Starting to understand some of the attitude.

[dogsmack]

I am about to wade in on a topic that to some will hit a nerve, either in the annoyed sense or insulted sense and for that I sort of appologize.

The last year I have seen a large number of posts regarding "newbies" "wanna bees" or "possers" and the general lack of appreciation for the extra people on the holy grounds of sledding we all migrate to. I did not bare witness to this but have been told this story from a friend by a friend and by all accounts should be very accurate.

The Valemount area on the weekend is the place. He said the place was very chaotic and at times down right dangerous with sleds heading in every direction. Now this person with his son knows his limits and will be the first to admit he isn't a fantastic sledder (keep in mind he also sleds with the group I visit a couple times a year and these guys are very good) so we suffer defeat daily trying to deal with the steep learning curve. His attitude was shock to start with but later turned to horror and concern when he realized what these "new to the sport people" are doing. One particular momment was when he stopped to help a group with stuck freeride stood straight up on its tunnel. They had been digging for over an hour when he stopped. Long story short they had no idea, brand new to the sport ( a dad on a fairly new summit and two kids late teens on freerides (new) ), and didn't know enough to just roll the sled over. After that the guy who helped was asked to ride the sled out of what he considered a not very difficult situation. He then realized the potential for harm and danger to these new sledders. And now the reason for my blip (sorry long winded).

This growing trend of finance, media attention, better sleds and the lack of common sense can it be controlled?? Is it going to be the dimise of the sport if this continues and more people get hurt or worse as we all know even the experienced can have misfortune (RIP) and the government steps. Other problems arise when some of us offer assistance or coaching and run into attitude and D Bags. My first day on the mountain I was like a sponge taking in as much instruction from experienced riders as possible and very appreciative for it but lets face it a lot of peoples egos won't allow it. Why is that?

I know we do our part to mentor and steward the areas we visit or become members of but lets face it the day is coming sh!t is going to hit the fan. I am not even sure where this post is ment to go or get across. I was told a saying once " if ignorance killed old Zeke would live forever" and that is my fear that myself or friends end up on the short end, doing everything right only to have someone who didn't know better cause the mishap.

Anyone have anything to add, thoughts? A polite go get stuffed response?

Couple of closing remarks

"If you think you are good there is always someone better"
"The day you stop learning is the day you stop living"

 

[RevyG]

I see it everyday around here, " I can sign my name seven times, get a new sled and I am a sledneck"
i know we were all rookies once but my 94 xlt kept my attitude in check.

And if any newbies are reading this and someone stops to help, say thanks, getting sick of it, some peoples children. At least once a day I will stop to give a hand only to be rode over, snow showered and left to watch buddy ride off. I won't stop lending a hand as some guys are so stoked to have you help.

 

[maxwell]

nope, good points. you need to learn from those who are more experienced than you. and like you said some are not willing or wanting to absorb the information. reminds me of a time a guy lost his chit on me for helping him get unstuck when i started rolling his sled over. hahaha

i dont think financing is the problem. chit ive financed toys and i consider mysefl experienced and im sure alot of others do aswell. but it is VERY easy to get a toy i suppose.

 

[Stickyfingers]

I needed to read this. I am taking my 17 year old brother out for his first mountain ride this weekend. I should also make him read this. for the most part snowmobilers are a friendly kind helpful group of people. And A small part are arrogant better then everybody D-bags. I enjoy helping people i dont know get unstuck if they need it. I also enjoy offering advice if they ask. I would like to think others would do the same for me.

 

[fnDan]

It's a tough situation.
You want people to join and grow our sport but there are no newbie beginner courses available. The people out there that are teaching are usually booked solid and it's probably a lot more than a first time sledder can handle all at once.
There are a lot of people that are not at the "amazing" level of sledding but know enough and have the patience to show people the basics. I've started riding with a local from Fernie and I am picking up a lot from him. He is happy to help and doesn't seem to get frustrated. We rode Monday and noticed a couple of riders that looked lost on the trail in. My friend waved them over, told them they could follow us to the cabin where he would give them an idea of where to go or they could tag along with us for the day. One of them could ride quite well and had been sledding since he was 13. The other kid had never been on anything motorized and bought the sled 4 months ago. They didn't tell us right away and we should have asked. His buddy didn't seem to offer any advice but John took every opportunity to help him out. Almost a whole day of lessons. He started improving near the end but then fatigue sets in and it's time to head back. I'll bet he still had a great day even though you could see his frustration.

I was going to come in here and say that some of these good riders should provide their information to dealers and offer 2 hour basics for a fair price. Unfortunately, I think that could open the door for potential liability. Most of these people don't need to get to the secret spots with super deep powder. They can't get there and should'nt even try.
One possible reason for newbies just showing up without getting help or advice is that nobody wants to look stupid, ignorant or approach a group that isn't helpful or even nice. They are out there.
If everyone in your circle of sledding buddies only rides within that group, you will only learn so much. A lot of us are experts at getting stuck and learn more about getting unstuck than actually riding.


I think videos like Schooled are great but are still too much for a beginner. Adding footage of guys pull off crazy sidehills, climbs and descents sells DVDs but doesn't help the newbie. They see the cool stuff and a lot of people make it look easy. The manufacturers should consider making newbie sled videos for mountain riding, really promote finding an experienced rider to tag along with occasionally and being comfortable with letting people know you're new to the sport. I'm talking about absolute basics - never stop facing uphill. Videos can only do so much and seeing someone ride up close is still the best thing.

When I first started it was all about getting somewhere which didn't give me any time to practice how to ride. Every time out was just getting through the day. After 10 years (I think) of riding I am really working on practicing techniques that friends are happy to share and I'm not so concerned about how far I rode or where I made it to.

 

[harper44]

I don't think you can paint every novice rider that buys a new sled with the same brush. Fact is that if you could have done it when you started out, you would have too. We all would.

It's just life really, there are D-bags at every corner, it's always been the same and it's never going to change. As some people get older and wiser they tend to look down on younger, less experienced guys and forget what they were like at the same stage. Fact is that most people had to learn their skills the hard way through their own failures due to their egos. That is human nature and I doubt it will change in our lifetime.

The best course of action in my opinion is to help those who need it and stay away from those who don't want it. There's plenty of room out in the mountains for all skill levels and egos.

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using

 

[moyiesledhead]

I am about to wade in on a topic that to some will hit a nerve, either in the annoyed sense or insulted sense and for that I sort of appologize.

I love that!

Seriously though, I find myself going out of my way to avoid these situations these days. I started sledding way back in the late '60's, and believe it or not there were a lot of sleds around in those days. Because of the machine's limited capabilities we all pretty much rode in the same small areas, but it never felt crowded. Everyone was courteous and friendly, and we had a great time. Attitudes have changed these days. I find myself more and more trying to avoid areas where others ride. No more Revy, Vale, Golden trips for me. I rarely even ride our local groomed trail system till the end of April now. I've stopped riding with those that seem to need a flat of beer or a bag of weed to have fun for the day. I have no problem taking newbies out, or experienced riders new to the area, but if they pizz me off they don't get invited twice.

I think I'm becoming cynical.

 

[Anvil1010]

I've stopped riding with those that seem to need a flat of beer or a bag of weed to have fun for the day.

THIS. Can nobody do anything anymore with out having to be pissed or stoned?
It is not just sledding, it seems this is everywhere.

 

[maxwell]

THIS. Can nobody do anything anymore with out having to be pissed or stoned?
It is not just sledding, it seems this is everywhere.

Ya that is extremely annoying


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[harper44]

THIS. Can nobody do anything anymore with out having to be pissed or stoned?
It is not just sledding, it seems this is everywhere.

I agree 100% and I personally save the beers for the hotel (mainly because I'm too out of shape to even consider drinking beer instead of water on the mountain) but you cant possibly believe that this is a new phenomenon. Every story my father ever tells from the 60's starts with "so we loaded up a few flats of beer in the truck/bike/boat".....

 

[sledneck_03]

THIS. Can nobody do anything anymore with out having to be pissed or stoned?
It is not just sledding, it seems this is everywhere.

we drink hard........in the hotel. no drinking on the mountain, maybe seen 2-3 guys in our usually huge group maybe have a coors light at lunch once.

 

[Scotford]

This is a great thread!!!!! ..... When I first started in 2000 I had a similar attitude what I am seeing today..... TELL I met my sledding buddies now and over the last few years my attitude has completely changed towards fellow sledders and to the mountains.... I agree with a lot of points on here that these newbies have no respect and are all cocky with there bran new (70,000 truck 16,000 sled 15,000 sled trailer) financed to the nuts !!!! ( I was there) and no knowledge as to how the mountains will treat you.... Nothing well change ...... It will only get worse......


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[Bnorth]

I rarely ride busy areas, only a couple times a year to ride with buddies. The retard/hero factor is unbelievable.

 

[ABMax24]

This is a great thread!!!!! ..... When I first started in 2000 I had a similar attitude what I am seeing today..... TELL I met my sledding buddies now and over the last few years my attitude has completely changed towards fellow sledders and to the mountains.... I agree with a lot of points on here that these newbies have no respect and are all cocky with there bran new (70,000 truck 16,000 sled 15,000 sled trailer) financed to the nuts !!!! ( I was there) and no knowledge as to how the mountains will treat you.... Nothing well change ...... It will only get worse......


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This, and the 16 year old kids riding a new sled that daddy paid for that think they are gods gift to sledding. How cruel the real world will be to them...

 

[SparkBuilder]

I've been lucky enough to get in to mountain riding this year along with a few buddies of mine. As part of the "newbie" group, I have to say that we have really benefited from the help and advice we've received from the experienced riders out there. I found myself pretty intimidated by mountain sledding in general and by the more experienced riders at first. I've come to realize after a few trips that most sledders out there seem to be very willing to help out or give a few pointers to a newbie when they see one. The more time I spend out there, the more I find there is to learn. Every new riding area seems to present its own unique challenges and skills to be tackled. I know I still have a lot to learn about riding out there and look forward to it, hopefully one day I'll have learned enough that I can pass on the knowledge I've gained to the next set of new riders. I really hope that those of you out there that have been helping the new guys learn, continue to do so, because some of us are listening and really appreciate it.

 

[lilduke]

This, and the 16 year old kids riding a new sled that daddy paid for that think they are gods gift to sledding. How cruel the real world will be to them...

My dad bought me a new sled when I was 16 and 17 years later here I am,,, still sledding

 

[Mike270412]

I'm hammered right now.

THIS. Can nobody do anything anymore with out having to be pissed or stoned?
It is not just sledding, it seems this is everywhere.

 

[ABMax24]

My dad bought me a new sled when I was 16 and 17 years later here I am,,, still sledding

That's not quite my point, but yes most people that start sledding at a younger age continue for most of their life.

My point is that young kids that have everything handed to them from their parents have a more difficult time when they have to earn the money to pay for their toys, reality hits hard when daddy cuts off access to his bank account. Now some take this and run with it, working very hard to earn for themselves what they used to have from mommy and daddy. But what I do know is how rewarding it is to buy your first sled (even if it was a 12 year old rmk 700), knowing that I worked hard for that machine and so took care of it accordingly, particularly when the backup was a Cheetah 340. Now if you were fortunate enough to have a sled bought for you then that's great, I just wasn't that fortunate.

 

[lilduke]

Now if you were fortunate enough to have a sled bought for you then that's great, I just wasn't that fortunate.

Some families have money and some don't, glad mine did. Don't be a hater.

 

[Rjjtcross8]

A lot of it has to do with how society is wired these days. It seems like People these days like to be served, have it done for them, and help is expectation rather then ask for it, ask questions or seek the knowledge. How many new drivers know how to change a flat tire? Not many these days, but here is a $500 cell phone just call and someone else will help you.