My experience with the Tesla Model 3

[ABMax24]

EV chargers are not allowed to sell by kWh so they have to charge by the minute.

I'm curious as to the legislation or reasoning behind this. Seems ludicrous to me, the true cost is the cost of energy. I could however see a by the minute charge for leaving a fully charged car plugged in.

 

[jhurkot]

I'm curious as to the legislation or reasoning behind this. Seems ludicrous to me, the true cost is the cost of energy. I could however see a by the minute charge for leaving a fully charged car plugged in.

I think the reasoning is that they only allow a legitimate utility company to sell a unit of electricity. Commercial companies are not allowed to resell units of power. This is bad IMO because now they just charge a higher rate by the minute and sell 1 kWh @ $0.50. At those prices it’s more expensive than gas. Another weird thing is the petrocanada chargers are $0.33/min for any rate between 0-350kw which seems insane to me. Does not make sense to penalize EV with smaller batteries and charge rates.

 

[Dawizman]

I think the reasoning is that they only allow a legitimate utility company to sell a unit of electricity. Commercial companies are not allowed to resell units of power. This is bad IMO because now they just charge a higher rate by the minute and sell 1 kWh @ $0.50. At those prices it’s more expensive than gas. Another weird thing is the petrocanada chargers are $0.33/min for any rate between 0-350kw which seems insane to me. Does not make sense to penalize EV with smaller batteries and charge rates.

A minute charging a little battery is the same minute that could be charging a big battery.

 

[jhurkot]

A minute charging a little battery is the same minute that could be charging a big battery.

This is true but why charge the same price for a Chevy bolt ($45k) at 50kw as a Porsche taycanne ($210k USD) at 270kw?

 

[Bnorth]

How do the 2 cars compare in purchase price?

How much was the Nissan though? Tesla is an expensive car, Or no? not sure you'd be farther ahead if saving $ is the goal?

The prices of the 2 cars aren't even in the same solar system. Tesla 3 is like $50k with subsidies in for the 400km range model if you want one that is actually useful you lose the subsidies and are into it for $65-75k.

 

[Dawizman]

This is true but why charge the same price for a Chevy bolt ($45k) at 50kw as a Porsche taycanne ($210k USD) at 270kw?

No, I get it, just passing devil's advocate. They just kept the pricing structure uniform instead of tiered. Perhaps it's a good decision for their business, perhaps it's not. Hard to say from the outside.

 

[jhurkot]

No, I get it, just passing devil's advocate. They just kept the pricing structure uniform instead of tiered. Perhaps it's a good decision for their business, perhaps it's not. Hard to say from the outside.

What I see actually playing out is the Porsche user charges and they lose money and the Chevy bolt user drives an ICE vehicle for a long trip because these chargers are more expensive than gas.

 

[52weekbreak]

How much was the Nissan though? Tesla is an expensive car, Or no? not sure you'd be farther ahead if saving $ is the goal?

The Nissan is as comparable to the Model 3 as the Model 3 is to a Taycan. Very different vehicles. My Altima is about $35,000 new compared to the $65,000 for the model three and about $120,000 for the Taycan. At some point the cost of the vehicle doesn't matter if one really wants it. I just found the operating cost comparison interesting. I would also have a number of other expenses in that 200,000 miles - 26 oil changes for starters at about $85 each for another $2,210. Engine air filters (call it five at $45 = $225) and other items that an ICE engine needs that an electric car does not.

There are also costs with electric vs ICE - a home charger for one. That does reduce the estimated cost for electricity to the same rate as your home bill would it not so that would cut the .20 estimate to about .10 right now. A charger will last a long time.

Anyway, I think the features on the car are at a level that is simply not available in any ICE vehicle right now.

Ford F150 ranges from $28,000 to $77,000 according to the website so I guess everyone has their own idea of what creates value for them.

 

[lilduke]

The Nissan is as comparable to the Model 3 as the Model 3 is to a Taycan. Very different vehicles. My Altima is about $35,000 new compared to the $65,000 for the model three and about $120,000 for the Taycan. At some point the cost of the vehicle doesn't matter if one really wants it. I just found the operating cost comparison interesting. I would also have a number of other expenses in that 200,000 miles - 26 oil changes for starters at about $85 each for another $2,210. Engine air filters (call it five at $45 = $225) and other items that an ICE engine needs that an electric car does not.

There are also costs with electric vs ICE - a home charger for one. That does reduce the estimated cost for electricity to the same rate as your home bill would it not so that would cut the .20 estimate to about .10 right now. A charger will last a long time.

Anyway, I think the features on the car are at a level that is simply not available in any ICE vehicle right now.

Ford F150 ranges from $28,000 to $77,000 according to the website so I guess everyone has their own idea of what creates value for them.

Thats true. I want a Ferrari, probably not the most economical car around/

 

[jhurkot]

The Nissan is as comparable to the Model 3 as the Model 3 is to a Taycan. Very different vehicles. My Altima is about $35,000 new compared to the $65,000 for the model three and about $120,000 for the Taycan. At some point the cost of the vehicle doesn't matter if one really wants it. I just found the operating cost comparison interesting. I would also have a number of other expenses in that 200,000 miles - 26 oil changes for starters at about $85 each for another $2,210. Engine air filters (call it five at $45 = $225) and other items that an ICE engine needs that an electric car does not.

There are also costs with electric vs ICE - a home charger for one. That does reduce the estimated cost for electricity to the same rate as your home bill would it not so that would cut the .20 estimate to about .10 right now. A charger will last a long time.

Anyway, I think the features on the car are at a level that is simply not available in any ICE vehicle right now.

Ford F150 ranges from $28,000 to $77,000 according to the website so I guess everyone has their own idea of what creates value for them.

This is all true. Is that 35k altima AWD? Another thing to consider is the resale value on an ICE car purchased today could be pretty horrible 5 years from now.

 

[52weekbreak]

Thats true. I want a Ferrari, probably not the most economical car around/

There are many examples of things each of has wanted, perhaps desperately, that we would have been better off without assuming we got them. Vehicles, in 1978 I put a down payment on an Alfa Romeo that I fell in love with. A few days later I finally realized that it would be a huge financial burden and I live in Alberta where the roads were crappy and we had snow six months a year. Cancelled the order & got my money back. If you can afford a Ferrari without impacting your finances elsewhere GO FOR IT cuz they are really cool.

I really do not get the sense that the model 3 is in that category at all for me at least. It would be the most expensive vehicle I have purchased and that is noticeable as I tend to pay cash.

And then there were some of the woman I wanted to date in my single days. I was lucky in who did date me and maybe even more in those who did not (probably mutual for them too). Ultimately found the person who was right for me 37 years ago. She hasn't smothered me yet

 

[52weekbreak]

This is all true. Is that 35k altima AWD? Another thing to consider is the resale value on an ICE car purchased today could be pretty horrible 5 years from now.

According to the brochure all Altimas are all wheel drive now. You cannot compare the performance though and that really is something that I set aside as I seldom need to floor the car I have now and it is just a naturally aspirated 2.5 liter 4 cylinder. Would certainly be fun to have even if seldom used.

Another philosophy of mine is that I amortize 100% of the vehicle value over five years in my mind and then am happy to receive whatever I get if I sell them. I maintain everything very well and all is kept inside when not in use (well except for the ones I gave to my kids to use). My wife had a 2007 CX9 that that had quite a few miles (220K or so) but was perfect inside and out. She loved and wanted to keep the car but in 2017 someone ran a red light and wrote it off. She still got $13,000 after 10 years so that was a nice bonus.

Anyway, I think for the foreseeable future - say 10 years - there will be a market for quality used vehicles ICE or not. I don't know at what point ICE passenger cars/suv's for soccer moms for the local commute will become like a Pontiac Aztec (meaning most despised and unwanted). Probably at the next advancement in battery power which will help drop the price.

 

[Bikeswithtrax]

Call about annual insurance coverage in BC for an Altima vs. Tesla...let your mind be blown by how much more the tesla costs. Broken batteries in a crash are a real hazard and big replacement expensive. Plus the cost to fix either in a fender bender, or pay out if totaled, drives the insurance cost up by about $1000 per year. I also noticed that most people don't factor in the price of a replacement battery in the ownership costs. Suddenly those oil changes are going to seem really damn cheap. As a former electric car owner, I can say the best thing about it was the day it sold.
Goodbye forever!

 

[lilduke]

gas is 80 cents/L today in Leduc, how long will prices stay like this I wonder?

 

[snopro]

Should call my bulk fuel guy and fill some bulk tanks right now.

 

[jhurkot]

Should call my bulk fuel guy and fill some bulk tanks right now.

We did yesterday at $0.73/L for dyed diesel.

 

[SnowJunkie82]

$0.69/L delivered from Vulcan UFA yesterday.

 

[jhurkot]

https://youtu.be/tLcCPsnLlaE

 

[jhurkot]

I have to fix my last last post about total energy consumption.
52,109km at an average of 179wh/km equals 9,327 kWh total. I however forgot to apply 89% charging efficiency so that takes the total to 10,480 kWh. Then use that to calculate the total cost at $0.20/kWh for a total of $2096.

 

[52weekbreak]

Thanks for the precise calculation but I am wondering if the 11% penalty isn't taken into account at the charging station much like fuel purchases are temperature adjusted to 15 degrees C?

I have to fix my last last post about total energy consumption.
52,109km at an average of 179wh/km equals 9,327 kWh total. I however forgot to apply 89% charging efficiency so that takes the total to 10,480 kWh. Then use that to calculate the total cost at $0.20/kWh for a total of $2096.