Somebody Cry Wolf ??
- Thread starter sumx54
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Only shoot what you will eat, now all the animal rights people can get worked up just like them doo doo green peace protestors. I say shoot them instead of the Wolf:d[/QUOT
Would it be wrong to shoot them if we eat them after then.......
rob350
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Only shoot what you will eat, now all the animal rights people can get worked up just like them doo doo green peace protestors. I say shoot them instead of the Wolf:d[/QUOT
Would it be wrong to shoot them if we eat them after then.......
That may be, but what if we feed them to our dogs?
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sumx54
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Snowdin
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The End of Big Game Hunting? Maybe.
by Gary Marbut, president Montana Shooting Sports Association
I've been studying more of the research by Professor Warren Ballard in Alaska. Ballard's studies documented that wolves will kill about 30 moose per year (per wolf), and he is careful to say that this is a low number because the researchers probably missed some kills with their survey methodology. If you calculate biomass, it will probably take 60 or more elk to provide the same biomass as 30 moose.
And, this doesn't include such well-documented phenomenon as "surplus killing" and "sport killing" by wolves. Further, in order to obtain this much biomass, Alaskan wolves were killing an inordinate number of young moose. This has, of course, profound implications for the population dynamics of Montana elk herds. That's exactly why the calf/cow ratio is now so bad in areas with wolves, such as in the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd, as we've known all along.
It is also interesting to note that Ballard found no evidence of sickness or debility among any moose killed by wolves.
So, given the research done to date, if wolves are not aggressively controlled, and soon, devastation of Montana elk, deer, sheep, moose and goat populations, and livestock, is a reasonable projection. While deer, elk, moose, sheep and goats may not be wiped out to the last animal, uncontrolled wolves will certainly not leave enough for human hunters to be allowed to hunt.
Pretty hard to hunt what you eat when there isn't any left. My moose hunting buds have been skunked for the past two years because the wolfs moved into the area. In fact they now can't even get drawn for a tag because Fish & Wildlife can't afford to have any more moose taken from the area.
Well according to the post above the US Govt has failed on there wolf deal in Yellowstone. Also the grizzly bear numbers are down, all of the wildlife is suffering due to taking away the forest and development. Look in China or India where are there animals going [extent].
Snowdin
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It's always amusing to hear the uninformed opinions about the bears disappearing and the animals losing their habitat. The animal lovers will not reveal the true numbers of bear in the wild because then they would get caught crying wolf. (Pun intended)
Take a drive out to an oilfield someday (like the Carson Creek Pengrowth field for example) and notice the wildlife living and flourishing right there in the middle of what some folks think has been taken away from the critters.
Take a drive out to an oilfield someday (like the Carson Creek Pengrowth field for example) and notice the wildlife living and flourishing right there in the middle of what some folks think has been taken away from the critters.
ZRrrr
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"Pretty hard to hunt what you eat when there isn't any left. My moose hunting buds have been skunked for the past two years because the wolfs moved into the area. In fact they now can't even get drawn for a tag because Fish & Wildlife can't afford to have any more moose taken from the area."[/QUOTE]
...But if you really look into this further it's not that there are less ungulates to hunt. It's the methadologies used to count the herds. Once wolf populations move into an area, ungulates become more vigilant in their efforts to keep moving/hide from said predators. This causes real issues for wildlife officials when trying to do accurate ungulate counts. Read any of the published reports and it's repeated over and over that in wolf areas it's difficult to make accurate ungulate counts due to movement.
Some wolf packs have been known to "sport hunt" but it is really inconclusive whether or not it is indeed for sport. There are too many other factors involved to actually call it "sport" kills. As it turns out these kills have a huge beneficial impact on other organisms within the range. They offer a food source to so many other animals that might otherwise decline in numbers as a result of lack of food, especially during hard winters or other times of struggle. Every creature has it's purpose to the balance.
Don't kid yourself.....traffic fatalities and hunting are THE two largest pressures put upon ungulate populations. Even the Sustainable Resources Department of our province will tell you so.
I'm not anti hunting.....far from it. I support RESPONSIBLE hunting, and hunting for a purpose. I reap the rewards every year from friends and immediate family. Deer, Moose, Elk and yes...even the sacred Caribou, one of my favourites. I'm not here to threaten the hunting way of life. I'm here to support responsible hunting with a point and in the support of truth!
In the 50's ranchers of the North Western US started a massive marketing compaign against the wolves. Based heavily upon fear tactics and lies it became the media story of century. They carefully and cleverly orchestrated massive wolf kills. What was the end point.....land access....FREE grazing. land that in turn generated huge profits for the ranching industry. Always a hidden agenda isn't there!
Now only 60 years later many of the lies of the 50's are still alive and well. An entire generation still exists that believes these lies.
Ranchers and farmers do suffer some losses. More so here in Alberta than many other places simply due to the fact that our Gov offers up a much larger range of grazing properties than anywhere else. However, other causes like weather, disease and calving problems cause far more livestock deaths than predation by wolves. In 2001 wolves were responsible for only 0.03% of cattle, 1.3% of sheep deaths from all causes and 1% of cattle and 0.04% of sheep deaths due to predators. Improved livestock husbandry practices make a BIG difference, like rotating and guarding herds, keeping them away from wolf denning and rendevouz sites, and removing carcasses from fields so wolves do not get used to feeding on livestock.
There is little factual evidence to support contentions that wolves cause "unhealthy" decreases in size of deer, moose and elk herds. There is evidence from 2003 to 2004 that shows some of the highest ungulate harvests ever, while supporting large, healthy wolf populations. Harsh winter weather, TRAFFIC, disease, parasites, bear kills have a far greater impact on herds. When prey are healthy, in good habitat and without the other major limiting factors (and SRD even lumps hunting in there), wolf predation alone does not cause a decline. Where populations of ungulates have declined as a result of the above factors, wolves WILL kill one another or starve. Natural wolf-ungulate systems stabilize at low numbers.
I could go on and on, but my point is shooting a wolf....why!?
There is a far bigger issue for hunters that is beginning to show itself at the fore front of research. With close to 100 years of data to review, certain correlations are being made from the data. One of the issues is that of ungulate evolution. Certain animal species seem to be evolving at faster rates than others, ungulates being one of them. Researchers are starting to discuss evidence showing that trophy hunting for the largest, strongest, healthiest and most virile of a species is reducing the overall physical size of future herds. By removal of the biggest and best of the herds, there is less and less of these best for passing on their genes. In turn, the physical characterisitics of the herds are changing...they are getting smaller in physical size and with less healthy, virile males. Funny part is it means smaller and smaller trophies available in the long run. A reall catch 22! I'm only conveying the information here, not opposing trophy hunting, if you eat the meat, but wait for this information to start to getting out and see the chit hit the fan! Wolves will be the least of the worries.
I need to pee so I'm bowing out for now. Again my point to this whole thing is there is no FACTAUL reasons for shooting a wolf....so why!?
...But if you really look into this further it's not that there are less ungulates to hunt. It's the methadologies used to count the herds. Once wolf populations move into an area, ungulates become more vigilant in their efforts to keep moving/hide from said predators. This causes real issues for wildlife officials when trying to do accurate ungulate counts. Read any of the published reports and it's repeated over and over that in wolf areas it's difficult to make accurate ungulate counts due to movement.
Some wolf packs have been known to "sport hunt" but it is really inconclusive whether or not it is indeed for sport. There are too many other factors involved to actually call it "sport" kills. As it turns out these kills have a huge beneficial impact on other organisms within the range. They offer a food source to so many other animals that might otherwise decline in numbers as a result of lack of food, especially during hard winters or other times of struggle. Every creature has it's purpose to the balance.
Don't kid yourself.....traffic fatalities and hunting are THE two largest pressures put upon ungulate populations. Even the Sustainable Resources Department of our province will tell you so.
I'm not anti hunting.....far from it. I support RESPONSIBLE hunting, and hunting for a purpose. I reap the rewards every year from friends and immediate family. Deer, Moose, Elk and yes...even the sacred Caribou, one of my favourites. I'm not here to threaten the hunting way of life. I'm here to support responsible hunting with a point and in the support of truth!
In the 50's ranchers of the North Western US started a massive marketing compaign against the wolves. Based heavily upon fear tactics and lies it became the media story of century. They carefully and cleverly orchestrated massive wolf kills. What was the end point.....land access....FREE grazing. land that in turn generated huge profits for the ranching industry. Always a hidden agenda isn't there!
Now only 60 years later many of the lies of the 50's are still alive and well. An entire generation still exists that believes these lies.
Ranchers and farmers do suffer some losses. More so here in Alberta than many other places simply due to the fact that our Gov offers up a much larger range of grazing properties than anywhere else. However, other causes like weather, disease and calving problems cause far more livestock deaths than predation by wolves. In 2001 wolves were responsible for only 0.03% of cattle, 1.3% of sheep deaths from all causes and 1% of cattle and 0.04% of sheep deaths due to predators. Improved livestock husbandry practices make a BIG difference, like rotating and guarding herds, keeping them away from wolf denning and rendevouz sites, and removing carcasses from fields so wolves do not get used to feeding on livestock.
There is little factual evidence to support contentions that wolves cause "unhealthy" decreases in size of deer, moose and elk herds. There is evidence from 2003 to 2004 that shows some of the highest ungulate harvests ever, while supporting large, healthy wolf populations. Harsh winter weather, TRAFFIC, disease, parasites, bear kills have a far greater impact on herds. When prey are healthy, in good habitat and without the other major limiting factors (and SRD even lumps hunting in there), wolf predation alone does not cause a decline. Where populations of ungulates have declined as a result of the above factors, wolves WILL kill one another or starve. Natural wolf-ungulate systems stabilize at low numbers.
I could go on and on, but my point is shooting a wolf....why!?
There is a far bigger issue for hunters that is beginning to show itself at the fore front of research. With close to 100 years of data to review, certain correlations are being made from the data. One of the issues is that of ungulate evolution. Certain animal species seem to be evolving at faster rates than others, ungulates being one of them. Researchers are starting to discuss evidence showing that trophy hunting for the largest, strongest, healthiest and most virile of a species is reducing the overall physical size of future herds. By removal of the biggest and best of the herds, there is less and less of these best for passing on their genes. In turn, the physical characterisitics of the herds are changing...they are getting smaller in physical size and with less healthy, virile males. Funny part is it means smaller and smaller trophies available in the long run. A reall catch 22! I'm only conveying the information here, not opposing trophy hunting, if you eat the meat, but wait for this information to start to getting out and see the chit hit the fan! Wolves will be the least of the worries.
I need to pee so I'm bowing out for now. Again my point to this whole thing is there is no FACTAUL reasons for shooting a wolf....so why!?
Maybe they should introduce Cougars to this area more that will keep the deere down, I dont think they kill for the thrill like wolves do as they say. In our area 20 years ago you never saw moose but now there are allot of them.
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nothing beats dropping a coyote on the run with a 270 short mag. if u disagree with me come spend some time out at my place with your cute city dog and see how long it will survive. coyotes are the most cowardly animal the way they lure stuff out and attack in a pack.
I dont know? do what ever you want. iam no tree hugger by any means but i just get no enjoyment out killing animals. As a livestock producer i have had to "kill, put down or just plain knock on the head " more animals than i can remember, and i have never once felt good about it. Justify it as population control or what ever you like, Hunting for pleasure or sport is pointless to me.
Snowdin
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Ya the biologist at Fish and Wildlife in all their wisdom brought in 3 mating pairs about 6 years ago to get the deer population down. Don't know why they couldn't just issue more tags to the hunters. Anyway now people are reporting their horses being attacked by cougars and several sitings lately. A man and his wife and little girl were sitting in their outdoor hot tub and a cougar was crouched in the shrubs watching them. He got his family out and into the house safely but when he returned with the gun the cat was gone.
heard the same thing from a woman who lives near elk island park. apparently they intoduced a few cougars out there now. she said she lost 1 horse this year but was unsure wether cougars or wolves. However first one she had lost to other animals since she has lived there. Thats been 25 yrs now she said. kinda weid that no problems were there until the introduction of these predators, or reintroduction i guess, animals like these should be kept in the wild away from populated areas. Not trying to discriminate hear, the animals that is, but it would be better for their safety as well as the publics safety if they were left where they were in the wild.
catzuki
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This wolf is in big buck magazine. Just so you guys know. Very back page. 197lb and i guess the guys were hunting bears when they shot it. Very big and its suppose to be a new world record wolf.
ya i want to get wild tv just so i can watch the show when they air it. they said they had a big bear under them at the time that actually alerted them to the wolves.
catzuki
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ya i want to get wild tv just so i can watch the show when they air it. they said they had a big bear under them at the time that actually alerted them to the wolves.
Ya i know. I want to see it too. Wonder if its online some were. I got wild tv but not sure if im gonna be home to see the episode.
Snowdin
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Ya i know. I want to see it too. Wonder if its online some were. I got wild tv but not sure if im gonna be home to see the episode.
Man you gotta get a PVR. Best invention ever.
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