Config-wise, POE switches are usually auto-sensing. I think all of the their new cameras are 48v POE so work with autosensing, the old 24v cameras were not and you manually had to turn ports to that setting which was a great way to accidentally fry something if you forgot and plugged a non-poe device into it.

Finally, use good cable. If your cameras are outside, don't just use ****ty indoor cable. UV and weather can rot it, and a couple years later your POE switch is fried because the cable was a hose of water to the switch.

I'm not an expert on the actual use of the unifi video systems, I just install other Ubiquiti products. I have been meaning to install something like what you're doing at my own home one day though.

 

[nast70]

What he said ^^^^
btw, what is POE?

 

[meierjn]

What he said ^^^^
btw, what is POE?

Power over Ethernet. Your end device recieves its power over the communication cable.

 

[mountaincatab]

Ubiquiti is a great product lineq

 

[takethebounce]

Problem with Hikvision is you *really* want to make sure you lock them down, don't leave default passwords and such. They are notorious for magically joining botnets and such. I know they get decent reviews but they are the epitome of "made in China". Security is their big fail. Edit: I shouldn't say they are automatically the worst, Ubiquiti has been hit with some security flaws over the years too. Everything should be locked down and default passwords should never be used anywhere. It's just that some of Hikvisions flaws almost appeared to be intentional backdoors.

Ubiquiti is pretty good. The only problem I have with them is they don't play nice with others. Eg., if you want to replace a camera a few years from now, you better hope Ubiquiti is still making them as their NVR won't take cameras from other brands. I say this because Ubiquiti has already burned me with that, their first generation Aircam's went out of support after a couple years even though they function just fine. I think their new product line is overall better and they might have learned a lesson, I hope. I bring this up because just like the transition from their Aircam line to the Unifi Video line, they have a new controller in the works called Unifi Protect. Right now it's backwards compatible, so there may be hope...

Right, so tinfoil-hat worrying aside, let's say you stick with the Unifi Video and get the 4 cameras. What switch do you get to power them?

Well, it'd seem the easy answer would be a Unifi Switch (say, the USG-8-60 or USG-8-150). The problem is, you need to use the Unifi software controller to manage that switch. That means something like the UniFi cloudkey. That opens the door to maybe putting in some Unifi wifi AP's if desired but it's also a lot of overkill if you don't need all that other stuff. If you did go all in on Ubiquiti for all aspects of your home network, I'd recommend a cloudkey gen2+ which gets you both the wifi controller and the NVR (with the aforementioned Unifi Protect software) all in one.

If you aren't into going whole-hog into the Unifi networking line, I'd recommend the Ubiquiti Edgeswitch 8 150w (model ES-8-150 I think). It's managed by a simple web gui, very basic, and all 8 ports can do POE.

Config-wise, POE switches are usually auto-sensing. I think all of the their new cameras are 48v POE so work with autosensing, the old 24v cameras were not and you manually had to turn ports to that setting which was a great way to accidentally fry something if you forgot and plugged a non-poe device into it.

Finally, use good cable. If your cameras are outside, don't just use ****ty indoor cable. UV and weather can rot it, and a couple years later your POE switch is fried because the cable was a hose of water to the switch.

I'm not an expert on the actual use of the unifi video systems, I just install other Ubiquiti products. I have been meaning to install something like what you're doing at my own home one day though.

So basically you listed everything I have somewhat settled on for my little server. In the last few days of searching I have moved away from the standalone NVR and onto the Cloud Key Gen 2 +, along with the 8 port 150w and four G3 cameras which should be 24v from what I read so not a major issue either way.

I am aware of their proprietary system and am willing to sacrifice potential cross utilization in the future for quality today. Is it overkill? Maybe but for cameras, the CloudKey and switch is roughly $1200 plus cabling and a higher end Swann/Lorex box store product is $800-900 so I think it’s a small price to pay for better quality.

My only hang up right now is wether to stay with the 8 port knowing I will only have two ports for future expansion like you mention AP’s, my house could likely survive with one as it’s a bungalow or maybe additional cameras.

Maybe you can answer this, should I want to add an AP or two can I run them out of one of the other four ports on my cable modem/router with a POE injector? I think they come with a basic one and will the CloudKey be able to control them or do they need to be run off the same switch as the CloudKey?

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Steve D]

You bet, you'd be able to use the existing routers ports. More wires to manage with the POE injector bricks, but you'd have the extra ports if needed. The cloud key can absolutely still control them too, it's all "local" to each other, or "layer 2" in technical parlance. Worst case you could plug a second switch too down the road (into the router though, don't daisy chain!) and it'd all still be controlled by the same Cloudkey.

It's honestly been pretty rare that I've seen many homes need a second AP (especially if the first one is installed up high, in a central location, not in a corner of the basement). But if you have a location not getting good coverage, I'd say the Unifi wireless mesh'ing between AP's works pretty decent too. My last install was an outdoor venue where cable home-runs were basically impossible, so we put in a second AP and it worked very well.

That said, they might have more security minded products coming too. At a tradeshow a coworker of mine saw them displaying things like doorbell-camera which, I'll be honest, just might send me down the UniFi rabbit hole at home finally. Being able to control wifi and home security from one or two apps on your phone, it's pretty damn slick.

Quick side note: This might go without saying but I've seen it a bunch - make sure to turn off the wifi in the modem/router if you use the UniFi AP's. It's just interference and confusion down the road if you don't (since Unifi can't control it).

 

[takethebounce]

You bet, you'd be able to use the existing routers ports. More wires to manage with the POE injector bricks, but you'd have the extra ports if needed. The cloud key can absolutely still control them too, it's all "local" to each other, or "layer 2" in technical parlance. Worst case you could plug a second switch too down the road (into the router though, don't daisy chain!) and it'd all still be controlled by the same Cloudkey.

It's honestly been pretty rare that I've seen many homes need a second AP (especially if the first one is installed up high, in a central location, not in a corner of the basement). But if you have a location not getting good coverage, I'd say the Unifi wireless mesh'ing between AP's works pretty decent too. My last install was an outdoor venue where cable home-runs were basically impossible, so we put in a second AP and it worked very well.

That said, they might have more security minded products coming too. At a tradeshow a coworker of mine saw them displaying things like doorbell-camera which, I'll be honest, just might send me down the UniFi rabbit hole at home finally. Being able to control wifi and home security from one or two apps on your phone, it's pretty damn slick.

Quick side note: This might go without saying but I've seen it a bunch - make sure to turn off the wifi in the modem/router if you use the UniFi AP's. It's just interference and confusion down the road if you don't (since Unifi can't control it).

Awesome. I am not sure I can turn off the wifi from the cable modem but I will look into it. I already run a second router with wifi to expand my wifi coverage so I am used to having two different accesses if it can’t be turned off.

Would you suggest a USG for home use it is it overkill?

For the small difference to stay ahead of potential expansion down the road I am going with the 16 port Poe switch as well since it has the ability to have both passive and active port settings.

 

[Steve D]

The US-8-150 should do both passive and active POE too, but I hear ya about futureproofing, that's a good call.

One thing to note is that passive, despite the name, basically means the port is pumping out 24v all the time, whether the other end wants it or not. If you have any devices that require it, I'd physically label the port so that you don't accidentally plug something else that isn't compatible with 24v or you'll be letting the magic smoke out! And a big note here, if you bought a device that wasn't Ubiquiti but wants 24v, don't assume it will work. Passive POE could have some pins + and some - and another OEM will literally do it the other way around. Passive 24v is proprietary to the device manufacturer. Hell, I've seen incompatible devices from the same damn company over the years.

802.3af is active 48v POE, and is an international standard where power is only applied if it senses that the other end is compatible, and it does it the same for any manufacturer that adheres to the standard. For all us goons who just want to plug things in and make them work, hallelujah!

So, when you mentioned the cameras being 24v, that got me wondering. I knew some of the AP's now were able to handle both 24v passive and 48v active so I did some digging. It looks like all of the G3 cameras can actually do both too. Per the datasheet: 802.3af PoE or 24V Passive PoE. I'm very glad to see everyone moving to 802.3af, but Ubiquiti's approach of doing both right now is really nice for those of us mixing and matching old equipment. So in your case, just leave the ports on active, much safer.

Regarding the cable modem, talk to your ISP. These can have wifi disabled one way or another. If the goon on tech support says no, ask for a supervisor or call back and hope you hit someone more educated.

Is the USG overkill? Hmmm probably yes. Ubiquiti triggers my OCD when I log into controllers and I don't have all the shiny graphs and charts that the USG would provide, but realistically, it probably is overkill unless you know the hows and what's of things inside it. At the end of the day, Unifi really is aimed primarily at commercial use. I'd say that it's most certainly a thing you can do down the road though too.

If you really want it, I'd first ask your ISP if the modem/router they provided could be turned into "just a modem", or they could give you a model that is "just a modem" in the event you wanted to get your own router (aka the USG). Unlike the wifi part, this can be a no, depending on the provider. If you can't have the ISP device bridge across, you'll end up with a router behind a router situation (double-NAT) which can kind of work, but it can also cause all kinds of problems of its own and is really not worth it.

 

[takethebounce]

The US-8-150 should do both passive and active POE too, but I hear ya about futureproofing, that's a good call.

One thing to note is that passive, despite the name, basically means the port is pumping out 24v all the time, whether the other end wants it or not. If you have any devices that require it, I'd physically label the port so that you don't accidentally plug something else that isn't compatible with 24v or you'll be letting the magic smoke out! And a big note here, if you bought a device that wasn't Ubiquiti but wants 24v, don't assume it will work. Passive POE could have some pins + and some - and another OEM will literally do it the other way around. Passive 24v is proprietary to the device manufacturer. Hell, I've seen incompatible devices from the same damn company over the years.

802.3af is active 48v POE, and is an international standard where power is only applied if it senses that the other end is compatible, and it does it the same for any manufacturer that adheres to the standard. For all us goons who just want to plug things in and make them work, hallelujah!

So, when you mentioned the cameras being 24v, that got me wondering. I knew some of the AP's now were able to handle both 24v passive and 48v active so I did some digging. It looks like all of the G3 cameras can actually do both too. Per the datasheet: 802.3af PoE or 24V Passive PoE. I'm very glad to see everyone moving to 802.3af, but Ubiquiti's approach of doing both right now is really nice for those of us mixing and matching old equipment. So in your case, just leave the ports on active, much safer.

Regarding the cable modem, talk to your ISP. These can have wifi disabled one way or another. If the goon on tech support says no, ask for a supervisor or call back and hope you hit someone more educated.

Is the USG overkill? Hmmm probably yes. Ubiquiti triggers my OCD when I log into controllers and I don't have all the shiny graphs and charts that the USG would provide, but realistically, it probably is overkill unless you know the hows and what's of things inside it. At the end of the day, Unifi really is aimed primarily at commercial use. I'd say that it's most certainly a thing you can do down the road though too.

If you really want it, I'd first ask your ISP if the modem/router they provided could be turned into "just a modem", or they could give you a model that is "just a modem" in the event you wanted to get your own router (aka the USG). Unlike the wifi part, this can be a no, depending on the provider. If you can't have the ISP device bridge across, you'll end up with a router behind a router situation (double-NAT) which can kind of work, but it can also cause all kinds of problems of its own and is really not worth it.

Having the Modem put into bridge mode is not an option due to the DVR requiring it unbridged is what I was told when we first got the service as I was looking for improved speeds when using my other router and the wife not having her DVR is not an option lol. They are basically the only high speed service on our semi rural area as well.

You have given me lots to digest. I do understand the passive vs active and I am going to do some more reading on the US-16-150w and how to control/configure the ports so to not run into any “frying” issues as from what I understand that I will be able to manage each individual port or they are all POE+ all the time.

Thanks for providing all your experience as it helps a lot.

 

[mathrulz]

I’ve used a TRENDNet system in the past. Pick from different cameras they have and everything gets wired back to an NVR. The NVR acted as the POE switch as well, and therefore could do all the networking and work with my router for external access. Their app works good for live view, but you can’t see recorded video files from it - need to go to a desktop to view that. Overall seemed to work good though - relatively easy setup, good quality... no complaints really.