Bnorth
Active VIP Member
This is basically just a thread of Teth Air justifying why he will continue to ride Polaris instead of going to a turbo Doo. The only surprise is that takethebounce isn't in here pumping his tires.
Power to weight ratio or just power?
- Thread starter Teth-Air
- Start date
maxwell
Active VIP Member
jhurkot
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It should get quite a lot to the track minus losses for the belt drive and track rolling resistance.
Got boost want snow
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Big disadvantage to ev for us in kakwa is the 50 km trail in and 50 out. No charging stations at the cabin. And buddies aren't going to drag a generator for me.
- Thread starter
- #45
Teth-Air
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No I am simply questioning my goals for the perfect sled and getting feedback from others. Is this movement toward heavier sleds really worthwhile? Why would I want a sled that is more like a Yamaha than what I have now? Some have very valid points. for example: If I was a really heavy dude it may be a better direction.
I am not going to change anyone's mind on what they think is best, but I'm sure the manufacturers design their sleds toward the masses. If the masses want power at any price than that will be the direction of design. By hearing everyone's opinion I might be able to get an idea of what sleds will look like in 3-5 years. That is my real goal with this thread.
p.s. I always see guys comparing the Polaris with the chaindrive, steel driveshaft, metal bumper, solid snowflap and 3" track (and often e-start) for weight. The reality Polaris also gives the lighter weight sled that is around 7 lbs lighter too or about 37 lbs compared to one also with e-start. It does have a 2.6" track that often works better than the 3" version. It can spin faster to go farther. I wish for a 2.6" lug x 174 x 15" track with 3.5" pitch. A lighter sled does not need as much lug but it can benefit from maximum flotation.
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Bikeswithtrax
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I carry a 3 gallon can, and I don't ride with it all day.
I drop it and go ride, on the way out now low on gas, i stop wherever I left it and dump it into the sled so I can make it back to the parking lot.
I sure would not ride with it strapped to my sled while climbing and riding technical terrain. I also don't dump it into the tank so the weight is till there, just further ahead. My goal is to be headed out on fumes, and just make it to the gas can. Maybe I am weird, but it has worked for me for the 25 years I have been riding.
Bikeswithtrax
Active VIP Member
I have the chaincase model with the 3 inch lug track, but no E start.
No rear flap at all since it was torn off on a ride. The can is 9.5 lbs lighter than the stock suitcase, otherwise stock. It feels pretty light to me, no complaints. I am sure the 800 weighs less than the 850 to, not that I checked...it just seems logical the 850 is a bit heavier.
I really wish it was the 174 instead of 163. I would be willing to add a few pounds to have the 174.
0neoldfart
Active VIP Member
I think it boils down to personal preference and age demographic. I ride differently then I did 15-20 yrs ago, and don’t get out nearly as much as I’d like. My disposable income isn’t what it used to be either. So I’m not a tight tree rider, cause I simply don’t have the reflexes I used to to avoid stuffing a sled into a tree well, and I’d rather ride then repair. These days I ride a 4S Turbo King Cat, and have a lot of fun at 50+ years old.
I’ve had a ton of 2S sleds that I’ve spent a pile of money on - owned Doos, Polaris, and Cat (among other brands), & even built a snow bike last year that was a gas to ride.
Ride what you like, stay safe & have fun, as this is what the sport is all about imho.
I’ve had a ton of 2S sleds that I’ve spent a pile of money on - owned Doos, Polaris, and Cat (among other brands), & even built a snow bike last year that was a gas to ride.
Ride what you like, stay safe & have fun, as this is what the sport is all about imho.
Rene G
Active VIP Member
I’m a fairly light guy and I want a fairly light sled. I have a Poo 800 163 that I’m really happy with, however, I could always use more POWER!! 
AreWeThereYet
Active VIP Member
I’m a fairly light guy and I want a fairly light sled. I have a Poo 800 163 that I’m really happy with, however, I could always use more POWER!!
I don't even use what I currently have.
I’m not a light guy as my Mom always said I was a “husky” boy ha ha! A few pounds one way or the other doesn’t matter to me just don’t make it a 100 lbs or I might as well go back to my Turbo Yammies. Nobody in our family has left a Doo 850 175 in the garage to choose to ride a much lighter Axys 800 163 also sitting there so for us power and ergo features are worth more. If I really want more performance I’d have to get serious about slimming down, but that would involve cutting back on beers at wing night which is a line I’m not prepared to cross! I’ll leave the light weight high performance riding to the highly tuned six pack ab dudes... that ship sailed along time ago for this cowboy.
Bikeswithtrax
Active VIP Member
That one noted earlier also had a heavy bumper and skid plate added, plus full fuel...i bet also some other items to, it all adds up.
I had 1 friend mention to me that you can notice the extra weight over the NA expert and feels kinda top heavy.
says the extra power over the expert isn't worth it.
that's just 1 guy and one opinion though.
says the extra power over the expert isn't worth it.
that's just 1 guy and one opinion though.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
i duno about that, if a guy really gives this machine a good honest try. There is no denying how much faster it is. noticably faster. like 40hp would be. If you hop on it at 5000ft in garbage snow for 30 seconds ya your not going to be impressed. But spend a day on it in revy at 7000ft in 2ft of snow and it would be impossible not to notice how much better it is compared to a stock expert.
yeah I haven't even tried it yet. but hopefully soon
maxwell
Active VIP Member
to the original question,
If Polaris and Arctic cat take the 400lb sled route to acheive the same power to weight ratio then why wouldnt they turbo that machine and take the market? The Skidoo turbo didnt add much weight, skidoo now has a turbo platform to reduce weight from.
Ive never rode a 400lb machine so i cant tell you if i would take that or the 850T, but i do know that having the extra 40hp at 8000ft makes the 550lb machine feel extremely light. The sleds are all so close in weight right now with the current choices the power to weight ratio is way futher ahead with the turbo skidoo.
Like mentioned above, the costs would be astronomical to build a 400lb sled, i think its coming though, You can build a Full carbon fibre XM800 that is 410lbs. right now thats an 60k Build and far from what we would consider a durable machine.
I bet they could mass produce it enough to keep it in the turbo skidoo price range to make it feasible. But by the time that happens, skidoo will have a Turbo version so after riding this 850T machine, My choice will always be the turbo if they can always maintain the higher Power to weight ratio. If thats a 400lb sled vs a 450lb sled i dont care, so long as the power to weight ratio is higher im on it, unless its a yamaha.
There are other factors to consider here, the skidoo right now has a fairly bulletproof setup. I watch my CAT friends bending tunnels like they going out of style, i watch my polaris and cat friends overheating like cooling capacity was an afterthought from engineering. At what point do you sacrifice drive ability and durability for weight?
If Polaris and Arctic cat take the 400lb sled route to acheive the same power to weight ratio then why wouldnt they turbo that machine and take the market? The Skidoo turbo didnt add much weight, skidoo now has a turbo platform to reduce weight from.
Ive never rode a 400lb machine so i cant tell you if i would take that or the 850T, but i do know that having the extra 40hp at 8000ft makes the 550lb machine feel extremely light. The sleds are all so close in weight right now with the current choices the power to weight ratio is way futher ahead with the turbo skidoo.
Like mentioned above, the costs would be astronomical to build a 400lb sled, i think its coming though, You can build a Full carbon fibre XM800 that is 410lbs. right now thats an 60k Build and far from what we would consider a durable machine.
I bet they could mass produce it enough to keep it in the turbo skidoo price range to make it feasible. But by the time that happens, skidoo will have a Turbo version so after riding this 850T machine, My choice will always be the turbo if they can always maintain the higher Power to weight ratio. If thats a 400lb sled vs a 450lb sled i dont care, so long as the power to weight ratio is higher im on it, unless its a yamaha.
There are other factors to consider here, the skidoo right now has a fairly bulletproof setup. I watch my CAT friends bending tunnels like they going out of style, i watch my polaris and cat friends overheating like cooling capacity was an afterthought from engineering. At what point do you sacrifice drive ability and durability for weight?
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I agree with you on the Power to Weight discussion as there are so many variables (power, balance, weight distribution, reliability, driveability, etc.). What are your thoughts on a 175 vs 165 for the T850? I like my Expert vs my 175 Summit X, but wondering how much is due to overall package of the Expert (thinner handle bars, different, shocks, shorter tunnel, smaller seat) so maybe a T850 Expert 175 might be close but offer more flotation which then help out on the Power to Weight?
powder dreams
Active member
mawell where are you spending all this time riding at 8000ft around here? you seem to be gaining elevation constantly here when most of us typically ride in the 5-6500 ft range your turbo 850 slowly becomes less relevant. hell i might as well just ride my sidewinder....
GreyGhost
Active VIP Member
IMO a lighter sled/lighter rider uses up less hp. Like mentioned above some of us don’t want to go on a diet or want to spend to get the sled on a diet. You need a balance of everything; light, power, strength, and manoeuvrability. Polaris is really innovative when it comes to trying to lighten up things but falls short on the quality department. Cat is really good at making sure that everything is top quality and is reliable. SkiDoo is right in the middle, good quality and light.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
I think you will like it Dan. My 19 is the beat sled Ive owned, yes its also not stock but my 09 mod had that title till now. Im very pleased with my 19. 850 miles, no belts blown and it works very well.
I rode maxwells turbo And I did not notice this extra weight enough to bother me, I also run the stock can on my 19 so the turbo weight is very minimal IMO.
The turbo is the icing on the cake, yes the turbo 850 dos make boost.
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