NDP Minority Govt in Alberta

[Keith Brown]

Could you shorten your posts I am at work I'll have to wait till get home to read this novel. Crap and I thought I was windy!!

Breath Keith.....breath....and stay away from Ric, he's an enabler.

I'm not some party loyalist, never have been. Not some "leaf licker" either. Wouldn't be on this site if I was! Just a realist. Each election, at every level of government, I do a ton of research (as you have seen) and make decisions based on truth and what party I think will be best for the whole of society. I enjoy the good debates, sharing of information and having opinions expressed freely. When it turns to anger it's not fun anymore.

I too have a small business based here in Alberta for the last 15 years (I 've lived here my entire life). My clients are in BC, AB, SK and MB. Since Ralph Klein and the policies brought in at that time I have watched numerous of my AB based clients lose good people and many ultimately closed up shop. Although the BC government acts more like Conservatives (as someone from BC here has also mentioned) due to public pressure the demand to diversify their economy is high. As such, I have seen my BC clients grow and thrive to the point that 70% of my business is now out of BC. Interestingly enough where I am currently seeing a resurrection is in MB. My industry used to thrive in MB. When the economy took a bath, it wasn't doing so well there. Mid 2014 and now into 2015 I am seeing activity once again, and it's from several companies. MB has been diversifying their economy, supporting technologies that have existed for some time, but were left unsupported. From my perspective the current ruling party in MB is indeed growing their economy and adding jobs. SK plugs along like it always has.

My revenue is currently less than $500,000 per year so under the NDP's I will be privy to a 5% tax break. WOW! If they proceed to diversify our economy, perhaps there will be growth in my industry, that means regaining jobs that were lost under the years of PC rule, that means value added products being made in AB, that means attracting investment back into AB once again. Should my company ever grow beyond revenues of $500,000, if I have managed well knowing my tax rate will jump, 2% more won't break me. Used to be a ton of investment within my industry here in AB, but when the PC's dropped any support for it to pursue oil/gas full time, it all packed up and left. So the balance will come back! Oil and gas is big factor for this province for sure, but wasn't always to the extent the PC's made it out to be (or their corporate supporters I should say). Will be good to see some investment back into the other parts of AB's economy that used to thrive. Balance is good for everyone, every industry, all Albertan's.

When it comes to Northern Gateway, I think we all need to take a hard look at the project. There are/will be multiple law suits to try and stop it. So 1 to 2 years for everyone to build a case, file suit, get a court date. Then 1 to 2 years in court, maybe another 1 to 2 for appeals. 1 year for review to ensure the 209 conditions are met. You also need a BC government supportive of the project and they may have conditions to be met. 6 months to a year more? 7 to 10 years before a shovel hits the ground. Highest success is with the energy east lines and upgrading locally so the products are easier to get out of the province. Keystone XL showed us clearly how much pressure there is from the people of the US and Europe to avoid the perceived "dirty oil". This is where the AB PC's and Harper Cons messed up. They didn't embrace any environmental initiatives provincially or nationally and that made AB/Canada look even worse. Investors did not want to the associated with a jurisdiction that gave and even worse tag line to the term "dirty oil". If we showed positive environmental initiatives and a better track record, public backlash would have been much less and AB would look more desirable. Shot ourselves in the foot!

Your company cuts blamed on the NDP a day after they take office is laughable. Oil was in a downward spiral well before the current gov. Depending on the size of your company, the businesses you and your friends run actually look to gain tax credits! Might want to think about how your assets can help you diversify your business. May be a lot of opportunites coming. One thing for certain, change is happening for better or for worse, whether that be from a provincial government, federal government, social and societal shift, economic shift....it's happening!

 

[LennyR]

Look my company is tied directly to the Oil and Gas industries. When Nothead says she won't pursue the Northern Gateway pipeline this has a instant effect on Oil Sands investment. When she says she is going to "review royalty rates" this instantly effects investment in the patch. Lets me put it to you this way will you snow check a new sled if you don't know what your income is going to be? Ask any dealer how snow checks went this year with the low oil price. Nothead has just made a bad situation worse. Prudent company's are keeping their powder dry right now and that means doing only what they have to no discretionary spending. That effects me today. So it matter not what she has done its what she has said that effects most of us. Prepare for the worst and hope for he best is all we can do.

Nothead hasn't done anything yet, but there does seem to be a sense of desperation in your post. Were your expectations that things would never change ?

 

[Keith Brown]

You have missed my point. The snow check was simply an analogy that I was using to demonstrate how company's make decisions just like most of us. I am more worried about my kids and other young people then myself. Education ain't worth a nickel if you don't have a job. I have had 38 awesome working years here I hope for the same for other young people starting out.

Ahh I think you've hit the nail on the head there....... Most of Alberta doesn't give a **** if you can snow check a new sled.... omg you sound like a spoiled child. Or just like the PC government.... entitled. You aren't. Most of Alberta is concerned with education for their kids, healthcare, and things of actual importance. 90% of Alberta can't afford to snow check new sleds every year.... I've never lived beyond my means... try it sometime. Get back to me when you can't pay rent, or find affordable housing... You refer to "most of us" when in fact oil workers only account for 10% of Alberta's workforce... You've evolved from someone I thought may have been misguided to someone that comes off as a selfish douche.... "oh my how can I have a new sled now!" cry me a ****ing river.

 

[Keith Brown]

OK I know that the only thing that is constant is change. I yes me posts might be a little "desperate" but I am campaigning for anybody but NDP in the next election. Guess I am just a poor sport. The NDP win is kind a like the Oilers win the Stanley Cup or a Flames fan.

Nothead hasn't done anything yet, but there does seem to be a sense of desperation in your post. Were your expectations that things would never change ?

 

[Roy Maxwell]

Say what you want but one thing is for certain when it comes to those on this forum whom I assume are all active in motorized outdoor recreation this is a worst case scenario government. The new NDP MLA's are typically young, socialist, inexperienced idealists predominantly from urban environments (many that won rural ridings were parachuted in from urban centres). It does not show in their profiles but I would be willing to bet that not one of these new MLA's own a sled or an ATV. Many of the PC and Wildrose MLA's were rural and also active in motorized outdoor recreation (my MLA was and as well an executive member of the ASA was on his local board). I am not going to fear monger or say the sky is falling and am taking a wait and see attitude as well but if anyone on this forum thinks this current group of MLA's will be better for motorized outdoor recreational activities than those we had a rapport with and just ousted they are smoking something I would like to get my hands on. What have you done Alberta, have you cut off your hands to spite your face?

 

[Snowdin]

I just a call from the boss. Because of the uncertainty with the current government the company is putting all projects on the shelf and all consultants are now released. They have laid off 80 employee's so far and more to come. You know what the icing on the cake would be folks? For Trudeau to become the PM this fall

 

[101110101101]

You have missed my point. The snow check was simply an analogy that I was using to demonstrate how company's make decisions just like most of us. I am more worried about my kids and other young people then myself. Education ain't worth a nickel if you don't have a job. I have had 38 awesome working years here I hope for the same for other young people starting out.

I'd argue that education is even more valuable when you don't have a job.

 

[Roy Maxwell]

I just a call from the boss. Because of the uncertainty with the current government the company is putting all projects on the shelf and all consultants are now released. They have laid off 80 employee's so far and more to come. You know what the icing on the cake would be folks? For Trudeau to become the PM this fall

You got that right.

 

[j335]

No, it's a 2% increase...... The numbers being compared are already percentages.... (a number based out of 100)..... you don't take a percentage of a percentage... as it's no longer based out of 100.....

Holy fawk, I was planning to be done with these posts but can't take this anymore... Here's an example: lets say as a company I make $100 a year (to keep it simple) and compare a 10% tax vs 12% : $100 x 10%= $10, $100 x 12%= $12 .... So therefore the % increase in tax I payed is as follows: ($12-$10)/$10= 20% increase in tax payed... Also for people interested in learning, Yedlin wrote a VERY GOOD article in the Herald today, it's free to look at it on your smartphone app: Yedlin: Notley needs to offer oilpatch some certainty | Calgary Herald

 

[Eldereldo]

No, it's a 2% increase...... The numbers being compared are already percentages.... (a number based out of 100)..... you don't take a percentage of a percentage... as it's no longer based out of 100.....

Terminology. It is an increase of 2% on the rate of taxation, it is an increase of 20% over the previous rate.

 

[101110101101]

Terminology. It is an increase of 2% on the rate of taxation, it is an increase of 20% over the previous rate.

I can agree with that.... that isn't what he said (IMO) though. Discussing something in relation to the previous number is almost useless... that's the point of percentages, to make them all out of 100. If the previous rate was 50% and you increase it by 20% it's significant... if the previous rate was .000001% and you increase it by 20% ... it's nothing. The point of using percentages is to put everything on even terms so it has meaning.

 

[101110101101]

Holy fawk, I was planning to be done with these posts but can't take this anymore... Here's an example: lets say as a company I make $100 a year (to keep it simple) and compare a 10% tax vs 12% : $100 x 10%= $10, $100 x 12%= $12 .... So therefore the % increase in tax I payed is as follows: ($12-$10)/$10= 20% increase in tax payed... Also for people interested in learning, Yedlin wrote a VERY GOOD article in the Herald today, it's free to look at it on your smartphone app: Yedlin: Notley needs to offer oilpatch some certainty | Calgary Herald

You are changing what was said. which was: "Going from 10 to 12% is a 20% increase. " That sentence can directly be converted to mathematical terms. Going from 10/100 to 12/100 is a 20/100 increase." which is false. The comparison isn't of the new value to the old, the comparison is to the number 100.... that's the entire reason to use percentages... so that you do not even need to know the original value.

 

[101110101101]

I was paying $10$ on every $100, and now I will have to pay $12 on every $100. Can we agree on that wording?

 

[intmid8or!]

so 20% more

 

[snochuk]

Holy fawk, I was planning to be done with these posts but can't take this anymore... Here's an example: lets say as a company I make $100 a year (to keep it simple) and compare a 10% tax vs 12% : $100 x 10%= $10, $100 x 12%= $12 .... So therefore the % increase in tax I payed is as follows: ($12-$10)/$10= 20% increase in tax payed... Also for people interested in learning, Yedlin wrote a VERY GOOD article in the Herald today, it's free to look at it on your smartphone app: Yedlin: Notley needs to offer oilpatch some certainty | Calgary Herald

How bad can musconstruing numbers and stats get to keep this going.
You paid $10 for evry $100 before, now you pay $12 for every $100. That is $2 more per $100. For fawks sake that is a 2% increase. How anybody can get a 20% increase in tax paid is beyond belief unless you a fear monger driver!!!!
The ratio of increase between $10 and $12 is 20% , not an overall increase in taxes of 20%. If you had a 20% increase it would go against the $100 and would make $30. That would be an incease of 20%. It used to be 10% now it will be 12%. Looks like 2% to me.

I am neither pro NDP or a PC or WR but PC needed to be ousted for sure, was hoping for a WR minority. The arrogant old boys club needed their pocket stuffing 44 year party put to rest! Do I fear for our future, you bet as my kids have to develope their lives in the upcoming economy. Like the rest I am waiting to see what will happen, but the PCs needed to get the azz whoppin they got. Notley has 4 years, Albetans have proven that change can occur swiftly when you piss us off, if she starts to make a mess she'll be out. And the most important azz to EVERY politician is their own.

I am hoping for the best with this change. Maybe the middle aged NDPs have less buddies to look after than the PC old boys club had. Maybe big oil is worried as they need need to develope new relationships on who to bribe????? PC was a known????

 

[101110101101]

so 20% more

Nope 20/100 more is not what I'll be paying....

or 20% of the original 10% which = 2% (but that's just silly to say, when we can skip it all and say 2%, already knowing it's out of 100)

 

[handyandy]

Good lord! We just found a mathematical questions that has no answer! My brain hurts

 

[Roy Maxwell]

How bad can musconstruing numbers and stats get to keep this going.
You paid $10 for evry $100 before, now you pay $12 for every $100. That is $2 more per $100. For fawks sake that is a 2% increase. How anybody can get a 20% increase in tax paid is beyond belief unless you a fear monger driver!!!!
The ratio of increase between $10 and $12 is 20% , not an overall increase in taxes of 20%. If you had a 20% increase it would go against the $100 and would make $30. That would be an incease of 20%. It used to be 10% now it will be 12%. Looks like 2% to me.

I am neither pro NDP or a PC or WR but PC needed to be ousted for sure, was hoping for a WR minority. The arrogant old boys club needed their pocket stuffing 44 year party put to rest! Do I fear for our future, you bet as my kids have to develope their lives in the upcoming economy. Like the rest I am waiting to see what will happen, but the PCs needed to get the azz whoppin they got. Notley has 4 years, Albetans have proven that change can occur swiftly when you piss us off, if she starts to make a mess she'll be out. And the most important azz to EVERY politician is their own.

I am hoping for the best with this change. Maybe the middle aged NDPs have less buddies to look after than the PC old boys club had. Maybe big oil is worried as they need need to develope new relationships on who to bribe????? PC was a known????

With all due respect you are overthinking this and you are also wrong. Apparently as Rachel Notley could not grasp this in the debate math must be difficult. Forget the conversion to dollars and all the other detailed analysis that is not relevant. If a tax rate is 10% and that tax rate goes up to 12% then the rate has increased 2% on an initial 10% rate and 2/10=0.20 and when a percentage is expressed as a decimal one multiplies by one hundred to obtain the percentage increase which is a 20% increase in the "rate of tax". The differential between the two rates is 2% and the increase in the "tax rate" not the "taxes payable" is 20%. It is only a 2% increase in "taxes payable" but a 20% increase in the "tax rate". No one said you will be paying 20% more in taxes with a 20% increase in a "tax rate" because that is not the same thing and is not comparing apples to apples. Here is an analogy that might make it more clear. If a tax rate is 1% currently and you double that rate to 2% that is a 100% increase in the "tax rate". That does not mean you will pay a 100% more in taxes because that would mean you are paying 102% in taxes which is not possible.

 

[Riverjet]

Please post links to my previous anti Alberta posts. I'd love to see them. What does where I live have to do with your delusions?

Say what you want about the man but he is a smart investor and him like others are now saying Alberta is not a place he wants to do business anymore because of the new government. You apparently don't understand how we work over here considering your home address and your previous anti Alberta posts.

 

[femme.fatale.]

Now that we've hammered out the math on this....

Say whatever you want, but we are now stuck with this government. It's a change, and human nature is to not like change. That's okay. But panicking and knee jerk reactions are going to cause way bigger problems than the NDP. Just my 2 cents. (or 2%)

We have to be realistically optimistic, otherwise, all this negativity will turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.