Pipes

[LennyR]

Am I wrong in thinking that the claim some pipe builders are making is you can bolt on the pipe, not change the mapping , not install a fuel controller, but get a large hp gain is a bit misleading ?
Is it not , more air out needs more air and fuel in to increase hp output ?

 

[ferniesnow]

Makes sense to me Lenny! We all know there are a lot of misconceptions with advertising........

 

[neilsleder]

Am I wrong in thinking that the claim some pipe builders are making is you can bolt on the pipe, not change the mapping , not install a fuel controller, but get a large hp gain is a bit misleading ?
Is it not , more air out needs more air and fuel in to increase hp output ?

They might make the claimed hp but where at in the power band do they make that? If they make it mid range or bottom end that must be how they get away with it. Most sleds do stay in that range for long periods of time.


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[deaner]

Yeah I guess with fuel injected sleds its a little more cut and dried hey? On a carb sled it can be flowing more air and pulling more fuel threw the same jets. But a FI sled with no programmer.......I would say its not making any more power, but Im no expert.

 

[duck]

It will all depend on how "safe" the program is related to jetting at stock conditions. Pipe manufacturers test and use the extra available fuel that the manufacturer puts there as a safety factor. There should be more power, probably more related to a shift in the torque curve which may require a clutching change.

 

[LennyR]

Thats sorta what i was thinking, but not sure. If they're just scavenging or minimizing the fatness thats been i assume built in to protect a bit against warranty claims, is it realistic to assume you could realize the same or similar gains by keeping the stock pipe and just installing a controller ?

 

[Bnorth]

It seems that pipes that do not require programmers basically just move the powerband around. It takes fuel to make power not air so more air without more fuel it isn't making more power, the two need to work in tandem.

 

[Weirboondocking]

More power comes from a combination of more fuel and air/larger combustion!!! so if you stock mapping is really fat you could see small gains by getting more oxygen/air, or if there is a fat point in the stock mapping they may gain a bit in that area.

How much will you see in gains? probably not all that much... getting your clutching set up properly for elevation, riding style, and motor will probably be more noticeable.
I see gains in clients sleds all the time with simply adjusting belt deflection.


and when did he maxwell say this?

Originally posted by maxwell "at the end of the day the pro rmk is a far superior snowmachine"

 

[LennyR]

It seems that pipes that do not require programmers basically just move the powerband around. It takes fuel to make power not air so more air without more fuel it isn't making more power, the two need to work in tandem.

Adding a pipe gets more air out right ? not any more in does it ?

 

[Weirboondocking]

Thats right letting more out... allowing more to come in. It seems funny thinking of it that simplified, but thats what it comes down to.
There is more to it like, scavenging, air flow, pipe heat ... that pipe builders have more to consider then a big open exit for the motor.

 

[sledneck_03]

if you have to add more weight because of "more power" from a pipe, is it really more power? or...... what?

 

[brian h]

one way to rember is if you cannot suck more you cannot blow more,air supply and exhaust both work together

 

[retiredpop]

Here is some pipe theory for you guys:

In a two-stroke engine a certain amount of exhaust pressure is needed to prevent unburned fuel/air mixture from passing right through the cylinders into the exhaust. This is achieved by the expansion chamber connected to the exhaust port of the engine. The expansion chamber consists of 5 main sections: Header, Diffuser or Inverter cone, Mid section, Baffle cone and finally a Stinger. As exhaust is pushed through the header into the diffuser cone a negative pulse is created, pulling fuel from the engine. Once exhaust enters the mid section, baffle cone and stinger, a positive pulse is created which sends a percentage of the exhaust wave back towards the engine and a certain amount out through the stinger. The stinger acts as a “pressure bleed valve” creating a “plugging effect” necessary for the expansion chamber to perform as designed. An oversized stinger evacuates to much pressure (heat) and an undersized stinger creates to much pressure (heat). As the exhaust wave has not yet reached the atmosphere, the same holds true for the muffler. The muffler acts as an extension of the stinger and must maintain the correct pressure (plugging effect) or performance levels will suffer as a result.

General thinking for a performance muffler is that bigger (more flow) is better. While this is true to a point on a 4 stroke engine, this is not the case on a 2 stroke. A 2 stroke muffler must be tuned to the expansion chamber to provide proper flow characteristics for optimum performance.
When it comes to tuning a two stroke, lets face it the OE’s now what there doing. For an aftermarket company to truely make additional power by just adding a muffler, the engine has to be run slightly leaner. This is accomplished by designing a slightly more restrictive, that’s right, restrictive muffler that creates more heat. It’s a fine line and any gains are minimal at best, usually going unnoticed in the real world.

 

[slededjr]

Bang on. One of the main reasons Jaws is a top builder is because all if their pipes and cans are flow tested. Not just one perfected then mass produced. All are tested before being released. Part of their QC.

 

[oler1234]

I wonder how that all applies to side dumped pipes and turbos...

great info

 

[takethebounce]

A pretty decent BRP tech told me that Doo uses their pipe to limit the rpm on the etec. They were also supposed to go to a different pipe at one point which would increase the top rpm and increase peak hp as well but changed their minds likely for longevity reasons.

I have run different pipes on my own etec and seen a difference. I have ridden others that have been quite modded that deffinelty pulled quite strong.

I have run different pipes on my two stroke bikes as well. Some limit the top rpm heavily and increase the bottom end torque. Not FI of course.

There is more to pipes than just slapping one together that's for sure.




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[Cat401]

so what about the design that TSS is promoting with the "dead end" (no sure if that is the right term) on the pipe? I think they claim it creates proper backpressure
Brandon from TSS told me a the sled show that they are getting 5-7hp increase without a tuner.

is this true?

 

[oler1234]

I am about to find out this year as I just installed one

 

[slededjr]

Jaws also has a pipe for etec this year as well. 10 HP increase. Gains through entire power band, not just part of it. Should have the first one in two weeks or so.

 

[Cat401]

Jaws also has a pipe for etec this year as well. 10 HP increase. Gains through entire power band, not just part of it. Should have the first one in two weeks or so.

I think you need a controller for this setup....

The TSS pipe is claiming around 7 hp.....because of the unique design...without any need for a controller...curious to hear if its true or not