Search and rescue epidemic

[snochuk]

So a guy with a broken leg in the backcountry should just walk it out lol?

Never called 911 in your life?

Even the most prepared sometimes need help. You will be humbled someday when you dial them three numbers.

It's not the use of 911 or SAR that drew has an issue with. It's the lack of preparedness, training and the number of really really bad decissions people are making that put 911 and SAR staff in the field.
There are definatly cercomstances that arrise that call for professional help.

There are far to many extreme couch riders that are clueless in the hills.
Legit cases I'm sure he has no issues with.

Lost alone in a storm is not the storm's fault or your mommies.
Ride smart, be prepared and for chrizz sakes get trained before you go to the hills.

 

[HILCLMR]

This Christmas there is one family spending the holidays without their father, husband, brother, uncle, friend.
I do not know them personally, however my family has talked at length about what happened.
No one sets out to injure themselves, or get lost, or never return.
The big picture is that we all owe each other when in need, humanity is born within each and everyone of us.
Just remember the best minds in the world are still subject to mistakes, mistakes that cost lives.


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[tex78]

This Christmas there is one family spending the holidays without their father, husband, brother, uncle, friend.
I do not know them personally, however my family has talked at length about what happened.
No one sets out to injure themselves, or get lost, or never return.
The big picture is that we all owe each other when in need, humanity is born within each and everyone of us.
Just remember the best minds in the world are still subject to mistakes, mistakes that cost lives.


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Agree 100 %, unfortunately some leave there truck and start the day off wrong and stay going and doing the wrong choices

 

[pfi572]

Some of you completely missed the point of OP.
He is 100% correct.
A lot on the site and others have been doing these type of activities and worse for years and have never used or needed the services due to smart riding and using your head.
IMO it was a lot worse years ago due to no such thing as sat phones , spots and so on.
Jumping off huge cliffs and doing crazy stunts is fine for the movies and a helicopter standing by.
Can you imagine if no fuel injection, cold weather,deep snow and frozen up carbs this day and age? Lol
Know you can sled in arm pit deep snow and get around but doesn't mean you drop into areas you have no idea how to get out of without a escape route or sledding past your abilities.
Hats off to the services that are provided but it would be nice if folks would take some of the responsibly upon them selves.
Nobody wants peeps hurt or killed so don't try and make others feel shallow for commenting on others stupidity?
Cheers

 

[0neoldfart]

Some of you completely missed the point of OP.
He is 100% correct.
A lot on the site and others have been doing these type of activities and worse for years and have never used or needed the services due to smart riding and using your head.
IMO it was a lot worse years ago due to no such thing as sat phones , spots and so on.
Jumping off huge cliffs and doing crazy stunts is fine for the movies and a helicopter standing by.
Can you imagine if no fuel injection, cold weather,deep snow and frozen up carbs this day and age? Lol
Know you can sled in arm pit deep snow and get around but doesn't mean you drop into areas you have no idea how to get out of without a escape route or sledding past your abilities.
Hats off to the services that are provided but it would be nice if folks would take some of the responsibly upon them selves.
Nobody wants peeps hurt or killed so don't try and make others feel shallow for commenting on others stupidity?
Cheers

No one goes out with the intention of not coming back, plain and simple. My personal take on this topic: The sleds have evolved tremendously over the past 10 years. One can walk into any dealership and purchase ANY new mountain sled, and take it to places they have NO business being. Go back several years, and only the experienced rider could get to some of the places we currently ride, using his or her talent, and good decision making skills. I'm not saying that there isn't skill involved to ride, but the newer sleds simply make it easier, and for the most part, the MAJORITY of riders can NOT ride a new stock sled to its limits, let alone one that has a pump or race gas turbo or big bore kit with a 3" track. But that stock sled will take you into areas that were not accessible a few years ago. The kicker is this: aside from injuries or break downs, sometimes experience (and I don't mean holding it WOT) is the only thing that will get you out of a bad spot. I've been riding in the mountains over 20 years, and although I have the equipment that will get me to hell and back, I don't take unnecessary risks, as I have responsibilities outside of sledding for the day. (This is that voice of reason that pops into your consciousness from time to time). Be honest with yourself about your riding abilities and ride within them, ensure your machinery is kept in top operating condition, don't count on PPE (avy gear) to save your life, use your head and prepare for the worst possible scenario (IE: 1st aid / breakdowns / winter survival situations, and have FUN on your own terms. To often a friendly "pissing contest" will result in a disaster. Yes, I am an "old fart", but I have enough broken bones and battle scars to prove that riding as if you're bulletproof does have its consequences. Merry Xmas to all, have fun and stay safe out there.

 

[LennyR]

Seems to me a lot of inexperienced or newer riders need to understand you probably need more in your day supplies than a sat phone or a spot messenger and the newest helmet cam. I swear a lot of guys think it's actually someone else's responsibility to come and get them , regardless of what duma$$ risky unprepared thing they were doing. Like its their right to be rescued , I'm in trouble, come save me , I have no food no water no way to start a fire , no extra clothes, no extra gas , machine is stuck in a creek, no rope, no tools, ...... But I have a sat phone. And I have a family depending on me getting home safe , so hurry.
And, yeah it's not politically correct to say some of these things , but that's part of how we got to this situation, can't hurt anybody's feelings or make them feel bad about themselves, even if they have proven over and over that they are a bit short of brains or common sense, and it's our fault. Pfft.
And yeah $hit happens, and someday it may be me, but at least I know I've tried to take all the steps to minimize the risk, not exacerbate it or totally depend on someone else to babysit me when $hit goes south. Things like broken bones, broken machines, impossible conditions, yep could happen to any of us, but all of us should be constantly striving to decrease the occurrences by increasing preparedness.
another thing I think we don't do well, again reason so often given is political correctness, is read and understand exactly what did happen in so many of these cases where there was rescue needed, so we can all learn from it instead of talking gossip and assumption.
me, I think there needs to be some sort of financial or some kind of compensation from the recipient of these S & R or chopper rescues, not sure what or how , but free becomes an expectation and increases people's reliance IMO.
I totally have empathy for the lost persons and the families but that doesn't mean we can't talk about these instances , as horrible as the outcomes may be. That's how we learn , some of us.

 

[Barker]

Last year and this year has been insane for the amount of lost sledders. Wtf is wrong with people. Do they not see risk. I have been mountain riding forever and never been close to spending the night. That happens to idiots imo. The decisions your making through the day will determine whether you go home. Plain and simple. As the day light runs out you should be well on your way out. No more playing or exploring. The back country will be closed and We will be stuck in little riding parks if this keeps up. Big brother will make sure even the stupid come home. Funny how mister big sledders that know it all are the first to break into tears and when they realize they are spending the night. Is dropping into those trees at 1:30 in dec worth risking a night on the hill. I really wish there wasn't search and rescue. You live with your own decisions and die by them. Mountain sledders should be taught by experienced riders how to be safe and how to come home. Buying a skidoo xm doesn't make you a back country rider.

Rant over

Next time you or your family are in a car accident we will be sure not to call ambulance or fire department they shouldn't even them...Your out on the road and got yourself into that situation either die or figure it out...come on talk about spouting off on the Internet. Why not spend some of your time and money maybe trying to teach people that may not be as educated as you instead of wishing harm in them if they make a mistake.
Rant over....

I hope every one has a great Christmas and is safe!

 

[snochuk]

Next time you or your family are in a car accident we will be sure not to call ambulance or fire department they shouldn't even them...Your out on the road and got yourself into that situation either die or figure it out...come on talk about spouting off on the Internet. Why not spend some of your time and money maybe trying to teach people that may not be as educated as you instead of wishing harm in them if they make a mistake.
Rant over....

I hope every one has a great Christmas and is safe!

I think you should read all of drews posts - he is not against SAR or 911 use, he has issues with people's bad choices, lack of training and preparedness who have no kn.wledge of the new area they are in except for their leader!
There are a lot of people way to far from the cabin that are clueless if something goes wrong.
Justlook at some of the threads that get started on this site - red flags all over the place on peps lack of experience. I am hopingthey have a strong mentor/leader to teach them as we all need to learn from someone.
Even well trained experienced peps that know their riding areas need help at times.

What is sad is loosing even one person due to lack of overall preparedness.
Without honest discussion on what happened from those involved there can be no learning and corrective action/chanes by others.
Just like any workplace incident the root causes need to be exposed - or else he same tragedies will rear their ugly heads again and again!

Failure to learn is just a wasted tragedy!
Rant over

 

[pfi572]

Next time you or your family are in a car accident we will be sure not to call ambulance or fire department they shouldn't even them...Your out on the road and got yourself into that situation either die or figure it out...come on talk about spouting off on the Internet. Why not spend some of your time and money maybe trying to teach people that may not be as educated as you instead of wishing harm in them if they make a mistake.
Rant over....

I hope every one has a great Christmas and is safe!

In the percentage that believe others should look after poor judgment and lack of knowledge hey???
Read OP again !
Cheers

 

[Barker]

I think you should read all of drews posts - he is not against SAR or 911 use, he has issues with people's bad choices, lack of training and preparedness who have no kn.wledge of the new area they are in except for their leader!
There are a lot of people way to far from the cabin that are clueless if something goes wrong.
Justlook at some of the threads that get started on this site - red flags all over the place on peps lack of experience. I am hopingthey have a strong mentor/leader to teach them as we all need to learn from someone.
Even well trained experienced peps that know their riding areas need help at times.

What is sad is loosing even one person due to lack of overall preparedness.
Without honest discussion on what happened from those involved there can be no learning and corrective action/chanes by others.
Just like any workplace incident the root causes need to be exposed - or else he same tragedies will rear their ugly heads again and again!

Failure to learn is just a wasted tragedy!
Rant over

yes I know what is trying to be said, it's the way it's coming across. We all know there's people out there that don't know what there doing, that don't have the knowledge and preparation, and some don't want to know or hear it. Seems like every page I turn too lately is how I seen these guys with there jacked up trucks more money then brains, then post on here like they know everything and that would never happen to me....."these guys I seen out there man are they dumb!!" Spouting off how they would never do that. So what did you do about the situation?? NOTHING! Came on here blabbing about it. If it bothers you so much make it your mandate to stop it. Quit dwelling on the problems. If we want to discuss this matter lets hear some solutions then??

 

[Barry Barton]

Went riding last weekend had a great time but got their late by one day one of our guys had the pleasure of riding with a different group and said thank god your here. The group he rode with dropped in a creek 30 feet down with a 60 percent slope with a good chance of sliding and thought nothing of it plus he got stuck and by himself for a hour digging himself out which pissed him off. Our group ride close together and carry the garmin 650 which has helped us quite a few times for finding each other and helping us get out of new areas.

 

[drew562]

So a guy with a broken leg in the backcountry should just walk it out lol?

Never called 911 in your life?

Even the most prepared sometimes need help. You will be humbled someday when you dial them three numbers.

Thats not even close to what I meant. I don't want to hear any sad stories. Also I'm very worried for our sport. We need big terrain and fresh tracks. With the huge amount of sledders and areas dwindling the (lost sledders) is just more negative amo for the haters. Clear and deliberate decisions need to be made every trip. If it's a bad weather day doing a drop has a high risk. Leta say you break your back and due to poor weather the choppers won't fly your in for the longest couple days of your life. Maybe save the risky stuff for sunny days. Also ride with like minded responsible people that have your back. Make plans together. Even when riding with a guy who (knows the area). You still need to pay attention. What if you had to go home alone. Could you ?. I didn't want to bash but to have people think a little. Be safe and Merry Christmas to all except for Heli Skiers.

 

[RGM]

Not to related but if you are stuck with no radio and trying to get attention banging your shovel makes a pretty loud noise.

 

[ferniesnow]

Thats not even close to what I meant. I don't want to hear any sad stories. Also I'm very worried for our sport. We need big terrain and fresh tracks. With the huge amount of sledders and areas dwindling the (lost sledders) is just more negative amo for the haters. Clear and deliberate decisions need to be made every trip. If it's a bad weather day doing a drop has a high risk. Leta say you break your back and due to poor weather the choppers won't fly your in for the longest couple days of your life. Maybe save the risky stuff for sunny days. Also ride with like minded responsible people that have your back. Make plans together. Even when riding with a guy who (knows the area). You still need to pay attention. What if you had to go home alone. Could you ?. I didn't want to bash but to have people think a little. Be safe and Merry Christmas to all except for Heli Skiers.

Well said. Not a lot of young riders (and some of the older ones also) out there don't even realize the seriousness of some of the consequences. Go into the trees and park the sled just for this exercise; get off the sled and try to walk 100m, look around for some dead branches and witches hair, take it back to the sled and make a fire. Do it all over again in another 15 minutes when the little bit of fire material you have gathered is all burnt. Riding trees puts one in the midst of the forest but that doesn't mean you can get nice dry wood to last the night. An old burn would be great (like Eagles) but it takes a little save to be able to gather the right kind of wood for the task at hand. Too many riders take this aspect of spending a night on the hill way too lightly let alone a couple of nights because the chopper can't fly due to low ceiling.

 

[geo]

Right on OP. This is definitely an issue for the sport to be concerned with. How far back can a new sledder on modern equipment go today? How big an area is needed today to challenge a sled and rider?

It's hard to imagine how quickly back-country skills have disappeared with the MAJORITY of sledders or how FAR back you can get in a couple of hours unless you came from a time when 121x1/2" track with a carb or two was a sled.
At all the pay to play areas, that have taken over all the easy to access spots, it is taken for granted to ride a groomed trail to the cabin. That same ride, not too long ago, may have taken all day for 3 or 4 good riders working together after a fresh dump. It was a hoot too.
The back bowls that were not accessed until Jan. or Feb. are now ridden over in Nov. or Dec. and ducking a helicopter is just another day.

Something clicks in your mind about your own human limitations after getting unstuck or unsticking a sled 3 or 4 times an hour all day. You also learned VERY quickly where your you and the machine can or can not go based on snow conditions very early. Momentum can only take you so far and throttle control-terrian education can save a lot of effort.

Getting unstuck and riding not to get stuck were your first lessons in snowmobiling. Not, possibly, your last.

 

[woody_tobius_jr]

Well said. Not a lot of young riders (and some of the older ones also) out there don't even realize the seriousness of some of the consequences. Go into the trees and park the sled just for this exercise; get off the sled and try to walk 100m, look around for some dead branches and witches hair, take it back to the sled and make a fire. Do it all over again in another 15 minutes when the little bit of fire material you have gathered is all burnt. Riding trees puts one in the midst of the forest but that doesn't mean you can get nice dry wood to last the night. An old burn would be great (like Eagles) but it takes a little save to be able to gather the right kind of wood for the task at hand. Too many riders take this aspect of spending a night on the hill way too lightly let alone a couple of nights because the chopper can't fly due to low ceiling.

I agree. For the most part, all the dead branches are about 15-20' down near the bottom. The part of the trees that are still showing are the live tops. Hard to burn them.


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[tmo1620]

Next time you or your family are in a car accident we will be sure not to call ambulance or fire department they shouldn't even them...Your out on the road and got yourself into that situation either die or figure it out...come on talk about spouting off on the Internet. Why not spend some of your time and money maybe trying to teach people that may not be as educated as you instead of wishing harm in them if they make a mistake.
Rant over....

I hope every one has a great Christmas and is safe!

This right here, another stupid post by a stupid man, where was mention of ambulance and fire department to save his family if in a car accident? Hes talking search and rescue not highway helpers


Sent from my iPhone because who uses a computer anymore

 

[dgjordan]

Thats not even close to what I meant. I don't want to hear any sad stories. Also I'm very worried for our sport. We need big terrain and fresh tracks. With the huge amount of sledders and areas dwindling the (lost sledders) is just more negative amo for the haters. Clear and deliberate decisions need to be made every trip. If it's a bad weather day doing a drop has a high risk. Leta say you break your back and due to poor weather the choppers won't fly your in for the longest couple days of your life. Maybe save the risky stuff for sunny days. Also ride with like minded responsible people that have your back. Make plans together. Even when riding with a guy who (knows the area). You still need to pay attention. What if you had to go home alone. Could you ?. I didn't want to bash but to have people think a little. Be safe and Merry Christmas to all except for Heli Skiers.

except for heli skiers hahahaha classic !

well said my man!

 

[imdoo'n]

I agree. For the most part, all the dead branches are about 15-20' down near the bottom. The part of the trees that are still showing are the live tops. Hard to burn them.


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lol, al those on here who are going to start roaring bonfires are clueless in starting fires n the back country. .

 

[ferniesnow]

lol, al those on here who are going to start roaring bonfires are clueless in starting fires n the back country. .

So enlighten us ol' magical one!