My experience with the Tesla Model 3

[ABMax24]

A question we need to ask ourselves is if these cars are really reducing CO2 emissions. An electric car's exhaust simply flows out of a different tailpipe, often far away.

Yes, there's a big difference in emissions of a natural gas combined cycle power plant that runs continuously at an efficiency in excess of 60% and an intermittently operated ICE that never exceeds 40% efficiency.

 

[cattechsummitrider]

Always thought hydrogen was going to be the way to go

 

[lilduke]

is reducing your carbon foot print the only reason you would buy an EV?

clearly not, they do lots of things better than an ICE.

we are many years away from ev''s replacing the iec, in fact it may never happen. but the carbon debate is meaningless unless that is the EV''s only advantage?

I like co2, I breath it out. I don't buy into the carbon is the devil bs we hear every day.

 

[jhurkot]

The EV has an overall [FONT=arial, sans-serif]efficiency of about 60% while the fuel powered car is about 20% (or less) efficient. When one considers the total path from primary energy, the efficiency of the electric car is 60% x 40% (grid efficiency) for a total of 24% while the fuel powered car has an efficiency of about 20%[/FONT]


[FONT=arial, sans-serif]And when you factor in the extra emissions that are made when the ev is built,,,,,, hmmm [/FONT]

Where did you get these made up numbers from? Grid efficiency 40% LOL.

 

[Caper11]

Batteries will be recycled because of the value of the precious metals. It will be cheaper to recycle a battery than mine new material.

94km in polar vortex using about 21-24kWh (sitting outside at night without being plugged in)
94km in 10 degrees is using 16kWh
94km in 20 degrees 13kWh

Still running winter tires as well.

500km of range (could probably get 600km of city driving but I'm not a taxi driver) with the equivalent energy value of 9L of gasoline. 1.8L/100km.
Explain to me how an ICE engine that is running at 25% efficiency is better? Every time you come to a stop you lose ALL your kinetic energy as a net loss and cause wear on your brake components.

Now as far as technology goes, if you buy a car that can not be updated over the air (OTA) you have bought something that is obsolete.
Here is a list of things that have improved since purchase via software...
Built in dash cam
Automatic updates of google maps
Ability to enter and exit highways automatically
Ability to pass slower moving vehicles on the highway with no confirmation (steering wheel vibrates and then lane change is executed)
Red light warning if you appear to run a red light
30hp increase (0-60 from 4.8s to 4.4s)
Sentry mode, activates cameras while vehicle is parked and sends notification to phone if vehicle is disturbed
Teslatari, classic Atari games you can play while parked
Supercharging rate increased from 120kw to 150kw and improved battery conditioning when navigating to supercharger location (basically gets the battery ready for a high charge rate)
Supercharger V3 will charge at 250kw (1600km/h rate) coming soon
Advanced summon will drive the car to your location in a parking lot or drop you off and find its own parking spot (coming soon)

Do you think the children of the iPhone/iPad generation are going to be filling their cars with gasoline or diesel?

It is a sad day that these autonomous cars and trucks would start taking over. Whats wrong with this world? People cannot back up, parallel park, (Ford) and now it looks like to be a increase in lack of driving skills.

Right now it’s looking like the best security system out there is a manual transmission. The next generation wants it easy and not work for it, unfortunately our generation is actually encouraging this culture by allowing this sort of technology.

IMO in order to get a drivers license now it should be done in a manual transmission, pickup truck.

 

[jhurkot]

It is a sad day that these autonomous cars and trucks would start taking over. Whats wrong with this world? People cannot back up, parallel park, (Ford) and now it looks like to be a increase in lack of driving skills.

Right now it’s looking like the best security system out there is a manual transmission. The next generation wants it easy and not work for it, unfortunately our generation is actually encouraging this culture by allowing this sort of technology.

IMO in order to get a drivers license now it should be done in a manual transmission, pickup truck.

Driving a stickshift is not hard. If you want to act like you are some kind of martyr because you "had to shift gears" then go ahead. People who rode horses as their primary mode of transportation would say that your generation is sad and wants everything easy.

https://youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg

 

[Cdnfireman]

Everything you wrote also applies to the oil and gas industry, yet we can still buy oil based products at mostly reasonable prices.

What is overlooked is the fact that there a very limited number of electric vehicles near end of life currently, and many companies including Tesla are reusing their old batteries from the automotive side into energy storage such as the Tesla powerwall. These batteries are being pulled out of cars when they see a 10% degradation in performance, something that doesn't matter for energy storage, a few extra batteries inside the Powerwall won't matter to the end use consumer. There are technologies out available to recycle Lithium batteries they are expensive however. Maybe what should be done is pay a fee is paid upon purchase of the vehicle to cover this recycling cost, much like we currently do for electronics, drink containers, tires, or refrigerants.

End of life cleanup is a major issue for most industries, look at the old smelters in Ontario that the government is cleaning up, the Orphan well program in Alberta for bankrupt oil companies that the taxpayer is on the hook for, the coal power plants in the US that have reached end of life and power companies have walked away from leaving taxpayers to pay to demolish. This is not a problem unique to EV's, it exists in almost all industry, but no politician wants to enact legislation to fix this, they'd rather continue to push the problem to the next generation.

All true..... but given that why would we introduce another toxic wast stream into the mix? Ev's are overpriced now and including a battery recycling fee on top will only make them more unaffordable.
I get the technology behind the concept, you cant argue that an electrically powered vehicle isn't superior to a liquid fuel machine.... the torque properties of the electric motor alone make it a superior drive method, and lets face it even the conventional vehicles of today are becoming electronic gadget boxes.
What destroys their technologic advantages is the method to deliver the electricity. current batteries suck, and whatever battery comes down the pike better be able to replicate the gas/diesel powered vehicle performance and refuelling characteristics for a reasonable price or they're never gonna replace what exists now for other than feel good urban commuter crates.

 

[Caper11]

Driving a stickshift is not hard. If you want to act like you are some kind of martyr because you "had to shift gears" then go ahead. People who rode horses as their primary mode of transportation would say that your generation is sad and wants everything easy.

https://youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg

Lol Martyr ??? Yah right, someone who has never drove a stick shift before finds it very difficult to learn, especially if the transmission is non synchronous.
No there is a difference here, I didnt have to learn how to drive a stick shift, I wanted to.
Automatic transmissions are boring to me, and it takes the fun out of the driving experience, but some are happier being a passenger than the driver and are afraid of a challenge.

 

[ABMax24]

All true..... but given that why would we introduce another toxic wast stream into the mix? Ev's are overpriced now and including a battery recycling fee on top will only make them more unaffordable.
I get the technology behind the concept, you cant argue that an electrically powered vehicle isn't superior to a liquid fuel machine.... the torque properties of the electric motor alone make it a superior drive method, and lets face it even the conventional vehicles of today are becoming electronic gadget boxes.
What destroys their technologic advantages is the method to deliver the electricity. current batteries suck, and whatever battery comes down the pike better be able to replicate the gas/diesel powered vehicle performance and refuelling characteristics for a reasonable price or they're never gonna replace what exists now for other than feel good urban commuter crates.

There are many people and research institutes working on battery technology currently, the next 15 years will move us a long way forward. Even look back 10 years, Tesla was an almost unknown company and had only produced 500 cars by June of 2009. To date they have built over 500,000. Electric does have it's limitations but it is getting to the point were many people, particularly in urban centers can cover 100% of their driving needs with one. Even the current 100kwh batteries are a huge leap forward, that's the equivalent of over 125 traditional lead acid batteries, or the 2000 50wh cordless drill batteries.

It is unfortunate that these batteries need to be produced with rare-earth metals mined mostly in 3rd world countries, but if we can develop these resources responsibly it can help lift the citizens of these areas out of poverty while providing the resources needed to build these cars.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Let’s hope so. The world doesn’t have a great track record with exploitation in the third world. Even worse now with China doing the exploration and investment.

 

[jhurkot]

Let’s hope so. The world doesn’t have a great track record with exploitation in the third world. Even worse now with China doing the exploration and investment.

If you can do a 525km trip with one 11 minute charging stop, does that mean that current batteries suck?

 

[Cdnfireman]

If you can do a 525km trip with one 11 minute charging stop, does that mean that current batteries suck?

So you’re saying that you can drive 525km, charge it for 11 minutes then go another 525km?

 

[jhurkot]

So you’re saying that you can drive 525km, charge it for 11 minutes then go another 525km?

No sir. I would get there at night, plug in, and wake up with a fully charged battery in the morning.



The website I use for trip planning is https://abetterrouteplanner.com
You can enter which EV you have and it will figure out charging cost, time, and total trip time.

 

[Cdnfireman]

No sir. I would get there at night, plug in, and wake up with a fully charged battery in the morning.



The website I use for trip planning is https://abetterrouteplanner.com
You can enter which EV you have and it will figure out charging cost, time, and total trip time.

Going by the info in your pic above it look like your max range is probably closer to 400 km. You left Lethbridge with 100%, drove to red deer (312km) arrived with 28%, hammered a quick high current Tesla charge station charge to 50%, then carried on to St Albert arriving with 10% charge.
So in order to get from Lethbridge to St Albert, you charged overnight ( say 10hrs?), drive to red deer, had to do a quick charge because you couldn’t do the last 176 km, then make it to St. Albert with your battery pretty much dead.
So in reality, 10+ hrs charge to do 500km, not 11 minutes.

 

[Cyle]

No sir. I would get there at night, plug in, and wake up with a fully charged battery in the morning.



The website I use for trip planning is https://abetterrouteplanner.com
You can enter which EV you have and it will figure out charging cost, time, and total trip time.

Still a long ways to go to get decent range. Also see you are only traveling around 100km/hr, jump that to 120 and it would be terrible. For example going to Banff in the winter, no way would I want to have to stop on the way there and back for a charge, so annoying. Never mind a long trip of 10-12 hours driving in a day.

Hate to say it, but I think there's a very good reason Telsa has never been profitable. Still a very limited market of people who want a vehicle with such limited capabilities.

 

[Steve D]

Still a long ways to go to get decent range. Also see you are only traveling around 100km/hr, jump that to 120 and it would be terrible. For example going to Banff in the winter, no way would I want to have to stop on the way there and back for a charge, so annoying. Never mind a long trip of 10-12 hours driving in a day.

Hate to say it, but I think there's a very good reason Telsa has never been profitable. Still a very limited market of people who want a vehicle with such limited capabilities.

That market is getting better all the time and the capabilities are getting better all the time. Right now nobody is holding a gun to anyone's heads. Northern travellers might be the last ones to adopt but that doesn't mean EV sales are hurting.

And let's not get into Tesla's profitability... that's a huge waste of time to argue. Amazon spent the first 20 years building infrastructure, re-investing in itself and everyone said it'd fail because it wasn't profitable... and then all of a sudden "holy sh!t, Bezo's is the the richest man in the world by a significant amount." Tesla has been spending a pile of money getting their production, their super-charging network and other tech developed.

 

[X-it]

They do have a great computer screen and unreal acceleration. To bad all cars did not lose the instrument clusters, in favor of that computer screen. Draining the batteries bellow 40% does shorten the battery life. like all batteries once they get warn down they sucks big time.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested

 

[Stompin Tom]

What we all have to remember is electric vehicles are aimed at the mass population, hence big cities where vehicle emissions are a huge problem. LA, New York, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, frankly allot of the US of A, mostly shorter commutes and a range of 300 km per day would be more than adequate. Frankly I am in full support of electric vehicles in bigger population areas, allowing them to see the sun again would be a nice change.

Now up here in good old Canada, quite a different story, I can see Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto becoming big electric car centers in the not to distant future, but the rest of us, the lowly outsiders, the working men and women, just a niche thing for those who really want them and are willing to change their driving and life styles to suit the situation. The rest of us? Its a long ways before they become viable.

What is really going to piss me off is what happens to the infrastructure to make this happen, us, the outsiders will be taking it up the ass in order for the big city boys to have their electronic vehicles. Road tax's, increased power costs, increased infrastructure costs. We know we will be paying far more than our fair share to make this happen.

 

[jhurkot]

Going by the info in your pic above it look like your max range is probably closer to 400 km. You left Lethbridge with 100%, drove to red deer (312km) arrived with 28%, hammered a quick high current Tesla charge station charge to 50%, then carried on to St Albert arriving with 10% charge.
So in order to get from Lethbridge to St Albert, you charged overnight ( say 10hrs?), drive to red deer, had to do a quick charge because you couldn’t do the last 176 km, then make it to St. Albert with your battery pretty much dead.
So in reality, 10+ hrs charge to do 500km, not 11 minutes.

No. ABRP takes into account wind and temperature. It was a headwind and 3 degrees.

I’m not sure how you are confusing 11minutes for 10 hours. It says right in the table. I’m saying that when I get to the destination I plug in before I go to sleep and wake up with a full charge. Total duration of trip is 5h2m.

 

[jhurkot]

They do have a great computer screen and unreal acceleration. To bad all cars did not lose the instrument clusters, in favor of that computer screen. Draining the batteries bellow 40% does shorten the battery life. like all batteries once they get warn down they sucks big time.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested

Wrong again. Draining the battery below 40% does not have any negative impact on the life of the battery.