Only Montreal ??? Maybe not !

[Bogger]

Going to start reading now. I appreciate the link.

I'll openly say, that I truly believe you can find something on the internet that supports any argument you want. I do not know everything for sure. My belief in rising CO2 levels, and climate change is based on mostly anecdotal evidence/personal experiences over a relatively short lifespan. I guess I'm just tired of being told to "research things" because what it boils down to is that you can research until you are blue in the face and two different reasonably intelligent people, can draw vastly different conclusions based on whichever sources they choose to trust. How do we decide who to trust in this day and age of the internet, when anyone can spin up a blog and start talking. *shrug*

I'll take a rich d-bag actor such as DiCaprio over say BP or Exxon, any fawking day of the week. In my mind, DiCaprio has nothing to gain by spouting off, he is already rich, and set for life while the BP's of the world have everything to lose.

Actually he does have lots to gain, as does Gore, Suzuki, Young and Travolta. They are all heavily invested in alternative energy. If coal/oil/gas are phased out and we are forced to get ALL of our energy from alternative/renewable sources the loser is the consumer and the winners are the investors. I'm not saying that alternative energies are bad, they are part of the solution but the technologies are not there yet..... I have a huge issue with the amount of batteries that are required to store solar power, the raw materials and manufacturing processes required to produce the large windmills (by some accounts leaving a larger carbon footprint than burning coal oldschool). Clean coal is still dirty yes but it is 100x better than it was 20 years ago and so on and so forth.....

I agree anything can be proven/disproven using selected information and stats, the truth is difficult to find. I'm not 100% sure of anything but if I had to guess I'd bet that climate change is a natural process that we can not impact nor control. One volcano and/or forest fire can create more CO2 than a year of automobile use or 100 years of oil sand development (so I've read). If carbon credits are the way to go moving forward than Canada should be owed huge by the rest of the developed nations, due to our sparse population and vast forests we remove more CO2 than we produce.

 

[101110101101]

Actually he does have lots to gain, as does Gore, Suzuki, Young and Travolta. They are all heavily invested in alternative energy. If coal/oil/gas are phased out and we are forced to get ALL of our energy from alternative/renewable sources the loser is the consumer and the winners are the investors. I'm not saying that alternative energies are bad, they are part of the solution but the technologies are not there yet..... I have a huge issue with the amount of batteries that are required to store solar power, the raw materials and manufacturing processes required to produce the large windmills (by some accounts leaving a larger carbon footprint than burning coal oldschool). Clean coal is still dirty yes but it is 100x better than it was 20 years ago and so on and so forth.....

I agree anything can be proven/disproven using selected information and stats, the truth is difficult to find. I'm not 100% sure of anything but if I had to guess I'd bet that climate change is a natural process that we can not impact nor control. One volcano and/or forest fire can create more CO2 than a year of automobile use or 100 years of oil sand development (so I've read). If carbon credits are the way to go moving forward than Canada should be owed huge by the rest of the developed nations, due to our sparse population and vast forests we remove more CO2 than we produce.

You may be right. One part I do disagree with you on though, is that I can't imagine we are NOT having an impact... it might not be on climate... but we have whirlpools of plastic in the ocean. I can only eat one fish from the Athabasca per year due to mercury content that wasn't present when I was 10. China spews **** into the atmosphere in gross and negligent fashion. BPs oil spill in the gulf was disgusting and will leave evidence for decades to come. There are 7 billion.. BILLION of us in a closed system. I can't comprehend how we wouldn't have an impact..... I've seen it in my short life time. Can't anyone in their 40's or 50's remember their childhood...... wasn't it vastly different than todays environment? So maybe climate change is a farce...... but we're definitely having an impact... plastic isn't natural.

 

[Bogger]

I agree 100%..... I never claimed we do not impact our environment, I just don't buy into the global warming crap....climate change yes, water/air/land pollution you bettcha, kinda hard to deny that when the pictures out of Beijing/Hong Kong/LA clearly show hovering pollution. But if our existence ended tomorrow within 1000 years there would be nary a trace we were ever here. Humans are the only species that will adapt our environment to suite our needs as opposed to adapting to the environment around us.....eerily similar to cancer, systematically destroying everything we touch, but you aint going to stop progress no matter how hard you try and to think we will destroy the earth is arrogant, eventually when she has had enough she will do away with us.

Until then smoke um if ya got um.....

101101;2252688]You may be right. One part I do disagree with you on though, is that I can't imagine we are NOT having an impact... it might not be on climate... but we have whirlpools of plastic in the ocean. I can only eat one fish from the Athabasca per year due to mercury content that wasn't present when I was 10. China spews **** into the atmosphere in gross and negligent fashion. BPs oil spill in the gulf was disgusting and will leave evidence for decades to come. There are 7 billion.. BILLION of us in a closed system. I can't comprehend how we wouldn't have an impact..... I've seen it in my short life time. Can't anyone in their 40's or 50's remember their childhood...... wasn't it vastly different than todays environment? So maybe climate change is a farce...... but we're definitely having an impact... plastic isn't natural.

 

[101110101101]

I agree 100%..... I never claimed we do not impact our environment, I just don't buy into the global warming crap....climate change yes, water/air/land pollution you bettcha, kinda hard to deny that when the pictures out of Beijing/Hong Kong/LA clearly show hovering pollution. But if our existence ended tomorrow within 1000 years there would be nary a trace we were ever here. Humans are the only species that will adapt our environment to suite our needs as opposed to adapting to the environment around us.....eerily similar to cancer, systematically destroying everything we touch, but you aint going to stop progress no matter how hard you try and to think we will destroy the earth is arrogant, eventually when she has had enough she will do away with us.

Until then smoke um if ya got um.....

Agreed..... animals have returned and are thriving in or near Chernobyl.... it's only been what... 25-30-ish years?

 

[Lund]

I do not condone what the city of Victoria is doing, i find it absolutely wrong and disgusting.
Like i said, as per this thread pointing fingers.
BEFORE pointing finger's, its best to clean out your own house.
But then some don't see there own filth but are quick critics of others. It shows how simple minded people can be, yup everyone in my or your little world is right while the rest of this country is screwed in the head. LOL...sounds like a bunch of sorry azz kids arguing instead of doing the right thing.

BTW this thread is a joke, "i love the border line personal attacks" by certain members. i guess posting an legit opinion goes against the grain, so why bother. Some are great at BOASTING each others BS.

 

[Bigblack]

I do not condone what the city of Victoria is doing, i find it absolutely wrong and disgusting.
Like i said, as per this thread pointing fingers.
BEFORE pointing finger's, its best to clean out your own house.
But then some don't see there own filth but are quick critics of others. It shows how simple minded people can be, yup everyone in my or your little world is right while the rest of this country is screwed in the head. LOL...sounds like a bunch of sorry azz kids arguing instead of doing the right thing.

BTW this thread is a joke, "i love the border line personal attacks" by certain members. i guess posting an legit opinion goes against the grain, so why bother. Some are great at BOASTING each others BS.

What's your stance cool guy?

 

[teeroy]

I do not condone what the city of Victoria is doing, i find it absolutely wrong and disgusting.
Like i said, as per this thread pointing fingers.
BEFORE pointing finger's, its best to clean out your own house.
But then some don't see there own filth but are quick critics of others. It shows how simple minded people can be, yup everyone in my or your little world is right while the rest of this country is screwed in the head. LOL...sounds like a bunch of sorry azz kids arguing instead of doing the right thing.

BTW this thread is a joke, "i love the border line personal attacks" by certain members. i guess posting an legit opinion goes against the grain, so why bother. Some are great at BOASTING each others BS.

you're the only one crying here. you felt it necessary to take a shot at Alberta because your beloved province isn't so squeaky clean as you love it to be portrayed.

what does "don't see their own filth" mean? you don't think every albertan hasn't seen what the world considers our "filth"?

do we have to correct everything wrong in our province before we point out the hypocrisy of yours? how do you suggest we go about doing that?

you're right, we should never call out BC ever because Alberta is waaaaay worse. hell, you could kill babies and kittens but no one from AB better point it out or comment on it...

you realize how ridiculous that sounds, right? get over it...

 

[rzrgade]

It does get tiring of the never ending debate with a few from good old BC ......lol

It typically starts out with "subtle digs " at Alberta's wealth / or energy sector . To which most Albertans respond with the FACT that yes , but it helps out ALL of Canada . Followed Shortly by the BC gentleman's consistent replying , that they want facts , not opinions .....
So when the facts are presented just how Phenomenal the amount of extra $$$ Alberta has contributed over the past number of decades.....the same few mumble something about personnel attacks / it's only their opinions and blah blah blah...lol

This is the internet : So please keep this in mind.....
It may or may not be facts , it may or may not be true , you may or may not agree , there may or may not be a study that supports your point of view , you may or may not like what you read , .......etc etc .
Quite frankly ,based on the the above hypothesis, the views on these threads are not personnel attacks in any way , shape , or form .... More often than not they are sarcastic barbs of low quality humor ....

It really is more a matter of choice , with several options available ... But to speculate everyone who disagrees with you on the internet is specifically personnel attacking you is completely rubbish.....

 

[Cdnfireman]

I'm educated and basically always operate with a "believe but verify" attitude. I was taught to question everything, so it's second nature for me to do that.

So... that being said, please show me a single source that backs up what you just said about CO2 levels? Every source I can find (rather easily) pretty much shows the exact opposite...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=ghg+...in+the+atmosphere+chart&imgrc=tEK2chAN1PzHwM:

If that link works, pick any chart from any source. You say "do some research".... why not provide us the source of your research? Also... WHY TF would rich people in the first world want to transfer wealth to the third world. Enlighten me please.

*EDIT* To add more "research".

View attachment 195096

Taken from the source:

Read ad your own link and pick out the science. The fine print in the latest NASA/NOAA study states that they are only 37% confident in the accuracy of their findings. Only in the field of climate change study is this acceptable. If you were an engineer who designed something and put that stipulation in your design you'd be out of a job by the end of the day!!

It's not the rich people who want to transfer the wealth, just certain elitist left wingers that want to destroy what they consider the privileged western white folk, themselves excluded of course. They never offer up their own assets, just everyone else's.
Every cap and trade scheme tried in Europe has been mired in corruption and has failed. The carbon taxes that are coming soon to Canada will take money from the average worker, be spent on unsustainable green energy scams (like Ontarios') and benefits only the recipients of the bloated government contracts and incentives to build these white elephants. The emissions in Canada will drop, but not because of the wind farms and solar farms that pop up. The emissions will drop because jobs and industry will leave Canada in droves because the taxation increases, surcharges on energy use and penalties on energy intensive industries will make Canada a business unfriendly and uneconomical place to do business.
Dont kid yourself. Under our current governments in Ottawa and Alberta, manufacturers in Ontario will close up shop and head south. Investors in oil will shift focus out of western Canada and go elsewhere until the NDP is voted out.
Western Canada will survive and prosper again because the world will always need the resources that lie under our feet. Ontario and Quebec will turn into deserted industrial wastelands because once the manufacturers leave and set up shop in the southern states or Mexico, they will never return. They will never be able to justify setting up shop here again because of the cost. What has happened in Detroit, Buffalo Cleveland etc will happen to southern Ontario.
Trudeau and Notley don't understand that business is what drives the economy and pays the taxes and bills. When those two idiots decide to try and socially engineer society based on junk science and feel good BS that is business unfriendly, the economy tanks and business and capital go elsewhere.
Common sense pollution control is necessary. Gutting the economy for bragging rights at climate conferences and celebrity parties so Justin can look good in his selfies is idiotic.

 

[Bogger]

I don't believe that central Canada will turn into a "wasteland" it is true that industries and businesses that leave will likely not come back but others will start up and begin, unfortunately they will likely not be as stable and rooted as the ones that are leaving.

I do however agree with everything else, when Solar/wind etc. become economically feasible and reliable they will systematically capture market share without the influence of government and policy makers. I believe we should evolve and improve but it needs to be a manageable process dictated by feasibility as opposed to a mandated requirement, because so long as other cities/provinces/countries do not have the same restrictions it places us at a competitive disadvantage. Alberta is losing investment to Saskatchewan because of government policy, Canada is losing investment and exporting opportunities because of government policy....Setting the bar so high on our own policies that it puts our businesses at a competitive disadvantage, while other countries (Germany/China/USA) continue to build coal fired power generation plants to provide economical power to their citizens and businesses, is economical genocide.

 

[Bogger]

Going to start reading now. I appreciate the link.

I'll openly say, that I truly believe you can find something on the internet that supports any argument you want. I do not know everything for sure. My belief in rising CO2 levels, and climate change is based on mostly anecdotal evidence/personal experiences over a relatively short lifespan. I guess I'm just tired of being told to "research things" because what it boils down to is that you can research until you are blue in the face and two different reasonably intelligent people, can draw vastly different conclusions based on whichever sources they choose to trust. How do we decide who to trust in this day and age of the internet, when anyone can spin up a blog and start talking. *shrug*

I'll take a rich d-bag actor such as DiCaprio over say BP or Exxon, any fawking day of the week. In my mind, DiCaprio has nothing to gain by spouting off, he is already rich, and set for life while the BP's of the world have everything to lose.

Okay... so I've only read the 10 points so far, and here is what I think when reading each point:

1. agree - weather is not climate
2. agree - natural variations in weather and climate can be huge. I disagree that it is warming but "not much and not lately".... I've lived in AB for 40+ years.. never seen a winter without snow.
3. Climate models.... I can't speak intelligently whether they are accurate or not, but with technology and simulations and super-computers these days, I'd have to think the modelling is as good as it has ever been.
4. Energy from the sun.... possibly... I had never heard that before, but to me it would seem that would be more like solar flares, and relatively short lived (guessing there)
5. It's just a statement... who is this person and how does he know CO2 has very little to do with it? That's almost akin to stating "god exists, prove he doesn't"... knowing full-well it's impossible to prove a negative.
6. I disagree... **** comes out my ass, I'd still call it pollution. If it ISN'T a poisonous gas.. try breathing nothing but C02 for 5 minutes..... then we'll talk.
(The Effects of Too Much Carbon Dioxide in the Blood |) So while not technically a "poison"... it will still kill you.
- The website eMedMag.com notes that while most simple asphyxiants do not have any inherent toxicity of their own, cases of CO2 poisoning have been linked to central nervous system damage and permanent deterioration of respiratory functions. Because of these findings, CO2 is considered not just a simple asphyxiant, but a gas with acute systemic effects as well.
7. Define "not much" I hate statements like this.... it's subjective. What is not much? 500 meters wouldn't matter if you lived 600 meters above sea level... whereas 5 meters would be catastrophic if living at 2 meters below sea level.....
8. Don't know about polar bear levels, but I do know for sure, he did not provide any source/link/corroborating evidence to support the statement. He could be 100% accurate and I'd still have to question the statement without more info/data
9. Another silly statement IMO..... no one has disproven the existence of God yet either... therefore he must exist? Bollocks!
10. Yup.... there is trickery.... agree....... but who is doing it? O&G and the deniers or the Climate Change fanatics?

Anyway I'll keep reading... but this does appear to be one of those "blogs" that someone just spun up.... I find it hard to take seriously without knowing him (and having seen none of his research)... I may still get to his "proof" below.

(Thanks BoggeR)

The last thing I'll add before I head home.. is https://medium.com/@pullnews David Siegel himself.... not a scientist.... he's a business man.... (Entrepreneur, investor, start-up coach, consultant) so why are we believing his word versus those doing the actual studies? *curious*... What is his angle? Drive people to his blog? Have you looked at his other blog entries... he is all over the map.... an expert at everything I suppose.

I didn't see your edit until now... and I would have to go back and re-look at it all but again every point is based on selected facts, believable myths and personal bias (not directed at you I mean everyone). I guess my bias lies in the fact that out of all the offenders (industrialized nations) we are a mere raindrop in an ocean yet we (Canada/Alberta/Fort McMurray) are chastised as if we can solve the problem by shutting down our industry/livelihoods while allowing the rest of the world to carry on their merry way.

With regards to the bigger picture of global warming maybe I am bias but I've quickly peeked into the backgrounds of many of the outspoken "global warming spokespeople" and it's not difficult to find the economic motivators. Unfortunately no matter what your stance the spokespeople suck because as they preach against the use of fossil fuels none of them are willing to change anything about their own lifestyle and most people will not.....

Are you willing to sell your sleds/ATV's/Trucks/boats and forego clean hot water showers, dishwashers, clean laundry and perks like hot tubs/air conditioning/phones/computers while everyone else around you carries on status quo????? The only way we as a species/society will change is if we are forced to, and I don't mean forced to as in "we have to because we are killing the environment" I mean forced to as in "the world as we know it has changed and the only thing that matters now is survival and the basic necessities of life" Mad Max and The day after Tomorrow type chit. until then we will wake up have a hot shower, warm up our truck, go for a sled ride, burn some fuel, burn some wood, break some parts just to order on Monday, hang out at a nice hotel, sit in the hot tub, another hot shower, nice big dinner cooked with electricity and natural gas, and bed down in a nice warm room serviced by a forced air LNG or electric furnace all while making sure the trailer is plugged in so our sleds and gear are warm in the morning to do it all over again....

 

[eclipse1966]

personally I believe we are going thru a climate change which is pretty hard to deny based on the statistical info out there. But, I believe it is mainly caused by the natural cycle of mother earth and only partially blamed on us humans. Our politicians have simply figured out how to use scare tactics to justify getting more money out of our pockets. I personally think a much bigger issue we have is the garbage such as plastics being thrown into our oceans and water ways. Pretty sad IMO.

 

[101110101101]

I didn't see your edit until now... and I would have to go back and re-look at it all but again every point is based on selected facts, believable myths and personal bias (not directed at you I mean everyone). I guess my bias lies in the fact that out of all the offenders (industrialized nations) we are a mere raindrop in an ocean yet we (Canada/Alberta/Fort McMurray) are chastised as if we can solve the problem by shutting down our industry/livelihoods while allowing the rest of the world to carry on their merry way.

With regards to the bigger picture of global warming maybe I am bias but I've quickly peeked into the backgrounds of many of the outspoken "global warming spokespeople" and it's not difficult to find the economic motivators. Unfortunately no matter what your stance the spokespeople suck because as they preach against the use of fossil fuels none of them are willing to change anything about their own lifestyle and most people will not.....

Are you willing to sell your sleds/ATV's/Trucks/boats and forego clean hot water showers, dishwashers, clean laundry and perks like hot tubs/air conditioning/phones/computers while everyone else around you carries on status quo????? The only way we as a species/society will change is if we are forced to, and I don't mean forced to as in "we have to because we are killing the environment" I mean forced to as in "the world as we know it has changed and the only thing that matters now is survival and the basic necessities of life" Mad Max and The day after Tomorrow type chit. until then we will wake up have a hot shower, warm up our truck, go for a sled ride, burn some fuel, burn some wood, break some parts just to order on Monday, hang out at a nice hotel, sit in the hot tub, another hot shower, nice big dinner cooked with electricity and natural gas, and bed down in a nice warm room serviced by a forced air LNG or electric furnace all while making sure the trailer is plugged in so our sleds and gear are warm in the morning to do it all over again....

Sorry... the weekend interrupted

It's a tough question to answer.... (would I be willing to give up my sleds etc....) The simple answer for me is that I believe individuals are tiny contributors relative to giant industries. I've often said in this forum and just in life in general that I have too much.. I make a modest living, and could still do with FAR less. Am I willing to give up the things I've earned for the betterment of everyone..... yes. Am I willing to do the same, knowing it will have no affect while Syncrude <insert any company> spews out more in a day than I do in 10 years... No... there wouldn't be much point.

I tend to lump it all together (As you can probably tell). Global warming, climate change, pollution, and the whirlpools of plastic in the ocean that we indirectly ingest....... all different problems yet all would be helped/mitigated with the same solution... stop pollution the hell out of everything and raping the world for it's resources. 7 billion .... is 6 billion too many IMO. Earth can't sustain us all "in balance". If there were only 1 million people on the planet (made up number). We'd all have 2000 acres, plenty of natural resources, jobs, food, space, etc etc.... I chose not to have kids very young, for some of those exact reasons. (I'll stop blabbing now lol... )

Interesting conversation... glad it can be relatively civil.....