Roll Over Shut Down Switch

[Teth-Air]

So when I am at sled shows selling our Cordless Teth-Air, I often get the Yamaha guys coming up to me and tell me of horror stories about the time they got bucked off their sleds in chest deep powder. These same guys go on to tell me how their sled rolled upside down and the motor seized at idle before they could swim through the deep powder and get to the kill switch. We at Source innovations have been thinking about this scenario and are working on a new product that incorporates a roll over switch with a user selectable timer. I am asking for feedback on this idea? Please let me know if this is a useful idea for these 4 stokes. Thanks, Chris

 

[maxwell]

So when I am at sled shows selling our Cordless Teth-Air, I often get the Yamaha guys coming up to me and tell me of horror stories about the time they got bucked off their sleds in chest deep powder. These same guys go on to tell me how their sled rolled upside down and the motor seized at idle before they could swim through the deep powder and get to the kill switch. We at Source innovations have been thinking about this scenario and are working on a new product that incorporates a roll over switch with a user selectable timer. I am asking for feedback on this idea? Please let me know if this is a useful idea for these 4 stokes. Thanks, Chris

I want it for my 2 stroke. As soon as it's close to upside Down it shuts off. Eliminates that aspect of getting eaten by your snowmobile incase you forget to out your tether on.


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[1100]

Ya if you could combine that with your teth air setup, along with an oil shut off valve I would be purchasing one.

 

[Teth-Air]

I want it for my 2 stroke. As soon as it's close to upside Down it shuts off. Eliminates that aspect of getting eaten by your snowmobile incase you forget to out your tether on.


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It would be 1-5 seconds delay at this point. My son actually will start his sled upside down, hit the throttle and roll it in to the hillside all in one motion, in order to recover from being upside down. Some delay is sometime necessary.

 

[TylerG]

It would be 1-5 seconds delay at this point. My son actually will start his sled upside down, hit the throttle and roll it in to the hillside all in one motion, in order to recover from being upside down. Some delay is sometime necessary.

1-5 Seconds is still better than minutes if you're stuck under your machine with the track chewing at your skin. waiting for your riding buddy to come help you.

 

[Teth-Air]

Ya if you could combine that with your teth air setup, along with an oil shut off valve I would be purchasing one.

The relay output could operate both engine shutdown and oil shut off valve.

 

[moyiesledhead]

5 seconds is too long for a 4 stroke. 1 second would probably do it though. My son's Nytro was upside down with the throttle stuck open for less than 5 seconds before it shut down on low oil pressure, but the engine was still done. Made for some pretty expensive video in Followcam 2! New engine got a rollover kit before it ever left the shop.

 

[JungleJim]

Chris, I like this idea and after having spent big $'s rebuilding Ty's Nytro that had been upside down would suggest this could be great! As quick as possible please and relatively small distance away from your sled to activate... Thanks! Jim

 

[fidorama]

great idea, for 2 stokes as well. Have had mine idle upside down just long enough to draw an air bubble into the oil pump, loosing its prime. the sled actually finished that ride, but seized at next startup.

 

[moyiesledhead]

great idea, for 2 stokes as well. Have had mine idle upside down just long enough to draw an air bubble into the oil pump, loosing its prime. the sled actually finished that ride, but seized at next startup.

He already has it for 2-strokes. Only need to shut them down. The addition to 4-strokes would be a valve to stop the engine oil from pizzing out onto the snow.....like a Jacobsen rollover valve, only tetherless.

 

[Teth-Air]

Just to clarify, the roll over solenoid valves are already a patented idea and we do not intend to get into making them. That said, this could run a roll over valve as well as the kill switch. The time delay is selectable by the user. I really appreciate the feedback guys. Hearing from the 2 stroke guys is appreciated too. Chris

 

[moyiesledhead]

So it would sense when the sled's upside down....and shut it down independently of the cordless tether function you already have?

If so that would have saved my son's engine. He was actually trapped directly under the sled and unable to pull his tether.

 

[Teth-Air]

So it would sense when the sled's upside down....and shut it down independently of the cordless tether function you already have?

If so that would have saved my son's engine. He was actually trapped directly under the sled and unable to pull his tether.

It sounds like the same thing happened to your son as what happened to my son. This incident is one of the reasons we developed the Cordless Teth-Air. The transmitter can be covered or pushed down in the snow to force a shutdown even close up. The roll over switch is part of one of our new projects that we have been testing last season and this season. The roll over switch was considered necessary after I got pinned last year under a Arctic Cat I tried, that had no tether. The track flew apart but the motor survived. Very scary.


We are not ready to manufacture anything new quite yet and these things can take years but the technology we are testing is very exciting. Keep an eye out for us in Fernie or Revy if you want to see something really cool.

 

[maxwell]

So it would sense when the sled's upside down....and shut it down independently of the cordless tether function you already have?

If so that would have saved my son's engine. He was actually trapped directly under the sled and unable to pull his tether.

Te teth air may not shut the sled off if your pinned underneath etc. you may be physically unable to pull your tether or get your body far enough away from the sled for the teth air to trip.

This is a great idea and I want the first one. Can I snowcheck lol


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[Teth-Air]

Te teth air may not shut the sled off if your pinned underneath etc. you may be physically unable to pull your tether or get your body far enough away from the sled for the teth air to trip.

This is a great idea and I want the first one. Can I snowcheck lol


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It is possible to be pinned and not be able to get your arm buried or covered (with transmitter)but I have always been able to shut it down. Sometimes when upside down the receiver antenna gets buried and you don't even need to cover you arm.

 

[zx4ever]

It would be great if you could hook this up with a existing roll over valve system like the Jacobsen one that I already have. My biggest problem is remembering to hook myself to the teather

 

[Nytroman]

Te teth air may not shut the sled off if your pinned underneath etc. you may be physically unable to pull your tether or get your body far enough away from the sled for the teth air to trip.

This is a great idea and I want the first one. Can I snowcheck lol


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If your transmitter cant see the antenna, blocked by snow, body, anything it will shut down not as quick as a hard wire but it will.

 

[Lund]

Just to clarify, the roll over solenoid valves are already a patented idea and we do not intend to get into making them. That said, this could run a roll over valve as well as the kill switch. The time delay is selectable by the user. I really appreciate the feedback guys. Hearing from the 2 stroke guys is appreciated too. Chris

It could be a good idea but would it be 100% functional. Only real world testing will prove that.
The roll over solenoid system was USELESS and extremely unreliable. It also cause the ECU to malfunction.

Here were the issues and is an issue. Using a solenoid check ball to prevent engine oil from coming out is a great idea when solenoid is new but in little time especially if you have rolled the sled. The check ball gets gummed up with oil.
Not just clean oil but condensated oil that is very sticky. This causes the check ball to hang up and we have seen both stuck in close or open possitions. Most of the time though in the open position.
As for the ECU problem, we found a percentage of sleds effected by this electrically activated solenoid, giving them runnability issues found mostly at or near 3/4 to WO throttle possitions. Misses and stumbling, the disconnection of the R/O system returns the sleds runnability 100% every time.
Chad at CR-racing no longer carries or installs the R/O because of this, neither does the Yamaha dealer in town here after we and CR brought this to their attention.

 

[judger101]

It could be a good idea but would it be 100% functional. Only real world testing will prove that.
The roll over solenoid system was USELESS and extremely unreliable. It also cause the ECU to malfunction.

Here were the issues and is an issue. Using a solenoid check ball to prevent engine oil from coming out is a great idea when solenoid is new but in little time especially if you have rolled the sled. The check ball gets gummed up with oil.
Not just clean oil but condensated oil that is very sticky. This causes the check ball to hang up and we have seen both stuck in close or open possitions. Most of the time though in the open position.
As for the ECU problem, we found a percentage of sleds effected by this electrically activated solenoid, giving them runnability issues found mostly at or near 3/4 to WO throttle possitions. Misses and stumbling, the disconnection of the R/O system returns the sleds runnability 100% every time.
Chad at CR-racing no longer carries or installs the R/O because of this, neither does the Yamaha dealer in town here after we and CR brought this to their attention.

so are you guys up there running anything to stop oil drain?

 

[Lund]

The best way at this time we found was the good old catch bottle and tether.
We cut open the OEM motor oil reservoir to check out its construction and baffeling, found that the way it was constructed no oil is basically lost when upside down or laying on L.H., clutch side. But oil will be lost when laying on R.H., oil reservoir side.
So the key was hose routing combined with a catch can or bottle.
Under the right situation oil can still escape but 90% of the time it doesn't if done properly. Also it is very important once you upright the sled to allow time for the oil to drain back to tank and the system to reprime it self. Common practice is once uprighted wait a minute before restart, start motor and run for 5-6 seconds at idle. Resart again and make sure all warning lights are out.

We use Pingel tethers on most all custom Nytro's.