Skinz Nytro front end, or Zbros...what's the verdict?

[moyiesledhead]

Should have been enough of them out there this season to prove them. Do they fix the handling issue on the Nytro? I've either gotta do something about the total inability to control this thing down hill, or it's getting sold.

 

[summit889]

They both work really well. I have skinz, probably would buy zbroz if I was doing it again as they seem a bit beefier.

 

[Lowlife82]

What is the change exactly??

 

[moyiesledhead]

Zbros moves the skis ahead 3 inches and down 1 inch. Skinz moves the skis ahead 4 1/2 inches. Supposed to improve the handling issues.....but that's what I'm trying to find out for sure before dropping the coin on one of 'em. If it doesn't help then I'm just gonna sell it.

 

[Lowlife82]

Ahhh. I've heard Yamaha has been testing similar set up. I know a couple people who have been messing around with this believe. I'll check and get back to ya.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

On our Nytro its hard to say how much of an effect the new Skinz front suspension has had. The conversion to a Black has transformed the sled so much. It actually handles or feels like a mountain sled should at least in my own opinion. The sled does alot of stuff now with ease that a year ago would have lead to a stuck fest.
As for the whole heavy duty debate something has to give when you hit something, on a personal basis, I would much rather replace a a-arm than have to replace sub frame again. Jan has ran her sled into more than one rock and tree over the course of the season and so far nothing is broke or bent, knock on wood.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

Let me tell you this new Skinz front suspension is a game changer it totally changes the front geometry of the sled. The fundamental issue with these sleds is the handling. The handling issues on the Nytro's comes down to a front to back balancing issue. The Nytro is designed to put the rider in a very "rider forward" position. So what you end up with is the majority of the weight ie the engine and rider centered right over the same space. Then you tuck the skis underneath this and you create a situation that you need maximum effort to create minimum change in direction of the sled IF you can effect change in direction at all without being thrown off the sled or the sled tipping over on you.

When you measure the distance between the steering post and spindle on a Polaris Pro or an M series sled it comes out to between 24 and 26 inches. When you measure the same distance on a Nytro you come out at 19 inches. What Skinz has done with their front end kit is lengthen that distance by 4 and a half inches thereby stretching out the front end. This creates a better geometry front to back. Then the sled will not dart and dive all over the place. It will not throw you off on a side hill because the center of gravity on the sled has been stretched out.

Like Larry said I have put my sled through it's paces this year. The issues with my sled are all rider induced......although sometimes those darn trees and rocks have been known to just jump right out in front of me!!!!


Just out of curiosity have you made any changes to your rear suspension Moyie?



Jan

 

[K45]

On our Nytro its hard to say how much of an effect the new Skinz front suspension has had. The conversion to a Black has transformed the sled so much. It actually handles or feels like a mountain sled should at least in my own opinion. The sled does alot of stuff now with ease that a year ago would have lead to a stuck fest.
As for the whole heavy duty debate something has to give when you hit something, on a personal basis, I would much rather replace a a-arm than have to replace sub frame again. Jan has ran her sled into more than one rock and tree over the course of the season and so far nothing is broke or bent, knock on wood.

I'm not going to bash here, just give a couple facts - I have the Skins Concept front end on my 2010 TNytro - Yes it improves the handling for the better - does it make it ride like a Pro - NOPE, I have a 2012 Pro so easy to compare.
I broke the lower arm heim joint on mine with the original 1/2"Heims - If you break one at a high speed there is a chance your not walking away from it, the lower arm instantly drops into the snow, the ski flips up over your hood and you stop rather harshly - now you have a problem if your way back in some steep ch!t - bent subframe you can usualy drive out with not much issue. $$$ to fix tho - so is a
chopper.
Skinz has updated to a 5/8"heim now which it should have been from the start - I took my Gen 3 ski,s off and put the stock ski,s back on because I dont trust this front end. Have not rode it really to find out how its going to hold up - I do have a back up Z-Broz 3" forward front end just in case.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

Hey K45

I don't want this to turn into a pissing match but no one said a Nytro would handle like a Pro at the end of the day a Nytro is a Nytro and a Pro is a Pro. What this kit has done to the Nytro's though is turned it into a true mountain machine it has totally revolutionized it. I rode my Nytro bone stock for 3 years and while you can do it, it isn't very much fun. My sled is a brand new machine after all the mods that we put into and really let's face it with the amount of coin we dropped into it, it better be!! I can go places with my machine now that I wouldn't have dreamed of going before and if I did go before those in my riding group would have been in for a world of hurt because I would have been stuck.

As far as the heim joints go very few of the original heim joints have actually failed due to metallurgical failure. A very high proportion of the few failures are a result of 2 things either improper installation or impact. We have 2 of the Nytro Blacks in our trailer and both of them have the original 1/2 inch heim joints. Like I said in my previous post I have had many many opportunities to test the strength of these joints and have had no issues. Skinz though has stepped up to the plate and offered warranty replacement on those parts and free upgrades to the 5/8 heim joints. All the kits that have come out since January 1, 2012 are coming with the 5/8 heim joints. If you need some assistance in getting your lower heim joints upgraded please shoot me a pm and I'll help you out.

You're right a break down in the back country sucks. When I had that close encounter with the tree I bent and twisted my subframe. I actually couldn't believe it wasn't an arm. When I got the bill for that repair I wished it was an a arm though!! It comes down to though if you hit anything hard enough something is going to give. We've had to pull lots of sleds out of the back country...what's the saying....chit happens.......that's what builds character and makes great hot tub stories!!!!

Jan

 

[K45]

Trax - Not trying to get anyone upset - All it takes is for your front end to break once to put a bad taste in a persons mouth.
For me I had a sled trip booked and no way of getting parts in time, I needed a sled so I bought a new Pro. I have new updated
1/2"Heims and used once and 5/8" lowers to install when I have time and its a pain in the you know what to change and align. Skinz stepped
up and did the right thing (Good company)just basically cost me a season of not riding the Nytro.(I work alot, the season for me is a few days) Such is life.

And your right a Nytro is a Nytro no matter what front end - with the Skinz it does handle better no question - You compared the Pro front end to the Skins
front end - So I only stated that the Nytro cant handle like a pro - Still love My Nytro tho.

There is also a huge difference between a stock sled putting around and a boosted sled on the front end I would think



Both Z-Broz and Skinz have had issues this past season, both improve handling....

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

I think we have had a failure to communicate and if I was unclear in my previous posts please forgive me. This is an issue that I feel very passionate about because I have been dealing with it all winter and have spent many many hours on the phone with customers and Skinz dealing with these front end kits.

The point I was trying to make in bringing up the M series sleds and the Pro's was in the distance between the steering posts and the spindles which is between 24 and 26 inches. The distance on a stock Nytro between these 2 measurements is 19 inches. So Skinz took the distance on the 2 above mentioned sleds and factored that into the equation when deciding how far ahead to move the front end on the kit. That's it......they nor we have ever made the claim that bang the Nytro will suddenly handle like a Pro or M series sled. If that is the impression that I have left that is wrong. What it will do is greatly improve the handling of the Nytro.

I hope I have cleared up any confusion that I may have created.

Jan

 

[moyiesledhead]

Just out of curiosity have you made any changes to your rear suspension Moyie?Jan

Sled came with Timbersled front and rear. I have 2 other sleds with Timbersled rear and have always been happy with them. The Nytro is no exception....though it's a little tougher to tune it to keep the ski's down. Front end is a whole different story though. Great climbing, but frickin' dangerous coming back down! Goes right where it wants to every time! I've only ridden it twice this year due to other unrelated issues with it. Little more comfortable with it last time out, but still hate the handling issues.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

I was just talking to Jake from Skinz this morning about the front end kits and we were discussing the set ups. Once you get your rear suspension and your front suspension set up and working together you are going to one happy person!!! Is it the newer Timbersled suspension? He was saying it has been a huge learning curve for them and us in how to get the rear suspensions set up to work in conjunction with the front end to get the most out of your sled. With our 2 Nytro's we have got one with the K-Mod suspension and one with the Timbersled. We have the K-Mod dialed in but we still have to do some fiddling to get the Timbersled set. Another thing though to keep in mind the rear suspension needs to be totally switched up too depending on the type of riding you are doing a hill climbing set up is not going to be the same set up as say boondocking or trail riding.

Jan

 

[moyiesledhead]

Nope, it's the old one. I have the update kit on order to make it same as the 2010, but apparantly it can't be updated to the new adjustable model. I'm actually pretty good at setting these up now having owned 3 of them, along with 2 buddies and both my son's sleds. Sure hope you're right about the Skinz front end, cause I've gotta do something with it or I probably won't keep it. When should I order to have one for late summer?

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

I understand the needing to change something or ditchingthe sled thing...that's where I was at the end of last season with mine. Something had to change or I was going to sell mine. We made some pretty drastic changes and both Larry and I and very happy with the way things turned out!!

I've got 2 coming this Saturday that are gone the orders that are coming this Saturday are part of my December, January and February orders. I've got 2 more coming without deposits that were from a March order that I haven't received yet. These kits sell before they hit my door. The sooner you put your name on one the better. I usually have a big Fall order but I would hate to promise you something and then it not be here.

Jan

 

[moyiesledhead]

With all the kits supposedly sold I thought I'd get more feedback than this. Anybody else?

 

[rknight111]

I have the zbros it works great. I ride mine quite hard as well. Be sure to order with the stronger upper tie rod ends. there is a regular one and a strong one. The regular one lasted me about 5 minutes and it was bent forward. Otherwise this is a great product product, well built not flimsy.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Well, I'm going with Zbros. Be here in August. Sure hope they solve the handling issues for the money I'll be spending. Went with them because they come with spindles. With the Skinz you use your stock spindles....which I don't have any more.

 

[Lowlife82]

What's the price and where did u get it from?

 

[jrusher]

I went Z-bros plus 3 on my tnytro worked great put 1000 km on in the mountains only issue is my one tie rod rubs alittle when my skis are cranked all the way left.. Went with racers edge skid as well last season what a change front and rear!! Sled works awesome! 6000km now gas an go.. Bought a 12 pro for the kid to ride its a fun sled but i still prefer the nytro in any riding condition but if i threw same $$ at the pro im sure it be the sheit but to me 4 stroke reliability is where its at..