The twin vs triple debate. time to bring back the trip---or not?

[Modman]

Interesting Twin Vs Triples Article at Snowmobile Fanatics - Forum Heres some light reading from Olav Aaen. Maybe the words of renowned engineer/ snowmobiler will lay this to rest? Or is he full of **** like you think I am ?

Did you even read that article - or are you just trolling the net for information to support your case? You've applied an eastern tech article to a western riding example.....LOL

"....A lot of groomed trail and lake riders today don't care for all that travel, but prefer a lower set-up that hugs the corners rather than a tall snocross-inspired bump-runner that tips up on the outside ski when you go around a corner fast. Without all the long travel suspension technology, the older sleds were also lighter than many of the newer machines. With free-turning tracks and less weight, performance was better on lakes and groomed trails, and this influenced fuel mileage...."

hmmm seems like we are talking about riding out east again....yep lakes and groomed trails - lots of those out west here? I hate having long travel suspension when riding a whooped trail or cruising through deep pow...Yeah right....this should be an apples to apples comparison....LMAO....we all miss the Mach Tons with shocks under the hood that faded out when they got hot, fiberglass hoods, 32 bogies in the suspension and steel skis..... low set up sleds that hug the corners tend to go really good in the powder....bahahahahahah.......weight? Sure the Mach Ton track might be lighter, but how far you gonna climb the hill with 7/8" paddles?

"Since the triple has a shorter stroke, it also can be easily revved at 9000 rpm or higher without losing much in cylinder efficiency...."

Yeeee Hawwww...now let's run around at 9,000 RPM with our handlebars at our knees...oh wait.... not as feasible in the mountains with our on/off throttle style as it is on groomed trails and lakes holding it wide open for days at a time...... As jpgmtech said, good luck clutching that triple for 9000 RPM in the hills...wheeeeeeee! Do you get better fuel mileage when you rev higher?

Torque is made by moving the stroke force off the crank centerline.

 

[CUSO]

What next? Leather suits again??

 

[popcorn popper]

Did you even read that article - or are you just trolling the net for information to support your case? You've applied an eastern tech article to a western riding example.....LOL

"....A lot of groomed trail and lake riders today don't care for all that travel, but prefer a lower set-up that hugs the corners rather than a tall snocross-inspired bump-runner that tips up on the outside ski when you go around a corner fast. Without all the long travel suspension technology, the older sleds were also lighter than many of the newer machines. With free-turning tracks and less weight, performance was better on lakes and groomed trails, and this influenced fuel mileage...."

hmmm seems like we are talking about riding out east again....yep lakes and groomed trails - lots of those out west here? I hate having long travel suspension when riding a whooped trail or cruising through deep pow...Yeah right....this should be an apples to apples comparison....LMAO....we all miss the Mach Tons with shocks under the hood that faded out when they got hot, fiberglass hoods, 32 bogies in the suspension and steel skis..... low set up sleds that hug the corners tend to go really good in the powder....bahahahahahah.......weight? Sure the Mach Ton track might be lighter, but how far you gonna climb the hill with 7/8" paddles?

"Since the triple has a shorter stroke, it also can be easily revved at 9000 rpm or higher without losing much in cylinder efficiency...."

Yeeee Hawwww...now let's run around at 9,000 RPM with our handlebars at our knees...oh wait.... not as feasible in the mountains with our on/off throttle style as it is on groomed trails and lakes holding it wide open for days at a time...... As jpgmtech said, good luck clutching that triple for 9000 RPM in the hills...wheeeeeeee! Do you get better fuel mileage when you rev higher?

Torque is made by moving the stroke force off the crank centerline.

Modman you clearly are nuts!im not trolling jackshit! I read that article quite awhile ago and thought I would share it with you! However you can't see anything past twin spark plugs. I know 9000 rpm is not that great of rpm to spin in the hills (although i have)but you wouldn't have to and he says you can spin the triple to 9000 without trouble unlike Modmans twin or boom!He did say say the 600 race twins spinning at high rpm match the hp of a 800 cause of the small cylinders. Our own 809 made 162 hp at 8400 on Motts Dyno hardly spinning to the moon! Adding cubes such as a 925 kit or say 1000 brings the rpm lower or keep it at 8500 ish that's easy to manage. And yes he is referring to the east cause that's where he's from! He's only telling you the benifits of the engine design it could even be on the Dyno in your home town it would be the same.and wow Modman you say I get worked up? Nothing compared to you!

 

[DRD]

If you can't hit a 200+ rpm window where the sweet spot is, as with most pipes, you shouldn't be fawking with your clutch.
My baby triple runs all day at 8800, not a big deal. No deto, no vibration no problem. I'm not understanding where the on off throttle issue comes from?? Is it like the urban myth AV gas won't work at high RPM?? If you build a mountain triple, you won't run 50mm lectrons. Remember Mark Thompson running a Lemke 990 triple?? He musn't have got the memo that 3 bangers don't work.
Oh and PAR's big bore twin is nice, notice what Brads big triple makes?? 335/215, I wonder if that would be enough motor to take Freaks all conquering twin??

 

[Longhairfreak]

If you can't hit a 200+ rpm window where the sweet spot is, as with most pipes, you shouldn't be fawking with your clutch.
My baby triple runs all day at 8800, not a big deal. No deto, no vibration no problem. I'm not understanding where the on off throttle issue comes from?? Is it like the urban myth AV gas won't work at high RPM?? If you build a mountain triple, you won't run 50mm lectrons. Remember Mark Thompson running a Lemke 990 triple?? He musn't have got the memo that 3 bangers don't work.
Oh and PAR's big bore twin is nice, notice what Brads big triple makes?? 335/215, I wonder if that would be enough motor to take Freaks all conquering twin??

My twin doesnt conquer all but it makes more torque than any 200 hp triple.

 

[DRD]

My twin doesnt conquer all but it makes more torque than any 200 hp triple.

C'mon you are smarter than that. I'm sure if someone wanted to choke the HP of say an 1150 triple with a single pipe, the torque would be right there your twin. However they run pipes and the port timing to make much more HP. It's really hard to get a 1100+cc triple to make your 200HP mark that you seem to like so much, it's always more. But yes, if you want to compare an 800cc triple that's almost busting 200hp to an 1160 twin making 200hp, your are correct. So by your own admission it takes a twin that's 45% larger to edge out an 800cc triple??? That I agree on and kinda proves our point no??

 

[CUSO]

Hey everybody guess what...., Longhairedfreak's 1160 twin makes more torque than a 200 horse triple.

 

[Clode]

Okay guys....calm down...someones gonna have a heart attack !!!

 

[Modman]

Modman you clearly are nuts!im not trolling jackshit! I read that article quite awhile ago and thought I would share it with you! However you can't see anything past twin spark plugs. I know 9000 rpm is not that great of rpm to spin in the hills (although i have)but you wouldn't have to and he says you can spin the triple to 9000 without trouble unlike Modmans twin or boom!He did say say the 600 race twins spinning at high rpm match the hp of a 800 cause of the small cylinders. Our own 809 made 162 hp at 8400 on Motts Dyno hardly spinning to the moon! Adding cubes such as a 925 kit or say 1000 brings the rpm lower or keep it at 8500 ish that's easy to manage. And yes he is referring to the east cause that's where he's from! He's only telling you the benifits of the engine design it could even be on the Dyno in your home town it would be the same.and wow Modman you say I get worked up? Nothing compared to you!

LOL I know what he's saying, problem is that its hard to apply the engine dynamics here because of two different riding styles. Any raised port motor is going to start being a dog at elevation, the old 800 Ultra BB we used to have was a beotch because of the port timing. My T-cat ran great because it didn't have a big port job, just AAEN pipes, shaved heads, carbs, reeds etc and it did run better at elevation than any ported triple I've had, but still had its moments. End of the day it wasn't a tractor like my twin, the triple really started to pick up around 7500 RPM and you needed to watch where you were in the power and where you were pointed because once it started coming on, it was off like a rocket. I could have geared it down, but then you lose the effect of the triple once you are able to wind it up. Very rarely are you able to keep any motor within a small window of RPM when riding out west (at least where I ride), unless you're pointed straight up a big long hill.

p.s. I prefer "clinically unstable" to the term "nuts".

I'm not understanding where the on off throttle issue comes from?? Is it like the urban myth AV gas won't work at high RPM??....
Oh and PAR's big bore twin is nice, notice what Brads big triple makes?? 335/215, I wonder if that would be enough motor to take Freaks all conquering twin??

LOL yes Brad's big triple makes huge power, more than any of us really need probably....but what modern mountain chassis is that gonna fit in without a galactic amount of fab work? LOL Cmon now.

On/off throttle riding style? I don't ride the big open terrain as much as others, I could never boondock my triple in the trees at above 8000+ RPM, I would have been going well over 60 mph and would have had to back out of it at some point...... Only place I could hit 8800+ RPM was a very long open hill. Usually I'm picking my way through trees like these and then need to climb out of a little gully with a 4 ft run up, I'm in and out of the throttle all the time and usually from 4500 - 6000 RPM except for the occassional burst of WFO when I really need it. Always on and off the gas.

Your turn!

 

[jpgmtech]

Okay, anyone with a ZX or S chassis 809 triple with 162x16x2.5" track? I'll pull out the old ZX 800 twin and will do a little friendly dogfighting in them thar' hills and see how things play out....

 

[fatguy1]

Okay, anyone with a ZX or S chassis 809 triple with 162x16x2.5" track? I'll pull out the old ZX 800 twin and will do a little friendly dogfighting in them thar' hills and see how things play out....

Can it be an 809 Rev? what if my track is only 159 x 2? Can I bring all 150 lbs. of
Big Al to pilot it up the hills?:d

 

[Longhairfreak]

Can it be an 809 Rev? what if my track is only 159 x 2? Can I bring all 150 lbs. of
Big Al to pilot it up the hills?:d

I would love to see how this thing runs. Even more if Specialty Sled built it.

 

[popcorn popper]

Okay, anyone with a ZX or S chassis 809 triple with 162x16x2.5" track? I'll pull out the old ZX 800 twin and will do a little friendly dogfighting in them thar' hills and see how things play out....

Is that the track on your xc?i just sold my Zx had over 20,000 km on chassis. I would've gave ya a go as my son was riding it steady. With his 100lb frame he embarrassed alot of sleds. But it was getting long in tooth and we switched him to( need I say) 800 twin rev. That should get everyone wound!!!

 

[jpgmtech]

Can it be an 809 Rev? what if my track is only 159 x 2? Can I bring all 150 lbs. of
Big Al to pilot it up the hills?:d

Holy Fatguy Batman! I this actually Big Al??? Does he even own a computer? ;-) and with that track you're gonna need all the HP you can scrounge. And Big Al might help too...

 

[jpgmtech]

Is that the track on your xc?i just sold my Zx had over 20,000 km on chassis. I would've gave ya a go as my son was riding it steady. With his 100lb frame he embarrassed alot of sleds. But it was getting long in tooth and we switched him to( need I say) 800 twin rev. That should get everyone wound!!!

Haha, yah that is the track. It's the backup sled now, but she still hauls the mail! It's the sled in my avatar.

 

[rsaint]

Okay, anyone with a ZX or S chassis 809 triple with 162x16x2.5" track? I'll pull out the old ZX 800 twin and will do a little friendly dogfighting in them thar' hills and see how things play out....

I wish i still had my 809 with 156 2.5 and pipes would lay a wippen on you that u would not soon forget. Would just play with my 07 xrs and then go WAY higher than any thing in 07 08. Not a turbo thou.

 

[jpgmtech]

I wish i still had my 809 with 156 2.5 and pipes would lay a wippen on you that u would not soon forget. Would just play with my 07 xrs and then go WAY higher than any thing in 07 08. Not a turbo thou.

I would find that very interesting indeed... ;-)

 

[rsaint]

I would find that very interesting indeed... ;-)

Had a mountain magic rear skid not rough trail frendly but in the powder up on top and climb like a billy goat clutching was a bit to figure out to keep rpms cat roller secondary was the ticket, and a sweet sound and in old school s chassis.

 

[fatguy1]

I would love to see how this thing runs. Even more if Specialty Sled built it.

I can`t take credit for building it and neither can Specialty, The HCX secondary the previous owner had on there that he purchased from Specialty was the first thing that was removed and tossed in the junk pile.

I will admit that it`s far from perfect and I`m still sorting out some issues, but it has way more hill speed than my wifes 880 and sounds better too.

 

[fatguy1]

Holy Fatguy Batman! I this actually Big Al??? Does he even own a computer? ;-) and with that track you're gonna need all the HP you can scrounge. And Big Al might help too...

Big Al has a computer but he buys used race car parts with it... I thought it just be a good excuse to meet up with you guys and go riding!!!