Search and rescue epidemic

[tex78]

Its not about "our" rules, its about the backcountry rules/code. This thread isn't about one person in particular, its about the choices people make in the backcountry. Far too many times I have had to help unprepared riders in bad situations and far too many times on here we've had similar stories. Never expect salvation. Mountains block cell signals, sometimes satellite tracks are too far, even if they can get a call out, choppers might not be able to fly. What if your batteries in the GPS die? Never rely on technology.

Its been said 50 times, too much HP and traction, not nearly enough skill and what happens is you get wayyy too much inexperience wayyy too far back in the backcountry. Sorry, its tough love folks, but the backcountry won't care about you personally, your family or friends. Mother Nature is a cruel bitch. Be prepared to accept that fact and come prepared......or be prepared to die as a consequence of your actions and possibly cavalier attitude.

Many times these days, people need to be far more humble than pompous, but sadly that is not the case in our iPhone/youtube hero culture, as one poster already mentioned. Look at these forums, almost everyone says they are "experienced" (too scared to admit otherwise), but most can't start a fire and wouldn't have a clue how to self winch their sled out of a tree well, etc etc. Do you know how to boil water in a plastic bottle? When I see "experienced" on these forums, I immediately assume they've been riding less than 5 seasons. People need to have some humility and recognize that its OK to NOT know everything, half the fun is in learning.

Well said dude

 

[geo]

This is really a thread about lost human knowledge not sleddin' experience.

How many reading could adapt and survive today if electricity just disappeared, forever. Sorta the same if your lost in the bush. With knowledge you are never "lost in the bush" you are just in a different house from a different era.

YOUR survival is not really about what equipment you carry in with you but more about the knowledge you carry in with you.

It's not "who you know but what you know" in "the bush".

 

[lilduke]

How many know how to make a spear? How many of you could really spear a saber tooth mountain lion with your tribe,,, er riding crew?

KLIM gear? Pff try sledding in a loin cloth. Thats hard core. lol

 

[SavageCanuck]

I too have real good bush and back country skills and never been forced to spend a night out. I had to rescue a lost hunter once ,tracked him through the snow. Most of the time it's bad decisions that get people in trouble and no common sense. 2 years ago I was leading a group of 3 of us and one guy I don't ride with too regularly didn't have any spare fuel in his strap on jerry can,was a 10 XP. Anyway sled was a pig on fuel and he never said anything and we were way the fawk back and he runs dry. We were also about 5k off trail.I had to ration my spare to barely make it to a trail head as I too eventually ran dry. I was basically adding a few liters to limp the 2 sleds onto the trail.once there we went to an intersection where I new someone would come by. Some dudes never even stopped while I waved. Eventually I was able to by a can full off someone and added to all 3 to barely make it back. I was also the only one with cash for the fuel. You have to be prepared and ride smart with common sense. I also back country hunt on my atv and use the same common sense.
It's great we have SAR but a lot of calls could be avoided.

 

[Keith Brown]

Its not about "our" rules, its about the backcountry rules/code. This thread isn't about one person in particular, its about the choices people make in the backcountry. Far too many times I have had to help unprepared riders in bad situations and far too many times on here we've had similar stories. Never expect salvation. Mountains block cell signals, sometimes satellite tracks are too far, even if they can get a call out, choppers might not be able to fly. What if your batteries in the GPS die? Never rely on technology..

As I clearly stated the question is about education. It would be very unfortunate if some one thought they could rely on "technology" to save the day and they were to die when it fails.

been said 50 times, too much HP and traction, not nearly enough skill and what happens is you get wayyy too much inexperience wayyy too far back in the backcountry. Sorry, its tough love folks, but the backcountry won't care about you personally, your family or friends. Mother Nature is a cruel bitch. Be prepared to accept that fact and come prepared......or be prepared to die as a consequence of your actions and possibly cavalier attitude..

What is the solution? Don't allow people with to much HP and traction to go sledding unless they can complete a skill test? Who would set the criteria? I am not condoning risky behaviour and my post was clear about that. The question is how can we educate people on the risks of the back country. If a person is informed to the risks and chooses to engage in high risk behaviours c'est la vie. "A brave man dies but one death a coward dies a thousand"

times these days, people need to be far more humble than pompous, but sadly that is not the case in our iPhone/youtube hero culture, as one poster already mentioned. Look at these forums, almost everyone says they are "experienced" (too scared to admit otherwise), but most can't start a fire and wouldn't have a clue how to self winch their sled out of a tree well, etc etc. Do you know how to boil water in a plastic bottle? When I see "experienced" on these forums, I immediately assume they've been riding less than 5 seasons. People need to have some humility and recognize that its OK to NOT know everything, half the fun is in learning.

Personally I feel that its more about the back country then it is about sledding. Its just that sledding provides back country access to people with no experience at all. No rant on a forum will solve that. I would like to hear the solution. I clearly don't have it. I simply asked the question. P.S. My survival strategy is very simple. Stay warm and dry. Which in most cases while sledding would involve building a fire under the biggest tree close to me. When that f#cker burns to the top move to the next one. There will be so much smoke fire in my new neighbourhood I will be surrounded be Green Peace activists before day break! What fun it would be. Now if I am in the back country a few days/weeks on horse's its a little tricker.

 

[RGM]

Just need to let Darwin runs it course. It will sort it self out in the end.

 

[skegpro]

See not just sledders.......

 

[skegpro]

 

[0neoldfart]

There are some great points brought up in this thread. We are truly fortunate to have search and rescue groups who are willing to venture into the back country to save our a$$es. I don't know the answer to the problem, I can only present my opinion (which I tend to do regularly on S&M). But it's only my opinion, which really only matters to me at the end of the day. I cannot dictate what others should / shouldn't do, nor can anyone else. It's human nature. Legislation will not help, either (ever see someone speeding?) - there will always be those who feel that they are bulletproof, entitled or simply that it can't happen to them with all of our technical marvels. BUT, technology fails sometimes, and ill prepared or not, $hit happens, and it becomes a moral responsibility to preserve human life, whether you help someone get unstuck, administer 1st aid, tow a broken sled, or help a group find a buddy who is missing. So perhaps educating those that don't know better comes down to stepping out of your comfort zone and telling it like it is... if it falls on deaf ears at least you tried to help. This is a great pastime that has grown leaps and bounds over the years - maybe educating those who simply don't know the consequences may help them make informed decisions and prepare for the worst. Personally, I do my best to offer my experience to those who accept it, and I'v spent the better part of a day digging out a group of newbies on short track sleds that I had never met, and didn't know. I altered MY riding schedule to keep an eye on them, and offer up some tips / advice / shoveling. This was a mid week ride in cold temps, and after chatting them up, it was their first time riding in the mountains, they had no idea where they were or where they were going, but they heard mountain riding was fun and wanted to try it out. They had rented beacons (no idea how to use them), so we spent the afternoon working on some back country skills. Not exactly a classroom environment, but I hope they came away with a bit more respect for Mother Nature, and even more enthusiasm for the sport, and the idea that it is VERY important to help one another, whether they are a stranger or not.

 

[skegpro]

This is my game plan if I ever have to spend the night.

https://youtu.be/P73REgj-3UE

 

[rebel]

This is my game plan if I ever have to spend the night.

https://youtu.be/P73REgj-3UE

Just have to plan ahead so you can get it built before night fall

 

[BIGHORN1]

There are some great points brought up in this thread. We are truly fortunate to have search and rescue groups who are willing to venture into the back country to save our a$$es. I don't know the answer to the problem, I can only present my opinion (which I tend to do regularly on S&M). But it's only my opinion, which really only matters to me at the end of the day. I cannot dictate what others should / shouldn't do, nor can anyone else. It's human nature. Legislation will not help, either (ever see someone speeding?) - there will always be those who feel that they are bulletproof, entitled or simply that it can't happen to them with all of our technical marvels. BUT, technology fails sometimes, and ill prepared or not, $hit happens, and it becomes a moral responsibility to preserve human life, whether you help someone get unstuck, administer 1st aid, tow a broken sled, or help a group find a buddy who is missing. So perhaps educating those that don't know better comes down to stepping out of your comfort zone and telling it like it is... if it falls on deaf ears at least you tried to help. This is a great pastime that has grown leaps and bounds over the years - maybe educating those who simply don't know the consequences may help them make informed decisions and prepare for the worst. Personally, I do my best to offer my experience to those who accept it, and I'v spent the better part of a day digging out a group of newbies on short track sleds that I had never met, and didn't know. I altered MY riding schedule to keep an eye on them, and offer up some tips / advice / shoveling. This was a mid week ride in cold temps, and after chatting them up, it was their first time riding in the mountains, they had no idea where they were or where they were going, but they heard mountain riding was fun and wanted to try it out. They had rented beacons (no idea how to use them), so we spent the afternoon working on some back country skills. Not exactly a classroom environment, but I hope they came away with a bit more respect for Mother Nature, and even more enthusiasm for the sport, and the idea that it is VERY important to help one another, whether they are a stranger or not.

Not many good old folks out there that would take the time out of there day to help educate the newbies. good on you for doing this, id ride with you anytime.

 

[ferniesnow]

Did anybody notice there were no mosquitoes, horse flies, nor sand/no-see-ums anywhere in that video?? Not a bug to be seen?

 

[skegpro]

Did anybody notice there were no mosquitoes, horse flies, nor sand/no-see-ums anywhere in that video?? Not a bug to be seen?

And the guy was young too. Impossible.

 

[Stompin Tom]

Did anybody notice there were no mosquitoes, horse flies, nor sand/no-see-ums anywhere in that video?? Not a bug to be seen?

and his shorts never got dirty?

Better plan on being lost for a long time, seems more like a keep busy project.

 

[stretch]

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Couch]

Funny thing is that anyone with $$$$ and of ages with a DL can buy the biggest sled / bike / quad / truck / car / boat / jet ski / etc.
Be careful about who you ride with, where & when you ride, know your limits & theirs, and always carry basic survival kit. Watched 5 guys last year on all new machines and not one had a piece of rope! $70k worth of sleds and they couldn't afford $5 worth of rope! Can only imagine what its like out west in the big hills. Yes accidents can and will happen but a little prep and common sense goes along way to prevent serious issues.

 

[RGM]

Funny thing is that anyone with $$$$ and of ages with a DL can buy the biggest sled / bike / quad / truck / car / boat / jet ski / etc.
Be careful about who you ride with, where & when you ride, know your limits & theirs, and always carry basic survival kit. Watched 5 guys last year on all new machines and not one had a piece of rope! $70k worth of sleds and they couldn't afford $5 worth of rope! Can only imagine what its like out west in the big hills. Yes accidents can and will happen but a little prep and common sense goes along way to prevent serious issues.

LOL was riding back from a tour and was 2Km from the truck and there was a group with a dead sled. Not one in their group had a rope! asked if if I had one, Nope, LOL not for dumb asses.

 

[geo]

How many know how to make a spear? How many of you could really spear a saber tooth mountain lion with your tribe,,, er riding crew?

KLIM gear? Pff try sledding in a loin cloth. Thats hard core. lol

Oh come on Lilduke. You know we finished off the Sabertooth awhile back. We're working on the caribou at present, or don't you read the news?

As for loin cloth riding, how old are you anyway? Did you not begin with a Cdn. Tire one piece?

Yes, we were men back then. We continued riding even after the duct tape ran out.

 

[raven-lunatic]

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE !
So I've sat on this for a couple day's now and can't seem to get it off my mind.
On new years day 4 of us headed up the back side of Turtle, we got about 1km up the single track trail and here's this guy walking out.
You could tell by his body expression that he was sure glad to see us. As I got closer to him I could tell he was half frozen so offered him a warm toque and bellaclava but he assured me he was fine as he was still pretty warm from trying to get his stuck sled out. He had i light winter jacket, light winter boots,bicycle helmet,full open face bellaclava,and not to bad of winter gloves.
He had rented the sled from one of the local renters, by himself, no backpack, no shovel, no becon, no probe.
While doubling him back to his sled we came upon a fellow who's Yamaha was burning to the ground ,we tried helping him out but was beyond being able to put it out so we carried on to where rider number one had gotten stuck.
I can't help but think had this guy had at least a shovel he would have been able to get himself out quite easily. We gave it a few side to side yanks, and ski pull and he was out.
We then took him back to rider guy that was watching his sled smolder and they doubled out.
Anyways, it's left me shaking my head to why this guy would go up a mountain by himself,never rode the mountains before, why would the rental outfit send him out without at least a friggin shovel. Anyways, glad it worked out for both guys, but it still leaves me shaking my head.