new back country regulations

[Modman]

so im guessing u dont know how tenures work ??? they have the right to use the land and so do we and im glad they gave the dark woods area to the animals they need room to play too ...

oh willy, I know more than you probably ever will. Typically, tenure does not grant exclusive use to the land, only to structures etc, however there are several types of tenures and they may cover access or a number of other variables. Also, riding in tenured areas presents a conflict with the tenure holder where they may like to see you pushed out, often times its better to wait until their season is over, or at least discuss with them so that you know which areas they are riding in and not jeopardize the safety of their clients. Places like Chatter Creek are a great example of this. They open the lodge at the end of the season to sledders and provide the tenured terrain to sledders to ride. Would be a shame to jeopardize that relationship without knowing all the facts about the area. so before you just run off and tell people that they can ride in tenured terrain, you better make sure you know what you are talking about specifically to each tenure.

Animal reserves are a whole other pot of boiling oil that I'm not going to get into because we could discuss just the mountain caribou alone til we are both old and grey. The fact they are transplanting them near Moyie should be very concerning to you.

 

[snopro]

Willy........if you get anything out of this thread then understand this. Somewhere, someplace in BC there is a geeky looking tree lover looking at a map of your personal riding area and saying.....Hmmmmmmmm I think we are going to draw a line here and your gonna be fighting the same thing that many others already are. Listen to Modman and Ferniesnow. They know what they are talking about and they are educated, unlike yourself.

 

[eclipse1966]

I read this in the Vernon Morning Star paper last week.

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/159265435.html

 

[moyiesledhead]

I read this in the Vernon Morning Star paper last week.

Vernon Morning Star - ATV access limited in Okanagan

I'm not sure I disagree with that legislation. Seems pretty liberal to me and covers all the areas we SHOULD be riding.

And.....Willy, you're a friggin' idiot!

 

[ferniesnow]

One thing I doo know in all this land issue crap is that if there is a pissing match between skiers and sledders, sledders will loose all the time.

 

[Modman]

thanks for the info ... but Willy has look into tenures thru front counter BC and knows his rights i wonder if front counter knows that BIG Red Cats cuts roads in the summer where ever they feel like without permits ??? everyone in Rossland rides at BRC cuz they all know !! The skiiers on the right side of the highway and sledders on the left , its been that way for years .

LOL Willy - did you forget who steered you towards Front Counter in the first place when your pals nearly got bombed by the helicopter? I'll let you re-read your PMs and then take a guess.....

 

[JaySimon]

Didn't they close Holy Smoke 2 or 3 years ago? How can you still be workin the counter?

All in all, there was this chocolate stuff that a, uh, friend, liked. If you could go ahead and get some of that, I'll come get it this weekend.

 

[kootenaycat]

Not siding with anyone here but Willy is right in that ski tenures for the most part aren't exclusive use of the land, only exclusive commercial use. BRC along with Great Northern and many others still try to tell sledders that they are on private land/cat trails - one of BRC's guides tried that BS on us 2 years ago and I got an apology out of Kieran later for his guides actions.

It's not the land tenures that are going to close us out of OUR crown land, it's the non-motorized recreationists and their big lawyers. For some reason we have elected officials who have the same mentality as skiers instead of sledders. That is what it simply comes down to.

 

[kootenaycat]

They open the lodge at the end of the season to sledders and provide the tenured terrain to sledders to ride..

I wish they would all do this, I would stay out of all tenured ski areas until closed if they offered accomodations on the hill for sledders too.

 

[kootenaycat]

I read this in the Vernon Morning Star paper last week.

Vernon Morning Star - ATV access limited in Okanagan

This has been an unwritten rule for years, common sense would say to stick to an existing trail and not tear up alpine grass. Meadow mtn has had this regulation for years. Fortunately they worded it correctly so won't be closing down any of our trails or old mining roads. This is taken from that article:

"The definition of road includes those with a paved surface, marked ski trails, those used for logging or mining, those used to access fences, power lines, wind generators or communication towers or “a trail on which there is no vegetation except on a strip that, if present, can be straddled by a four-wheel vehicle.”

 

[JaySimon]

This has been an unwritten rule for years, common sense would say to stick to an existing trail and not tear up alpine grass. Meadow mtn has had this regulation for years. Fortunately they worded it correctly so won't be closing down any of our trails or old mining roads. This is taken from that article:

"The definition of road includes those with a paved surface, marked ski trails, those used for logging or mining, those used to access fences, power lines, wind generators or communication towers or “a trail on which there is no vegetation except on a strip that, if present, can be straddled by a four-wheel vehicle.”

Doesn't seem that bad. Might be a slippery slope though.

 

[ferniesnow]

I wish they would all do this, I would stay out of all tenured ski areas until closed if they offered accomodations on the hill for sledders too.

Island Lake Lodge in Fernie has seen the light. They are taking a page out of the book at Chatter Creek. For years the Fernie Snowmobile Club (members only) had a two day ride at the end of their ski season on the private property of ILL. Two years ago it didn't fly due to liability and the BS paper work required. This past year, they sold sledding and accommodation for 2 days and 1 night (to FSA members) and it was very well received on both sides. The bar was open and a supper served along with breakfast for those partaking in the sleep-over. This will only get better and I can see it being similar to Chatter and the nice thing about ILL is that it is a world class CatSki operation and accommodations and meals are awesome.

 

[ferniesnow]

Not siding with anyone here but Willy is right in that ski tenures for the most part aren't exclusive use of the land, only exclusive commercial use. BRC along with Great Northern and many others still try to tell sledders that they are on private land/cat trails - one of BRC's guides tried that BS on us 2 years ago and I got an apology out of Kieran later for his guides actions.

It's not the land tenures that are going to close us out of OUR crown land, it's the non-motorized recreationists and their big lawyers. For some reason we have elected officials who have the same mentality as skiers instead of sledders. That is what it simply comes down to.

Not only the elected officials but also the bureaucrats; the government employees sitting in offices in Cranbrook, Nelson, Victoria, etc.. They also have the greenie mentality and IMHO that is where organizations like WildSight make their in-roads and like to get buddy-buddy with these, the policy makers.

And as I said before, we the motorized will loose out every time to the skiers or non-motorized users. Sad but true!

 

[fargineyesore]

And most people that work for the government are left leaning to begin with. My reasons for hating all levels of government keeps growing and growing.

 

[ferniesnow]

over half of Red Mountain Ski Resort is on crown land and they use sleds and quads everyday above 1400 and 1700 m does that mean they have to stop riding up there too ? oh ya groomers r off road vehicles too ???? hmmmm ?

Willy you are only reading what you want to hear! If that makes any sense?

This is a commercial operation and the same rules don't apply. Saying that, they would use the quads on existing trails in the non-snow months, snowmobiles are not included in the mix yet, and the groomers are operating in the winter and the rule wouldn't apply to them neither.

It would be like all the logging companies pick-up's in an active logging area on a otherwise closed area; they have special permits granted by the government. The motorized vehicles in the ski areas could or would be the same and operating with a permit.

 

[snopro]

405 posts of total futility. Your almost in Cyle territory Willy. Keep up the good work.

 

[ferniesnow]

i'll be riding the crown land behind my house for years and years prolly till im dead ? i wish ya luck on yer fight to keep areas open !

I'll ride it as long as I want also but that won't be as many years as you are expecting. You young dudes are gonna get a rude awakening and I'll be sledding all around the big white puffy things in the sky.

You had better wake up fast 'cause the greenies are way ahead in their planning and have their ducks in a row already. You and your Crown land are not out of their radar! Dark Woods is just a piece of their puzzle. When they start to expand the boundaries don't come crying.

 

[kootenaycat]

Now that I'm worked up over this closure issue, let's see what I found about the "green" recreationists. Seems that they aren't all that environmentally friendly after all. Any reason why we can't use this sort of thing to push the issue that they aren't any better then us? ATV's sticking to existing trails are a lot better then these guys "meadow stomping", and that's their own words. Or dropping straight lines between switchbacks and skidding along making water trenches which cause erosion. Guess the government must be using their blinders when making legislation.

This is a link to the photos I found. Chilcotins - Aug 2nd to 4th, 2008

 

[ferniesnow]

Right! We are all to blame. We all make a footprint.

I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and all things were discussed and presented with regards to the logging, mining, and back-country use with regards to future happenings in the East Kootenays. One gentleman kept bringing up the fact of quads spreading obnoxious weed seeds and demanded that they be washed and not allowed to go in certain places.

He was asked how he travelled the 35 kms to the meeting. He said quite proudly, "I came via my fuel efficient car with my two dogs in the back seat." Did you wash the car before you came? No. Did you wash the dogs? No.

You sir are also part of the problem. How many noxious weeds doo you think you transported after your hiking escapades?

Needless to say he was quiet for the rest of the evening.

 

[kootenaycat]

Yes they are all hypocrites. His "fuel efficient" car isn't nearly as efficient as my quad when it comes to off highway driving. But you'll never be able to tell him that even if you had scientific proof. I attempted to have a debate with a cyclist regarding ground pressure effects of ATV's vs mountain bikes. He kept telling me it was atv's that were making the railbeds too soft to travel on. Even after showing him pictures of the twin tracks of hard pack where the ATV tires pushed the ballast aside to make a smooth bike trail I was still wrong.