obama and keystone- to my american buddies

[eclipse1966]

Of course the fact that the decision had nothing to do with the pipeline completely escapes most people here it seems. The Republicans (who seem to be willing to completely destroy their country so make the President look bad) had attached the keystone approval to a large bill that had many things that were unacceptable to the Dems. They made it a "pass it all or pass none of it" bill they passed none of it. But it's all Obamas fault......

and based on most posts here the rep come out smelling like roses as most people dont take a moment to fully understand what was at stake. It wasnt only the Keystone issue involved. Either way Obama still had a chance to approve it if he wanted prior to this recent convoluted bill proposal. Funny thing is I dont think rep would risk losing an election over it either and would have probably done the same. Staying in power is the name of the game and any party will do what ever it takes to stay in power. That is why governments are in trouble because they lack the will to make a difference when they get elected into office.

 

[APEX 1]

Not sure how this all works but why not build refineries here and sell the finished product, would this not ensure more permenent jobs.

 

[lexy]

read this in the local paper today about kinder morgan...


Clearwater Times - Kinder Morgan investigates twinning Trans Mountain pipeline

 

[canuck5]

This is well said I believe one way or another its going thru. Companies can buy and retrofit Refineries in the states for say 500 million and to build a new upgrader up here the cost is endless LLK upgrader is probably tapping the 10 billion dollar mark. Im just saying as a country we should be hedging our bets and attempting to build on our own soil as its jobs for the future and good ones.

People arguing over pipelines through bc, should probably realize that there are already pipelines (albeit small ones) owned by small companies that run where they need to go. In other words the right of ways are there, and when a big company like an enbridge or a trans canada, or a gibsons, ect... decide they want to build it is just a matter of buying up the company that owns the right of ways, and then putting the bigger pipe in the ground.

Bell communications did this to Trans Canada in the early 90's, they needed to run a fiber optic line, and Trans Canada already had a right of way where they wanted to go. It was cheaper to buy up a controlling stake in Trans Canada then it was to go about getting new approvals. After the line was in they slowly sold off the shares.

If Trans Canada wasn't so arrogant they would have already had this pipe in the ground. Between buying the pipe from India, and insisting on calling themselves Trans Canada even in the states, they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Had they bought the pipe from the starving steel mills in the Eastern US (Pittsburgh area and such) and started a shell company out of Texas with a name like "American Pipelines" and then called it the "Vetran's war memorial pipe line" and donated some $$$ to some vetran's charities. This thing would already be in the ground.

I'm glad to see a couple people on here have a grasp at how much man power and money it would cost to put in refineries and upgraders in Alberta to keep the raw product and sell the finished. Yes it could be done over the next 20 years or so, but we produce so much oil there is no way we could cover all of that refining by "building" some more refineries, to illustrate: I was on TCPL site last week, and they were running 600,000 barrels a day through the current keystone line. That is only one transport company. I'm not sure how many of the "oil" people on this board have been to hardisty alberta, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to what is in Oklahoma and Texas. Irving is Canada's biggest refinery by a LONG shot (about 300,000 barrels a day), it refine's almost much as all 3 of Edmonton's refineries do. It would take Irving and all of Alberta's refineries just to handle the current keystone transport (forget enbridge, or anyone else). Keystone XL will move more oil then ALL 20 of Canada's current operating refineries would be able to process. So we would need to build 20 more or 10 more with double the capacity just to scratch the surface. To build another Canaport (irving oil's refinery) would cost ~10 billion, which is more then the cost for Keystone XL. That only covers 300,000 barrel's a day.

There is a reason, no big companies in the Alberta tar sands, bother to fight the "dirty oil" wrap. Nobody cares, all of the oil they can produce gets bought anyway.

As with any political move, there is always fear mongering to be had, and money to be made from it.

Canada stepping out of OPEC is a whole other can of worms, for another time.

One way or another XL will become a reality. It will either be post election, or with Trans Canada building it with a starting point in Montana, and then connecting the "two" pipelines together. Buying some Trans Canada stock after the "news" was probably a good idea.

 

[Beels]

Not sure how this all works but why not build refineries here and sell the finished product, would this not ensure more permenent jobs.

Go back and read the linked post (which was only one page ago).
https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/14/obama-keystone-my-american-buddies-59975-6.html#post1342687

 

[Himark]

who else here LOVES Keystone Light beer? damn good ch!t...and cheap...does it get any better?!

 

[ramnut84]

Im from Colorado and am super mad at Obama for not approving the pipe line!!!!!!!!!

 

[zeebs]

I will elaborate on this topic in a bit but for now I have one question to get you guys thinking.

Of course the fact that the decision had nothing to do with the pipeline completely escapes most people here it seems. The Republicans (who seem to be willing to completely destroy their country so make the President look bad) had attached the keystone approval to a large bill that had many things that were unacceptable to the Dems. They made it a "pass it all or pass none of it" bill they passed none of it. But it's all Obamas fault......

What the fawk has that worthless sucker done for this country besides boost ammunition sales?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Dragin]

who else here LOVES Keystone Light beer? damn good ch!t...and cheap...does it get any better?!

And smooth... Hold my stones.

 

[zeebs]

This whole government staff needs to be fired and start over from scratch. Everything is so krupt nothing is being done for the good of the country or its citizens. Its all being done in the name of getting votes in the next election or depending how much money some SOB can pass under the table. God damn government in this country will worry about pennies in front of them while the dollar bills are flying behind them. How many years have you heard about it, "Gotta be more energy independent, gotta be more self sufficient, gotta, gotta, gotta" VERY few have followed that statment. Then when a bill like this comes up "Oh we cant pass that!" well WTH not?!?!?! You can say what you want about President Bush but in my position being a farmer if it wasnt for him we wouldnt have chit for an economy. At least in my area the farm economy is holding up the rest of the economy (dont know how it is in other rural areas). Bush mandated the ethanol blend to reduce the need of forigen oil (I'm not gonna start that argument).

As I look at the current situation I thought about this yesterday. I dont know how many of you are up to date on the current farm situation, but I will inform you a little bit of whats going on.
Its been coming down the last 3, 4, to possibly 5 years. The government has been needing national record crops to be able to supply the demand for corn and beans. The first 2 years they probably did. But recently the crops have not been there nationally. 3 years ago when the crops were so wet and a large portion of them never got harvested in the fall there were barges sitting in the gulf of mexcio full of wet corn that rotted. As well as many elevator piles that went bad, and USDA reported farmers harvesting in the spring and had better yields than in the fall (and this is after it stood in the snow and the wind blew it over). 2 years ago the crops were fair but not record. As a matter of fact down through Iowa, Nebraska, and Illionis there were soybean fields that were completly lost due to SDS, a disease in soybeans that is non-curable. Last year they had the drought down south and the flood up north and yields were down again. Its a fact places that were affected by the flooding in Missiouri, Iowa, South Dakota, North Dakota will not be growing crops for years due to the destruction of the land (erossion, silting, and forigen material) Ok, South America has been able to pull a rabbit out of the hat the last couple years aupposedly and make up for what the US didnt produce. Well at this time they are getting close to harvesting their crops and they have not had much rain. I have heard reports of 30-40% crop is lost (NOT USDA reports).

At this time your pry wondering, "What the hell does this have to do with Obama/Oil/Government/Jobs/Economy, Etc.

Well the government has been telling everybody (Forgien Countries/End-Users) all along there is enough grain, there is enough and demand HASNT dropped one bit! Let me tell you folks this is gonna be the shortest crop in the last 6-10 years. The government is doing no good coming out with these false reports of production. One day the rubber will meet the road and there wont be any more to go around. Once there is not enough to go around commidity prices are going to record highs, thus cutting demand, consumption, exports all overnight. There will be feedlots going broke, hog feeders operating in the severe red ink, ethanol plants shut down. People without jobs, structures and facilities sitting empty/idle. If the government would let the chips fall where they may it would take the highs and lows out and maybe average at something reasonable/profitable. Instead they have to be medleing in business where they have none and make this country suffer on account of it.

 

[zeebs]

Another thing is the government regulation. Where the hell do these guys get the expertise/information to make these stupid regulations. I have talked with MANY businessmen that have been around for 7 years or more and they all say the same thing. "If I was to start this business over today with what I had when I did it the first time I couldn't make it work because of all the rules and regulation and hoops that one has to jump through now." Regulation will kill this country, excess regulation prohibits any new businessman from starting up unless he either cheats the government or pays somebody off.

Here are some examples of excess regulation

-We have 2 Ethanol plants to the east of us both in the same county. The smaller one of the two had its permits in place before the larger one. The larger one is only allowed to dump 100 semis a day due to the "dust emissions" (Any number of trucks over 100 and its a $5,000 fine per load over) Thats right they claim between the two Ethanol plants there is too much dust being put into the atmosphere if the large one was to dump as many trucks and they can handle.

-Now with these Tier 4 engines in this farm equiment, just the Tier 4 engine in a new combine is suppose to add $30,000 to the price of the machine. How can it actually be fiesable to add that much more cost to a machine just to get slightly better emissions?!?!?

-There was a guy that worked construction in California and they had dust regulations on the site out there. OSHA would bring out these test sheets to make sure there wasnt too much dust blowing around the contruction site. If there was it was an automatic, no questions asked $10,000 fine. So they would make the construction company flood the site with water to control their dust. How smart is it to use water that can get in short supply in that area as dust control, dont you think there would be a better need for it somewhere else?!?!?!?

The list goes on and on, how do they expect this country to grow/recover when they keep everybody pinned down and telling them what, when, where, and how to do stuff?!?!? once again medleing in bussiness where they have none!

 

[eclipse1966]

Good post zeebs and I agree with you for most of it. But I dont think the problem can be solely blamed on Obama either as the previous government was full of stupid decisions that cost your country billions as well. Personally, your whole political scene needs a huge shake up from top to bottom. I have been in the agri trade for 22 years now with the a large portion of that buying and selling US crops to Asia. I have seen/experienced some strange things that make my head shake regardless who is in power. On a side note, we could use a shake up here too. So much waste of tax payers money and no one is accountable. Just keep spending.

 

[zeebs]

I seem to have a hard time putting into words my thoughts on the whole government situation but maybe that because words cant describe the stupidity going on in government in this country. It doesnt seem to matter weather its Ag, Commerical, Industrial or whatever, goverment as a whole has found a way to destroy it all!

 

[eclipse1966]

I seem to have a hard time putting into words my thoughts on the whole government situation but maybe that because words cant describe the stupidity going on in government in this country. It doesnt seem to matter weather its Ag, Commerical, Industrial or whatever, goverment as a whole has found a way to destroy it all!

I hear you on that hence the reason we are lost for words. No logic once so ever.

 

[zeebs]

	Government	https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/#https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/#
	A money-driven conspiracy of liars, cheaters, and conartists claiming to control all morality. They assume that they know everything, including the difference between right and wrong, but do not realize how hypocritical they truly are. They will create their own destruction, while their victoms sit and watch them fall.

 

[storch]

Keystone rejection....I will quote my favorite American Forest Gump, "stupid is as stupid does".

 

[cscherer]

zeebs....great stuff...spread the word...get the chump outta there.

Simply vote.....no.

 

[WopOnTour]

The evidence continues to build that US dollars are funding the battle against energy development in Canada
CTV News | The day the oil-sands battle went global

I really dont care if the bands in Northern BC are asking for fair compensation.Just give it to them.
But dont let the USA control our natural resources!

For more information visit

WOT

 

[frock]

I agree with you WOP about the states trying to control our resources, stay the hell out of our resources. The point I was making is that, according to the article you linked to, the States haven't targeted nearly enough of the first nations in BC to have any effect on the outcome.