Silber or BoonDocker side kick

[pistoncontracting]

The stand alone system is no longer needed with the refresh. And most people don't want to spend the money for the cost of a stand alone fuel controller when the reflash is just as good.

Fuel controller's definitely have their place, and we wouldn't be were we are today without them. But just like the ATACC, and DPM systems did, the fuel controllers, especially for modern turbo systems, are going the way of the dinosaur.

There's no doubt there is a niche market for the guys who would rather tinker with their sled, then just ride it. Just like the retro guys still swear by re jetting 5 or 6 times a day, so to do the air fuel'ers.

 

[kanedog]

The stand alone system is no longer needed with the refresh. And most people don't want to spend the money for the cost of a stand alone fuel controller when the reflash is just as good.

Prove it.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Prove it.

Prove what? That reflash kits are the way to go??

I suspect sales show that. Or the fact the top riders in the industry are useing them??

The whole reason for a fuel controller was because factory ECU's weren't capable of anything extra. The can be said for when they needed to add extra injectors. Thanks to a few intelligent people though- the same mindset that gave us fuel injection over carburetors has given us better computers.

Technology can be a wonderful thing.

 

[dragonweld28]

Prove it.

Im not sure what you need for proof, but all the main turbo kits go with a reflash now.

Have you had the chance to ride a new turbo kit with a reflash....? probably not. If you did you would know that they work very well and require zero adjustments. Most consumers today dont want to rely on EGT and AFR numbers to make sure there sled is running well. Is there a bit of power left on the table... most likely, but the fact is they run very well with no tuning and that's what people want to spend there money on.

 

[kanedog]

I stand corrected. The fuel controller as we know it is now obsolete.
This is great news.

 

[NM]

Im not sure what you need for proof, but all the main turbo kits go with a reflash now.

Have you had the chance to ride a new turbo kit with a reflash....? probably not. If you did you would know that they work very well and require zero adjustments. Most consumers today dont want to rely on EGT and AFR numbers to make sure there sled is running well. Is there a bit of power left on the table... most likely, but the fact is they run very well with no tuning and that's what people want to spend there money on.

Ok this is just information so people really understand what it takes to make power.
The reason that most American built kits have gone to a reflash is because it is cheap and easy. One of the companies have now realized that blowing fuel through the bottom end has value and actually relocates the factory injectors.
There is actually more value in mounting extra injectors before the reeds so the reeds are also cooled, cleaned, and lubricated.
The other thing that you get with a reflash is a leaner running motor. Sure it runs good, because it runs lean most of the time which is needed with no intercooler because it would bog otherwise.
The motor will only make a small gain in horsepower. These kits are meant to be cheap, easy, and run good. It seams people are happy with the small gains in power.
To make real power, you need dense air and plenty of fuel...this is science and is not wishful thinking.
Modern standalone extra injector controllers control for elevation, intake air temp, manifold pressure, rpm, and even throttle position if needed.
We won two of the top classes last year at the Alberta Beach drags on a Axys with stock motor and off the shelf water to air kit.
I believe that it was the first time a Yamaha did not win these classes in about 10 years, and yes there were other American built turbo kits running.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Ok this is just information so people really understand what it takes to make power.
The reason that most American built kits have gone to a reflash is because it is cheap and easy. One of the companies have now realized that blowing fuel through the bottom end has value and actually relocates the factory injectors.
There is actually more value in mounting extra injectors before the reeds so the reeds are also cooled, cleaned, and lubricated.
The other thing that you get with a reflash is a leaner running motor. Sure it runs good, because it runs lean most of the time which is needed with no intercooler because it would bog otherwise.
The motor will only make a small gain in horsepower. These kits are meant to be cheap, easy, and run good. It seams people are happy with the small gains in power.
To make real power, you need dense air and plenty of fuel...this is science and is not wishful thinking.
Modern standalone extra injector controllers control for elevation, intake air temp, manifold pressure, rpm, and even throttle position if needed.
We won two of the top classes last year at the Alberta Beach drags on a Axys with stock motor and off the shelf water to air kit.
I believe that it was the first time a Yamaha did not win these classes in about 10 years, and yes there were other American built turbo kits running.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you Neil, in terms of optimum performance. To follow your logic though- the roads would be full of trophy trucks and top fuel dragsters.... not f150's with lift kits, and Corvettes.

 

[NM]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you Neil, in terms of optimum performance. To follow your logic though- the roads would be full of trophy trucks and top fuel dragsters.... not f150's with lift kits, and Corvettes.

And that is why we offer both intercooled and non intercooled kits. Just don't expect Champagne on a beer budget.
This is another low boost Axys kit that just left our shop. The good news for the customers that buy this kit, is that they can easily be upgraded when they need more. The other guys...not so easy.

 

[dragonweld28]

Im glad your the best!! Way to "toot" your own horn. If you still havent got the point, the normal consumer is looking for a kit that is easy to install and works. Not sure what you mean by small power gains, but 210 hp is still very strong. Is it 230-240 like your kits, No.If you feel that you need to be so defensive about your kits maybe there is a reason for that??? Sales low? Maybe time to get with new technology.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Looks good. It's nice to see guys are still willing to pay more for the retro look, with additional oil tanks and internal waste gates

 

[NM]

Looks good. It's nice to see guys are still willing to pay more for the retro look, with additional oil tanks and internal waste gates

External wastegates are complex and create more heat. Not needed period unless over 400 hp.
I guess the guys that call us and buy oil tanks/pumps to fix their oiling issues on their American built kits better talk to you then. Sure sold a lot of those combos last year to guys that apparently didn't need them to begin with.

 

[pistoncontracting]

External wastegates are complex and create more heat. Not needed period unless over 400 hp.

We'd be going way off topic, so I won't bother asking you to explain your opinion. Unless you thought I was talking about w2a inter coolers??

 

[sledhead9825]

Im glad your the best!! Way to "toot" your own horn. If you still havent got the point, the normal consumer is looking for a kit that is easy to install and works. Not sure what you mean by small power gains, but 210 hp is still very strong. Is it 230-240 like your kits, No.If you feel that you need to be so defensive about your kits maybe there is a reason for that??? Sales low? Maybe time to get with new technology.[/QUOTE
I think NM can toot his own horn. He builds a turbo Polaris that absolutely rips. If you want a reflash all good. If you want a deep snow hill killer its Boost-it. I don't think the other manufactures if you talk to them in person will dispute that. If you haven't run up a Boost-it sled you have no idea how well they work. Anyone who has heard riddin or run against my sled is in blown away. So Neil toot away

 

[Catman10]

I have some input on this topic. I have learned so much more about these turbo kits on the market because I will soon be upgrading and it is on my list to get the best kit I can within my budget. I am the owner of an American kit and overall it has been flawless and I have been very happy with it. That being said I have had the clutch side rod bearing fail recently and I want to know why, was it a flaw or just a typical polaris crank issue. My turbo dealer went above and beyond to help me out and yes we did make a few changes but in the end I feel that i did not have a shortage of oil. This leads me to other kits, which one will deliver the best throttle response and be absolutely pull the rope and ride. My kit is not comparable, to boost its, i have rode them and raced them, they have the edge forsure. That being said my kit absolutely has a much cleaner bottom end and mid range compared to others and after having a conversation with Neil he took the time to explain why, first of all my kit isnt intercooled and secondly my kit is running leaner than his which explains the throttle response. He also explained that it takes fuel to make power but more importantly torque which is why his kits rule, what it boils down to is what do you want, the boxes are only as good as the guy inputting the numbers. Who has the best fueling system or tuning box,I dont know, lets say which is the one for you? I couldnt care less about chute climbing, I want the stock throttle response with 40 more horse and i believe many people want that. The bullydog box is awesome and has delivered amazing throttle response day in day out, Redline has also come on board with some amazing technology in his box, Sibler is now reflashing differently and have claimed to have flawless kits, Boondocker is up there with some good kits that run pretty consistant but I found that they arent as smooth as mine and Boost it is our Canadian guy that builds top notch kits forsure and deliver the most power but some say that his box is a little behind (not my words just some opinions at the show this year). This turbo game is always improving and the mechanics dont need to change much but the electronics are what is going to set kits apart, hell maybe one of the big 3 will finally throw a turbo on from factory and offer warranty to which i will give my deposit but we will see. It is important in my opinion to actually ride the machine with a kit you are interested in, talk is cheap and when there is no snow we get bored and flap our mouths a little, I ask everyone I can for a rip and also let anyone try my rig out and let me tell you they all have thier strong points, once you ride one for awile you will know if the tune is good, does it bog or stall out in the deep pointing downhill with your exhast side buried, does it do a long pull without hitting the det or powerfade, does the on off throttle always deliver in the trees, my kit absolutely does and it puts a smile on my face every ride. Turbo kits are getting easier to install, cleaner looking and more trouble free and the prices are getting very reasonable so do your research and go from there. And for a side note I took a good look at Boost-its ski doo kit and it is gonna be way up there in my opinion, it may pull me back to the dark doo side again, I will be definately trying to get on one this year to try it out!!! I see that there has been a little bashing going on which is a waste of time and I dont want to come across as a brand loyal guy cuz I am not, just airing a little of my turbo experience and I hope it helps a little, cheers.

 

[Dragonalain]

I have some input on this topic. I have learned so much more about these turbo kits on the market because I will soon be upgrading and it is on my list to get the best kit I can within my budget. I am the owner of an American kit and overall it has been flawless and I have been very happy with it. That being said I have had the clutch side rod bearing fail recently and I want to know why, was it a flaw or just a typical polaris crank issue. My turbo dealer went above and beyond to help me out and yes we did make a few changes but in the end I feel that i did not have a shortage of oil. This leads me to other kits, which one will deliver the best throttle response and be absolutely pull the rope and ride. My kit is not comparable, to boost its, i have rode them and raced them, they have the edge forsure. That being said my kit absolutely has a much cleaner bottom end and mid range compared to others and after having a conversation with Neil he took the time to explain why, first of all my kit isnt intercooled and secondly my kit is running leaner than his which explains the throttle response. He also explained that it takes fuel to make power but more importantly torque which is why his kits rule, what it boils down to is what do you want, the boxes are only as good as the guy inputting the numbers. Who has the best fueling system or tuning box,I dont know, lets say which is the one for you? I couldnt care less about chute climbing, I want the stock throttle response with 40 more horse and i believe many people want that. The bullydog box is awesome and has delivered amazing throttle response day in day out, Redline has also come on board with some amazing technology in his box, Sibler is now reflashing differently and have claimed to have flawless kits, Boondocker is up there with some good kits that run pretty consistant but I found that they arent as smooth as mine and Boost it is our Canadian guy that builds top notch kits forsure and deliver the most power but some say that his box is a little behind (not my words just some opinions at the show this year). This turbo game is always improving and the mechanics dont need to change much but the electronics are what is going to set kits apart, hell maybe one of the big 3 will finally throw a turbo on from factory and offer warranty to which i will give my deposit but we will see. It is important in my opinion to actually ride the machine with a kit you are interested in, talk is cheap and when there is no snow we get bored and flap our mouths a little, I ask everyone I can for a rip and also let anyone try my rig out and let me tell you they all have thier strong points, once you ride one for awile you will know if the tune is good, does it bog or stall out in the deep pointing downhill with your exhast side buried, does it do a long pull without hitting the det or powerfade, does the on off throttle always deliver in the trees, my kit absolutely does and it puts a smile on my face every ride. Turbo kits are getting easier to install, cleaner looking and more trouble free and the prices are getting very reasonable so do your research and go from there. And for a side note I took a good look at Boost-its ski doo kit and it is gonna be way up there in my opinion, it may pull me back to the dark doo side again, I will be definately trying to get on one this year to try it out!!! I see that there has been a little bashing going on which is a waste of time and I dont want to come across as a brand loyal guy cuz I am not, just airing a little of my turbo experience and I hope it helps a little, cheers.

Finally someone who is not flappin their mouths with some good non bias info too. I personally have had a great experience on my boost it turbo works great for me and it pulls hard. I've ridden with some guys on other kits who claim they run 2x the boost as mine and u would never know. I think there's more than one good kit on the market now. BUT I would only ever buy a kit from a dealer that ANSWERS the phone when u try to call them. I have never had a hard time getting a hold of boost it. I also know from my pre turbo days that Chrisco knows the mtntk products very well and always answers his phone so would have no problem buying anything he sells.

Now fight nice ladies and let's all pray for some huge dumps of snow ️️️️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JBEST103]

I can also vouch for the Boost-It kit. Have one on my 2014 pro and it is unreal. Pulls sick hard and clean. No burbles. Ran it for the last 2 seasons in the mountains and around home. Never touched the box once. Don't even need the AFR gauge I have on the thing. Neil's customer service is top notch as well.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Never touched the box once. Don't even need the AFR gauge I have on the thing. Neil's customer service is top notch as well.

I don't think anyone is taking away from how well the Boost it kits work. I think what's being discussed though, is price point, and what you get for money spent.

It's funny in a conversation that turned into this- comparing turbo kits with fuel controllers vs. ECU reflash.... the guy's with fuel controllers brag about never having to use the box, and not even needing an AFR gauge...

Irony??

 

[Pedaling pete]

I don't think anyone is taking away from how well the Boost it kits work. I think what's being discussed though, is price point, and what you get for money spent.

It's funny in a conversation that turned into this- comparing turbo kits with fuel controllers vs. ECU reflash.... the guy's with fuel controllers brag about never having to use the box, and not even needing an AFR gauge...

Irony??

Hey dude, what kit do you run?? Im looking for a good pull n go kit

 

[piston_broke]

Not everyone can afford to drop 7-10 grand on a race gas turbo or the fuel bill to ride every weekend. I don't really understand what good trashing everyone else's kits does for the industry but I can't see a whole lot of benefits from it. If you don't want to run race fuel or have to spend a bunch of money on suspension as well, these low boost kits are pretty awesome. Give me a sled with close to 200 hp at altitude and no guages with pump gas and try to wipe the smile off my face. All this 'my kit is better and everyone else's is junk' is getting old. Lots of nice kits out there just depends on what a guy can afford.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Hey dude, what kit do you run?? Im looking for a good pull n go kit

Silber should be here in a couple weeks. I'm guessing it's going to run as good as the others from last year.