These avi paths have released-good to go....

[teamdirt]

Instead of calling these people idiots: why not take the time to help objectively educate them further in their decision making process. Telling people they are idiots isn't going to help them make better

i am not a babysitter. People will figure it out that actions have consequences and accountability. Most people out sledding are adults and have jobs and responsibility. Time to start applying that responsibility to your recreational activities so you don't become a stat.

 

[HRT Offroad]

i am not a babysitter. People will figure it out that actions have consequences and accountability. Most people out sledding are adults and have jobs and responsibility. Time to start applying that responsibility to your recreational activities so you don't become a stat.

If that's truly how you feel...then why are you on here bitching about it? From your response to my post...It's apparent that you don't care that much... Just sayin'

If a veteran forecaster spent a day riding with you and could point 10 bad decisions that you made...would you rather they just kept it quiet?

 

[teamdirt]

If that's truly how you feel...then why are you on here bitching about it? From your response to my post...It's apparent that you don't care that much... Just sayin'

If a veteran forecaster spent a day riding with you and could point 10 bad decisions that you made...would you rather they just kept it quiet?

Firstly-I don't want to read in the paper every other morning about a snowmobiler dying in an avalanche. That's why I posted. Frankly sometimes I feel embarrassed having a sled on my truck because the outside perception of us is not all that great.

Secondly experienced riders express concerns with their group regarding safety and stability. Everyone provides insight which helps develop a better picture and limit risks. So the second part of your thoughts would not apply to an experienced group as everyone is always discussing. Discipline is the hardest thing to learn so it's always good to be out with other experienced riders to kick ur ass back in line when you stray.

 

[HRT Offroad]

Firstly-I don't want to read in the paper every other morning about a snowmobiler dying in an avalanche. That's why I posted. Frankly sometimes I feel embarrassed having a sled on my truck because the outside perception of us is not all that great.

Secondly experienced riders express concerns with their group regarding safety and stability. Everyone provides insight which helps develop a better picture and limit risks. So the second part of your thoughts would not apply to an experienced group as everyone is always discussing.

OK...so you also drive a vehicle I presume? And, I imagine that you read or hear of automobile accidents everyday in the news...does that make you embarrassed to drive a vehicle?

You show a great deal of confidence in your decision making....does this make you a "veteran" and what is your definition of "experienced" (as this appears to be a grey area)? I know a few veterans in the avalanche industry that I believe would fall under your "veteran" category. They are also some of the most humble people I know. They are always learning and never complacent. I look up to these people, because they know that they don't know it all!! And just when you think you do...you get bit...

 

[LID]

There are plenty of experienced sledders around. Lots have taken a good first step in taking an AST course but then do zero additional training or follow up?

How many guys with AST have still never dug a pit? How many have never done a beacon search other than in their course? (No need to chime in with "we search every few trips", you are probably not the problem) how many don't know how to use the CAC website other than colours and pictures?

I'd say teamdirt (who generally spends more days on snow each winter than most do in their life) is sick of that guy who has a day and a half course, with no other knowledge of how snow works other than track speed, paddle size, and t-motion, declaring that terrain is good to go. He then puts himself and his crew in danger, and then ruins the day of others in sight who know the terrain is sketchy, and figure this guy may cause them to have to shovel dead guys out.

This year is a weird year for snow. Ski resorts have had in bounds pockets slide on skiers after throwing 3 bombs on the same pocket to try and set it off.

This year had some pretty low incident numbers for a while but things are happening now and they will continue to. A friend of mine who has backcountry skied for over 25 years and sledded for over 10 just called the rest of the winter off because even veterans are running into surprises and he's had plenty of good time for the year.
Be careful and have fun, make sure your around for next year.

 

[teamdirt]

Ratios and stats: hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of people drive per day with few people dying. Hundreds upon hundreds of sledders get out per week...Warning signs- and special bulletins posted all over media warning of complex conditions and high avalanche conditions. Yet hundreds of hundreds of snowmobilers go out without the proper knowledge and experience and ignore the signs.

I didn't choose to teach or babysit by becoming a guide. So I do not need to be humble to anyone, especially on the intra web.

I never said I know it all, one is an idiot if he stops learning.

Experience comes from the field. I've spent the past 20+ winters chasing snow all over the world and pursuing adventures while logging thousands upon thousands of days in the backcountry in winter. A lot of this Long before they had avalanche reports. Hell they didn't even have internet. No one shared info and there were no sources to obtain snowpack and weather data.

These days people check the avi report-ride a couple days. Get comfortable with the environment and then figure they are experienced. Not so much the case.

In the environment I grew up we forecasted the conditions. They were not provided.

 

[the_real_wild1]

Take no offence to this but to me you sound exactly like the guy you are bitching about. You say you have all this experience and I don't doubt you do but I hear this from every second guy on this board. What makes you different???

 

[HRT Offroad]

I don't think that the intention behind this thread is bad. But, with level of arrogance and ego in which it was delivered...I think the full intent is lost. It sounds like the OP has a great deal of experience, but I'm sure there are plenty of others on this forum that have or surpass that. It just boggles my mind that someone will bitch about something, but not want to help make it better....It's kind of like not voting and then bitching about the elected party. I know for one...If I see someone doing something that I feel is unsafe...I will let them know and give them some reasons why I think they are making a poor choice. I won't just call them an "idiot". Just my.02

 

[teamdirt]

. A friend of mine who has backcountry skied for over 25 years and sledded for over 10 just called the rest of the winter off because even veterans are running into surprises and he's had plenty of good time for the year.
Be careful and have fun, make sure your around for next year.

Funny u say that as I'm sitting on a beach in Central America waiting for the snowpack to hopefully stabilize by end of the month....be in touch when it gets better out there!

Till then margaritas tend to make your posts more entertaining.

Stay safe everyone!

 

[the_real_wild1]

Nice. A warm beach and drinks sound pretty good. Have a good vacation!

 

[kovs]

Not really looking to way weigh in with an opinion on this. A group of 5 of us are planning on coming out to revy tues. Quite cautious b/c of the warnings and results lately.
The ast course has given me a idea what to look for and keep your eyes open. I wouldn't say we are experienced. But rather cautious riders. I don't wanna be a statistic but think there is still lots of relatively low risk terrain to ride in revy on frisby and boulder. Any of the locals or frequent riders care to share their thoughts, were kinda off topic so pm


Sent from my iPhone using

 

[Fatdaddy]

Experience / Knowledge & "Common Sense"

I agree with wild1. I'm getting tired of hearing news reports of "experienced & knowledgeable" sledders getting caught in avalanches. If they were "experienced & knowledgeable" most of them wouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[Fatdaddy]

Well said.......my boys just got their avy training a few months back & the information that they learned is already showing

Instead of calling these people idiots: why not take the time to help objectively educate them further in their decision making process. Telling people they are idiots isn't going to help them make better decisions...

I personally think that the AST courses are great introductory awareness courses and think it's awesome that more and more people are taking them. How people process the information from training is up to them. But instead of running them down - take the time to explain and educate them more.

 

[niner]

Everything that happens in the mountains doesn't end up on s&m. Was talking with a relative yesterday and one of his friends were in a group of 8 or so 2 weeks ago out by revy. Not sure of all the details as this is second hand info and he didn't know all the questions to ask but here's how he told it. They were all going through this area one at a time and when they got through and did a quick head count. They were down one guy. Retraced there steps and came across a slide and found him buried with his bag deployed but unconscious. Got him revived and found his sled 13' down. Very lucky. I don't how much expierance any had but I know they weren't newbies. I think some would fear coming on here and telling there story and getting jumped on and being called "idiots" and everything else that goes along with forum crap. I would like to hear more details about every slide just to learn but guys won't post info when they get torched on here. Not every situation is pure stupidity and not being uneducated, but sometimes bad $&@t happens. I don't know this is a very touchy subject that I have no answers to. All I know is make good decisions through out the day and never take anything for granted.

 

[007sevens]

I have to agree with you here. The risk is high when going into the back country, most already know this. I really wonder how many of the people that I seen go up the hill yesterday , about 200 sleds, really knew what the conditions were. I try to keep a log as to what has been going on in the area I ride the most. The website is good but my NO means a complete data for the hill your about to climb. Just because the Avy conditions are high does not mean your shouldn't ride your sled, but you may want to question where you decide to ride.

Ratios and stats: hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of people drive per day with few people dying. Hundreds upon hundreds of sledders get out per week...Warning signs- and special bulletins posted all over media warning of complex conditions and high avalanche conditions. Yet hundreds of hundreds of snowmobilers go out without the proper knowledge and experience and ignore the signs.

I didn't choose to teach or babysit by becoming a guide. So I do not need to be humble to anyone, especially on the intra web.

I never said I know it all, one is an idiot if he stops learning.

Experience comes from the field. I've spent the past 20+ winters chasing snow all over the world and pursuing adventures while logging thousands upon thousands of days in the backcountry in winter. A lot of this Long before they had avalanche reports. Hell they didn't even have internet. No one shared info and there were no sources to obtain snowpack and weather data.

These days people check the avi report-ride a couple days. Get comfortable with the environment and then figure they are experienced. Not so much the case.

In the environment I grew up we forecasted the conditions. They were not provided.

 

[TylerG]

another important oftenly missed step, when you see a slide it should be reported, with photo's and GPS locations where possible.

This helps the forecasters to know where activity is happening, although right now, I think its pretty much everywhere.

 

[glassman]

You can just do like we do, always assume the worst and ride accordingly. We regularily shake our heads and keep on riding past groups of inexperienced guys. I have tried the teaching and preaching thing, but some guys know everything and cant be taught anything it would seem.

 

[Summitric]

Okay then.................. Sooooooooooo, i'm good to go??

 

[teamdirt]

Im sure most people on this site never learned in there AST course the CAA definition of high avalanche.... "Travel in avalanche terrain not recommended"

i guess when when you can't pick and choose your days you just go for it anyway

im not saying you can't go out-to some. I just think it's interesting especially when we are experiencing the worst deep seeded instability anyone can even remember in the last decade...

 

[lilduke]

Funny u say that as I'm sitting on a beach in Central America waiting for the snowpack to hopefully stabilize by end of the month....be in touch when it gets better out there!

Till then margaritas tend to make your posts more entertaining.

Stay safe everyone!

Well chit aren't you awesome,,, I was on the mountain today,, had a blast....