New home build costs wow.

[250mark1]

I've heard weeping tile and PVC pipe are very hard to get also.

pvc and hdpe have been bad all year 40% increase since last December the hurricane that just hit new orleans is only making it worse
over 1 billion pounds of PVC resin production will be lost if the plants stay off line for one month as predicted. hearing another 25 % increase is coming
new orders for pvc pipe are now being quoted for delivery first quarter of 2022

 

[Legend14]

I wondered this myself, wouldn’t you also loose more SQ footage in the basement with a ICF as well?? I know, That’s a big advantage to a PWF basement.
With the new insulated exterior sheeting, I cannot remember what it was called at the moment. There are a lot of nice products on the market these days.

You actually gain inside sqf with ICF, code is 2x6 for basement wall now

 

[X-it]

In the cold weather icf helps with hydration, i have seen concrete freeze before, it seems to be ok but i never took the time to run the compressive tester on it or go back to see the results....haha.

 

[Caper11]

You actually gain inside sqf with ICF, code is 2x6 for basement wall now

Interesting, what was it before??? I was thinking of the thickness of the foam than depending on the builder if 2X4”s are used for the interior wall on the ICF.

 

[Legend14]

Used to be 2x4 on concrete….icf foam is your interior wall you slap drywall right on it….if it’s level enough

 

[snopro]

No worries guys. Justin says he will make it more affordable

 

[Chump]

I install hardwood flooring. Work in multi million $$$ homes all the time. Lots of builders doing icf. I can definitely tell some of them have there struggles keeping things straight. But for the most part they do alright! One of the builders does 2.5mil town houses. Sure makes things nice and quiet being attached.

 

[rknight111]

Here is an web article from Puddle on here , we could not post the HTML document so here is a copy of it.

WRLA Building Materials Update​

August 26, 2021

To our valued industry partners,
Supply chain challenges continue to impact the industry as demand continues to outpace supply. Raw material shortages continue to exist globally and as the demand continues to outpace supply, prices increase alongside. Raw materials such as resins, paper, semiconductors, steel, copper and aluminum supplies are low. Labour shortages continue and localized COVID outbreaks impact production capacity, which creates further pressure on an already stressed supply chain.
Containers are still an issue both from a supply and cost perspective. Costs continue to rise and have increased by more than 400%. Regular container pricing has jumped from $2,500 to $10,000. With the demand for product, premium service is basically the only option and are $18,000 - $31,000 USD per container depending on the container and region the shipment is coming from.
Labour shortages also continue to be experienced.
Resins
We learned that 154 of the 168 storm-damaged plants are operational. However, of those 154 operation plants, 130 remain under force majeure. This is making resin recovery slower than originally expected and is impacting virtually all categories. This will strain recovery into early winter. Particularly hard-hit and the slowest to recover will be latex-based paint products, aerosols and wall compounds.
Lumber Products
Commodity lumber products have become more readily available, and the prices have stabilized. However, the wildfire situation in BC can change that. We continue to follow the wildfire situation.
In terms of EWP, LVL supply continues to be a major limiting factor for new home construction. While joist supply is improving, beam supply continues to be limited.
Gypsum
Severe supply constraints continue and price increases need to be expected. A fire was experienced at CertainTeed’s Vancouver plant and production has resumed but a at a reduced level and their network of plants will assist until all the repairs in Vancouver are complete.
Insulation
Price increases expect to continue in all lines of insulation. Demand for mineral wool, blowing wool and batt continues to outstrip supply for the majority of 2021. Product is on allocation and long lead times are to be expected.
Steel Studs
Demand outstrips mill capacity, which has led to major shortages.
Roofing
The situation varies with suppliers, some supply is on allocation while other manufacturers are in a good position. Granules have become an issue for some manufacturers, which could increase lead times as supply is picked up.
Expect price increases on roofing products as well as accessories since the plastic components are impacted by resin availability and challenges.
Interior Doors
Demand for interior doors has been significant, essentially doubled in the past year. Price fluctuations continue as the supply of primed pine and MDF products continue to be a challenge for all manufactures.
The supply situation varies with suppliers. Pricing is expected to climb, and product allocations have been imposed by some manufactures while others have been able to increase their capacity to supply the market. Lead times and shipping will vary.
The demand for interior doors has almost doubled over the past year. As such, some manufactures have been investing heavily into capacity.
Mouldings
Pricing for mouldings expects to remain volatile and inventory allocations continue. Ocean freight, material shortages and increased costs from mills are driving the cost increases.
Windows & Exterior Doors
Expect some increased prices on some product lines. Resin availability has created some disruptions. Some suppliers have product more readily available than others. Steel doors have become an issue due to lack of material, however substitutions are readily available.
Vinyl Siding and Aluminum
Price increases and long lead times have been experienced as a result of raw material supplies, freight, pallet, labour costs and record high demands for product. Vinyl products are still on allocation and are impacting production. Back orders are still at record levels.
Steel Siding
Steel prices continue to escalate and lead times will vary based on supplier availability of product. Some colours are low or out of stock. Demand for product continues to be high.
Paints & Adhesives
There continues to be shortages and issues related to resin as well as spray cans, so products are on allocation and price increases have been experienced as result of shortages and freight costs.
Other products seeing shortages:
Concrete products such as retaining walls, paving stones and slabs have a limited offering and demand has been outstripping supply.
Copper shortages and increased prices continue and are expected to do so for the remainder of the year.
Two-component spray foam is on a shortage allocation basis with all manufactures due to raw materials. Expect longer lead times.
Continue to communicate your needs with your product suppliers to ensure that your needs are covered and expected timelines can be provided.
Fasteners continue to be in high demand and short supply due to supply chain issues. Price increases are expected to continue into the fall if the container issues continue.
With microprocessors and lithium batteries being impacted by supply challenges, power tool manufactures cannot fully supply the increased demand.
Please continue to communicate issues with us. We are working with government where we can keep them informed of challenges. If you have questions, comments or concerns please do reach out.

Best regards,

Liz Kovach
President, WRLA

 

[Cyle]

Heres the costs for the ICF Block and the Heat Sheet under slab insulation.

LOGIX 6" 90 CORNER 56 EA 25.39 $ 1422.04
LOGIX 6" STANDARD 141 EA 25.39 $ 3580.50
LOGIX 6" TAPERED TOP 55 EA 25.39 $ 1396.65
LOGIX END CAP PRO 6" SPECIAL 6 EA 2.22 EA $ 13.37
LOGIX WATERPROOFING COLPHENE 1400SQFT 7 EA 254.2439 EA $ 1779.71
6" FORMLOCK 8 pcs / bdle 3 EA 92.2642 EA $ 276.79
CABLE36 36" CABLE TIE 50/BAG 8 EA 25.6200 EA $ 204.96
MISC ITEMS
AD FOAM ADHESIVE SPECIAL ORDER 3 EA 16.1098 EA $ 48.33
AD FOAM GUN CLEANER SPECIAL $ 16.72
FILAMENT TAPE SPECIAL ORDER 5 EA 3.8415 EA $ 19.21
AD FOAM APPILCATOR SPECIAL ORDER 1 EA 40.7805 EA $ 40.78
UNDERSLAB HEAT SHEET 198 Sheets $ 2648.84

Total 11447.90 + GST.

The Heat Sheet is the expensive one, for regular TYPE II 4X8 2" STYROFOAM 60 EA 27.4500 EA $1647.00, so that would reduce the cost by $1000, the heat sheet has all the slots in it for the under slab heating piping and the rebar. By the time I lay it out with normal Styrofoam then staple it all down I wasted the time on labour and clips.

This is for a 1710 sq/ft bungalow with a 28 x 22 Garage. 4' walls. Its pricy but I was more worried how much it will be in another year. LOGIX puts the supply list together based of supplying them with plans.

Dang that's a lot, for $9000 if it was in edmonton you could get a 9' wall and footing cribbed, to do a 4' would be like $5000 here I bet. I am really surprised there is no one up there doing them, 4' walls are so easy.

 

[Cyle]

I install hardwood flooring. Work in multi million $$$ homes all the time. Lots of builders doing icf. I can definitely tell some of them have there struggles keeping things straight. But for the most part they do alright! One of the builders does 2.5mil town houses. Sure makes things nice and quiet being attached.

2.5 million townhouse? There is that many stupid people? I mean in a place like new york maybe, but in Calgary? For that kind of money it better be a penthouse or detached, anything else is absolutely retarded.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

Guessing the entire building is 2.5? Not each unit i would hope.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

I built my own house ICF right to the roof line as a complete rookie to it. We learned a few things.
- make your house plans to work with only full blocks, no cutting. This would have been EXTREMELY helpful to know in advance.
- prep is everything, good straight footings, with all the proper rebar Ties to hold the blocks etc.
- once blocks are up but before pouring, try to think of ANY reason you might need to penetrate the wall in the future.
drier vents, cable tv wires, a/c lines, extra water hose bibs, HVAC pipes for heaters or other vents. Put in extra. We used 4” Abs pipe to make collars thru the wall, if there not needed fill them with spray foam.
will you need access under the footings for sewer and water? Easier to pre dig that before there installed. ( also would have been nice to know before hand). Not easy to dig under 20 to 30” of footing.
- in all the window bucks, we made them with a gap that was covered with poly, so when we vibrate the concrete in, you can confirm the area under the bucks gets filled.
- Be ready with screws and Plywood patches to patch blow outs if you get too aggressive with pouring or vibrating.
- we hired an experienced hand with doing the pours just to have some experience with vibrating properly and such. Nice to have.
- as per point 1, as long as its built with full blocks, all the “studs” should be inline. Otherwise, pay particular attention how they are spaced. Once drywall is on, its a pain to find studs if there happ hazard all over to say the least.

I would Do ICF again. Its user friendly and more so for me, its DIY friendly.
also I like that it does several steps all in one step. In one shot you have a wall, its framed, sheeted, insulated and vapour barriered and house wrapped all in one step.
I put a ridiculous amount of rebar in mine and it was a bit of a nuisance actually as it made it hard to get the concrete in the forms, as such we had to thin it a fair bit to get it to pour properly. In the end Im fairly certain this house would survive a direct ICBM attack. Lol. Plus the cats love the huge window sills. i did 8” basement and 6” top story. So walls are like 14” thick downstairs and 12 up.

Overall not bad, very well insulated and very quiet.

 

[Rotax_Kid]

Not trying to knock anyone but it baffles me ICF is still around. It does not serve any purpose, I have never seen one basement with one that wasn't a mess. You have no idea how good that wall is underneath, the walls are never straight or level, and it's an absolute nightmare trying to get rough ins in it after. If you want the extra insulation, just put foam on the outside, or even inside after, it's cheaper, faster, and better overall.

I have ICF from top to bottom on our bungalow. Would do it again in a heartbeat. Walls are not perfect, but pretty good as we surveyed everything with a total station before pouring, heavily braced, poured slow and used a nice high early mix. Biggest advantage I have aside from energy savings is lack of wind noise on the prairies

 

[mathrulz]

Also a fan of ICF here. I have it in my place right through to the roofline as well. Several advantages already mentioned - insulating value and soundproof are huge, nothing else even comes close! As soon as you transition from ICF basement to stick built upper, or regular formed basement to stick built upper, etc… I don’t care how well you try to insulate around the floor joists and styrofoam sheet the outside or whatever, you’ll always end up with cold areas on the floor around the exterior walls. With full ICF we’ve had below -40 last few years with strong winds and the furtherest corners or exterior edges were still the same temp as the rest of the house. Going right up to the top with ICF is the only way, I’d do it again and again every time.

 

[Legend14]

You guys are bulletproof too for the apocalypse! Pretty cool.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

These are the first negative comments I've heard about ICF.

 

[Cyle]

As far as insulation, if you have stucco, you already likely have 2" outside, which is as good or better then the insulation for ICF outside. For the inside, you don't have the same R value as a 2x6 wall. I would bet with 2" foam outside and 2x6 wall, compared to ICF the sound would be the same, and you don't get anything from walls, it's all the windows. The other thing is you have the massive window sills to figure out how to look good. If it's your forever home the cost difference isn't as bad, but resale, tell someone it's ICF and 99% of people won't know or care what it is and won't pay more, it will even be a negative to some.

I am glad to hear you went 8" below ground though, i've heard far too many going with 6" which is just a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

As far as insulation, if you have stucco, you already likely have 2" outside, which is as good or better then the insulation for ICF outside. For the inside, you don't have the same R value as a 2x6 wall. I would bet with 2" foam outside and 2x6 wall, compared to ICF the sound would be the same, and you don't get anything from walls, it's all the windows. The other thing is you have the massive window sills to figure out how to look good. If it's your forever home the cost difference isn't as bad, but resale, tell someone it's ICF and 99% of people won't know or care what it is and won't pay more, it will even be a negative to some.

I am glad to hear you went 8" below ground though, i've heard far too many going with 6" which is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I would dis agree, as I live in a ICF house.
the insulation on the blocks was like 3.5” thick and thats on both sides, not to mention the concrete itself acts As a monolithic mass that deflects temps as well, and there is Zero gaps for drafts or anything, its solid 100% from the footings to the roof. My House is so quiet, my wife wants a drive way alarm because you can’t hear anything from outside, and she hates being surprised if someone comes over or something.
As Far as looks the windows are custom made for the thick walls and they look just fine. Ive lived in non ICF houses, there is a significant difference.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

Heres a pic of how the windows look.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

One thing that I remembered from when we were looking at using ICF. They had a picture of a stick framed and a ICF house from a FLIR thermal imager camera.
You could see every stud and gap in the insulation on the stick house, and the ICF was just like ambient color almost no heat loss thru the walls.