obama and keystone- to my american buddies

[Beels]

Do you think you would fight it to if there was any chance that the ocean life and fish you and your ancestors have lived on for thousands of years could be wiped out with one supertanker accident or one major pipeline spill. Oh and by the way the "Indians" are not the only ones trying to ensure that this pipeline for Alberta crude doesn't completely f@ck up the west coast fishery, there are a lot more people potentially affected than the natives.

That's fine. Just don't go running to the feds looking for a big transfer payment when you're a have-not province again.

Just sayin'

 

[Redlineryan]

SOOOOOOOOOOO mad over that decision was a supporter of Obama before but not now, wussed out of a big decsision and put the blame on republicans for setting a deadline when hes just trying to pawn of the blame since its an election year, and not to mention how it could help pull their economy out of the toilet and help boost ours. we should be trying to cut them off completely from our fosil fuels oil and power and just focus on shipping elsewhere.

For those of us who work in the industry that decision definitely just took alot of money from our future pockets...

 

[eclipse1966]

That's fine. Just don't go running to the feds looking for a big transfer payment when you're a have-not province again.

Just sayin'

hahaha. come on, that is a silly comment. Just because a pipe line isnt built doesnt mean BC is a have not province. What did Canada do before the tar sands??? I remember working in Calgary in mid '80 and was laid off as the oil industry was dead and it wasnt for a few years later until things got better again. And I was not even working in the oil industry. Oil money is good but it isnt the end of the world. I am for the pipe line but is must be studied to death before it gets a green light imo. We dont need this thing rushed to please big oil. it must be done right.

 

[TheMuffinMan]

That's fine. Just don't go running to the feds looking for a big transfer payment when you're a have-not province again.Just sayin'

China needs Alberta oil true enough. They also need lumber, coal and natural gas. Last I checked BC had a hell of a lot more of those things than Alberta does...I don't think we'll be on the have-not list anytime soon bud.

 

[kootenaycat]

Then that's 5 years worth of jobs that stays here too along with the long term jobs of the refineries. And if the jobs are there, the workers will come. It's been happening for the last 10 -15 years in Alberta, people coming from all over Canada to make big bucks.

 

[knee deep in it]

yes, an accident can happen but it is extremely rare. The oil tankers have been circling the earth for the last 50 years with very few problems. Safety keeps getting better and better.

The natives fighting the pipeline/terminal are hugely financed by the USA who are scared they are losing their safe oil supply. This argument is not about safety or the environment, it is about protecting USA interests.

 

[bobsledder]

yes, an accident can happen but it is extremely rare. The oil tankers have been circling the earth for the last 50 years with very few problems. Safety keeps getting better and better.

The natives fighting the pipeline/terminal are hugely financed by the USA who are scared they are losing their safe oil supply. This argument is not about safety or the environment, it is about protecting USA interests.

A lot of Americans are upset by this. Been working in Houston the last few weeks. People here are saying it is political BS so Oboma can get reelected and once he does it will be approved.

 

[trench]

hahaha. come on, that is a silly comment. Just because a pipe line isnt built doesnt mean BC is a have not province. What did Canada do before the tar sands??? I remember working in Calgary in mid '80 and was laid off as the oil industry was dead and it wasnt for a few years later until things got better again. And I was not even working in the oil industry. Oil money is good but it isnt the end of the world. I am for the pipe line but is must be studied to death before it gets a green light imo. We dont need this thing rushed to please big oil. it must be done right.

And what happened to kill the oil industry on the mid 80's? Remember the NEP, the whole world economy revolves around oil, we need to get this right!!! Maybe we should just build a pipe line to Quebec, they will probably be the ones getting the most benefit from Alberta oil anyways.

 

[eclipse1966]

And what happened to kill the oil industry on the mid 80's? Remember the NEP, the whole world economy revolves around oil, we need to get this right!!! Maybe we should just build a pipe line to Quebec, they will probably be the ones getting the most benefit from Alberta oil anyways.

you missed my point. What I am saying is just because the pipe line isnt built doesn't mean BC becomes a have not province. I maybe wrong but I think Alberta may have more to lose than BC as our economy is more diversified between mining, lumber and gas plus Asia/Pacific influence. But I agree about the NEP.

 

[dvst8r]

People arguing over pipelines through bc, should probably realize that there are already pipelines (albeit small ones) owned by small companies that run where they need to go. In other words the right of ways are there, and when a big company like an enbridge or a trans canada, or a gibsons, ect... decide they want to build it is just a matter of buying up the company that owns the right of ways, and then putting the bigger pipe in the ground.

Bell communications did this to Trans Canada in the early 90's, they needed to run a fiber optic line, and Trans Canada already had a right of way where they wanted to go. It was cheaper to buy up a controlling stake in Trans Canada then it was to go about getting new approvals. After the line was in they slowly sold off the shares.

If Trans Canada wasn't so arrogant they would have already had this pipe in the ground. Between buying the pipe from India, and insisting on calling themselves Trans Canada even in the states, they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Had they bought the pipe from the starving steel mills in the Eastern US (Pittsburgh area and such) and started a shell company out of Texas with a name like "American Pipelines" and then called it the "Vetran's war memorial pipe line" and donated some $$$ to some vetran's charities. This thing would already be in the ground.

I'm glad to see a couple people on here have a grasp at how much man power and money it would cost to put in refineries and upgraders in Alberta to keep the raw product and sell the finished. Yes it could be done over the next 20 years or so, but we produce so much oil there is no way we could cover all of that refining by "building" some more refineries, to illustrate: I was on TCPL site last week, and they were running 600,000 barrels a day through the current keystone line. That is only one transport company. I'm not sure how many of the "oil" people on this board have been to hardisty alberta, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to what is in Oklahoma and Texas. Irving is Canada's biggest refinery by a LONG shot (about 300,000 barrels a day), it refine's almost much as all 3 of Edmonton's refineries do. It would take Irving and all of Alberta's refineries just to handle the current keystone transport (forget enbridge, or anyone else). Keystone XL will move more oil then ALL 20 of Canada's current operating refineries would be able to process. So we would need to build 20 more or 10 more with double the capacity just to scratch the surface. To build another Canaport (irving oil's refinery) would cost ~10 billion, which is more then the cost for Keystone XL. That only covers 300,000 barrel's a day.

There is a reason, no big companies in the Alberta tar sands, bother to fight the "dirty oil" wrap. Nobody cares, all of the oil they can produce gets bought anyway.

As with any political move, there is always fear mongering to be had, and money to be made from it.

Canada stepping out of OPEC is a whole other can of worms, for another time.

One way or another XL will become a reality. It will either be post election, or with Trans Canada building it with a starting point in Montana, and then connecting the "two" pipelines together. Buying some Trans Canada stock after the "news" was probably a good idea.

 

[trench]

you missed my point. What I am saying is just because the pipe line isnt built doesn't mean BC becomes a have not province. I maybe wrong but I think Alberta may have more to lose than BC as our economy is more diversified between mining, lumber and gas plus Asia/Pacific influence. But I agree about the NEP.

Nope, didn't miss your point at all, maybe BC is more diversified than Alberta. The point I was trying to make was that the whole country (mostly Quebec) depends on Alberta's oil industry. When the NEP was introduced the whole country became have not, so BC also has a big stake on this.

 

[pfi572]

Maybe this would help!!

I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes & the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, in my case, I am required to pass a random urine test (with which I have no problem). What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. So, here is my question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them? Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their BUTT ----doing drugs while I work. Can you imagine how much money each province would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check? I guess we could call the program "URINE OR YOU'RE OUT"! Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all will pass it along, though. Something has to change in this country - AND SOON!

AS i said in the other post.............Sure it`s a great idea to build it here !!! BUT ,we are having trouble getting a west coast pipe line agreed too ,because of hippies/native bands/tree huggers and movie stars. So how in the hell would we ever get a refinery and eventual pipeline built to process the stuff !!!!!!!!!!!
Until we cut off the money to the freeloaders,we won`t be able to build squat here,with out years of reviews................
Just pipeline it to China,Obama has no cash anyhow, just "change"...............lol

 

[DRD]

you missed my point. What I am saying is just because the pipe line isnt built doesn't mean BC becomes a have not province. I maybe wrong but I think Alberta may have more to lose than BC as our economy is more diversified between mining, lumber and gas plus Asia/Pacific influence. But I agree about the NEP.

Hmm, everything other than the A/P influence is a target for the enviro-natzi as well. Maybe not as diverse as you think.

 

[cscherer]

Thanks for all your comments, clearly we are all passionate about our alberta oil, for that matter Canadas oil. My point to this thread is to reach out to people who know people to influence a decision south of the border.

Sure Obama can say we will pass in the new year....yada yada, heard that before....

Do I wish to sell our oil to china...no....I would rather see it sold south of the border to create jobs and partnerships with my american collegues.

Fellow S and M rss......speak with your American friends and influence them on how clean canadian oilsands is....and the amount we have....

And above all....say no to Obama....

 

[WopOnTour]

Do you think you would fight it to if there was any chance that the ocean life and fish you and your ancestors have lived on for thousands of years could be wiped out with one supertanker accident or one major pipeline spill. Oh and by the way the "Indians" are not the only ones trying to ensure that this pipeline for Alberta crude doesn't completely f@ck up the west coast fishery, there are a lot more people potentially affected than the natives.

Oh please.
That's just a "smoke screen"
The first nations bands in BC are playing puppet to the people that are paying them
Here's some articles from the National Post that exposes many of the US based foundations and corporatons that are putting their noses into our CANADIAN business
Oil sands money trail
How U.S. charities fund Greens
Had they NOT accepted these big $$$ the native bands may have certainly deserved certain considerations and compensations, but only where the proposed pipeline passed through actual treaty lands.
But since they appear to be hell bent on selling out their country to the USA I think the feds and the provinces need to take charge of this situation.
Give them their voice and due diligence to appease concerns, but DO NOT allow them to distrupt the Gateway plans
China is NOT the only market that would/could take advantage of a west coast oil depot
JMO
WOT

 

[tantrumpipeline]

this is what I wanna see, open our resources to the world market and no more relying on an unstable american market

 

[jaredszakacs]

my family and i are absolutely outraged with obama's dumbazz call on this one! how stupid can you be when your economy is in the garbage to deny a project that is gonna employee close to 40,000 people and pay them well!!!! The states would rather spend there money and there citizens fighting for oil overseas than try and partner up with there neighbours. In my opinion we should cut them off of our water that they use our windpower that they use our lumber that they use and our oil/gas that they use our grade A alberta beef and our grains that they use and see how well they do! Canada should just step up already and cut the ties and go with china there willing to pay for our oil and gas why not sell it to them. Since the states economy has crashed and squatters are allowed to live in unoccupied homes we have been thinking of pulling our condo out of idaho just for the fact that the states are gonna keep getting worse in there economy. Still cant believe obama denied this once again the tree huggers win

 

[frock]

Oh please.
That's just a "smoke screen"
The first nations bands in BC are playing puppet to the people that are paying them
Here's some articles from the National Post that exposes many of the US based foundations and corporatons that are putting their noses into our CANADIAN business
Oil sands money trail
How U.S. charities fund Greens
Had they NOT accepted these big $$$ the native bands may have certainly deserved certain considerations and compensations, but only where the proposed pipeline passed through actual treaty lands.
But since they appear to be hell bent on selling out their country to the USA I think the feds and the provinces need to take charge of this situation.
Give them their voice and due diligence to appease concerns, but DO NOT allow them to distrupt the Gateway plans
China is NOT the only market that would/could take advantage of a west coast oil depot
JMO
WOT

The articles you linked to only mention a very small percentage of the actual number of bands that the pipeline will affect, namely the north coastal bands so I would disagree with your statement "The first nations bands in BC are playing puppet to the people that are paying them". That is simply not true and further to that I would bet that a very small percentage of that actual group will see any of this money, it's got something to do with power and greed within the bands.

You also stated "Give them their voice and due diligence to appease concerns, but DO NOT allow them to distrupt the Gateway plans". That is absurd as hell. These meetings being held across BC are so that ALL parties potentially affected (not just first nations) can voice their concerns. Perhaps there may be something raised at one of these meetings that nobody has thought of, many heads and ideas are better than one.

I am not against this pipeline outright, but what I am against is taking away the peoples right to be heard and a government that will not listen to the people. The people of BC have a right to make sure that this pipeline is as safe as it can possibly be and the few jobs created in BC after the construction is complete will not compensate for what will be lost if there is a major spill either at sea or on land.

I don't think we need 18 months of these meetings in order for everyone to have a say, I suspect there will be a couple thousand repeat concerns and what a waste of taxpayers money.

I also would like to see Alberta have another market for their oil, but what's wrong with ensuring we don't screw up the neighbors land and water while doing it. Just my 2 cents and................................ just sayin

 

[QuintinG]

We need to start looking out for our own country more. Less of this lets hurry and cut corners to make a buck today when we could make a hundred in a week. As for the comments of we won't be here in a hundred years wow think I know why the world is going to ch!t its because of people like you that have no forward thinking. LMFAO

My "we're not gonna be here in a hundred years comment" I meant "we" as in all of us having this discussion. You seem to have misinterpreted it and thought I meant the human race would be extinct. Don't misinterpret something and start hurling insults around.

 

[Dragin]

Of course the fact that the decision had nothing to do with the pipeline completely escapes most people here it seems. The Republicans (who seem to be willing to completely destroy their country so make the President look bad) had attached the keystone approval to a large bill that had many things that were unacceptable to the Dems. They made it a "pass it all or pass none of it" bill they passed none of it. But it's all Obamas fault......

That's a good point that's how environmentalists sneak in BS laws too. They just bury it in the middle of a phone book size bill and hope no one catches it.