More ammunition for the resistance

[Summiteer]

B.C. approves Jumbo Glacier Mountain ski resort - British Columbia - CBC News

 

[powderhoundbrr]

B.C. approves Jumbo Glacier Mountain ski resort - British Columbia - CBC News

Jumbo, very controversial around here.....

 

[moyiesledhead]

WTF????? We're certainly all over the map today! See why we keep losing the battles?

 

[CUSO]

I got a similar response as Modman from the editor. He has tried to contact the local sled groups. Unfortunately the groups have to be careful as to what they say to the media and so forth, or there may be detrimental consequences. Wiegele is a powerful man who gets his way. He also asked me to give him some of my personal info before they can publish any letters to the editor.
Guess I will be watching to see if my letter gets in the paper...

I think the sledding population has to make the difference. Write to this guy, maybe he will have the balls to print an article on the other side of the coin.

 

[BirdieO]

With all do respect to everyone that has posted on this thread; it is so easy to get wrapped up in the emotion, we sometimes lose sight of the real issues.

It is a fact of life that bureaucracy is what makes the world go round. To make a ridiculously large scale comparison; would we see the President of the USA or Prime Minister of Canada writing a letter to a small town newspaper editor to get their point across when some leader of the opposition slanders them or their politics? Probably not. What we would, most likely, see is a strategic, well thought out response with a longer term plan behind it and after all the fan fair and hoopla had passed, as it will, those in power would continue to fight their battle and continue on with their plan. It's not glamorous, it's not front page news most of the time but at the end of the day there is an accomplishment and that is what matters.

I feel passionately about this topic - just like everyone else here but; if we want to gain any amount of respect as a community, we need to recognize that there is a process that must be followed. Going off on grammatically incorrect, spelling error riddled, tangents on a public forum that everyone has access to, does little to help the overall cause and at the end of the day only solidifies the stereotype that our nay-Sayers have already formed.

As far as what our clubs are doing for us; I am totally ignorant to that - I honestly have very little of an idea of what our clubs actually do. Am I proud of that statement? No, I think it's sad that I have invested so little of myself into a community I care so much about. I will be the last person to criticize or judge how they have gone about business on this topic or any other because I have never attended a meeting, I have never volunteered my time, I just write a cheque at the beginning of the season, get my sticker and receive the newsletter.

What I find especially interesting through all of this is how quickly we all; myself included, trusted the Editor and his alleged attempts to get a comment from the BCSF. When given the opportunity to trust those we call leaders in our community, we failed. Instead we blindly put our trust into someone we know nothing about, know nothing of his intentions, alliances or motivations. That's backwards.

One thing I know for sure, there have been plenty of major 'movements' in history; none of which were successful because of a handful of rogue, passionate people discussing their thoughts and feelings amongst themselves. They were successful because they had strong leadership, a clear voice and a multitude of supporters that were willing and able to give of themselves for the cause.

I believe we have strong leadership; if we all work together, we can have a clear voice and if we all decide that the cause is as important as which sled to ride, which skis to run or who's turbo is better, then we have a HUGE group of supporters!

 

[OOC ZigZag]

Jared great to hook up. Wonder if Skidoo Yammi Polaris Cat Manuf could lend a hand to the fight. I dont think its fair that Wigs gets to claim right to access with motorized equip that clearly has as much if not more impact on the wildlife enviornment as sleds do. In other words if he has 500 runs over say the area of like Banff he would be using a very minimal amount why as back country reacreationalists can't we enjoy the same right for the same area. Many other heli and cat ski ops coexist with sledders. Pretty sure the area villages that Wigs operates in Vale Blue are alot happier with sledder biz than heli op biz. Pretty sure sledders go along way towards Valmounts and Blue Rivers economies in the winter season. Jumbo is sad another skihill that close to Panorama hmmmmm Fortress Nakiska all over again only larger scale and much more pristine area. Little bird told me to breath and count to 10 gets tough when you love the sport. I'll think about it tomorrow while i'm out in nipple deep

 

[LBZ]

I wonder if the sled manufacturers do anything in the east to maintain and support the trail systems? I heard a rumour that there is some support out there from the big 4 and if this is true, there really is no reason they can't send some support out west to the organizations that represent the vested interest of all of us back country enthusiasts as well.
Would be interesting to talk to a couple of the manufacturer's to see how interested they would be in offering some sort of support-in any way. It would likely have to be something that would be beneficial to them though and in no way could pose a negative view of them for them to be interested for obvious reasons........

 

[jaredszakacs]

you would hope that the manufacturers would do something if they lose sledding in the west they have lost a nice chunk of there overall sales so they may wanna contribute a bit to this. good to sit down with you as well zigzag. Modman i hope your article will get published it was a really good article

 

[catinthehat]

you would hope that the manufacturers would do something if they lose sledding in the west they have lost a nice chunk of there overall sales so they may wanna contribute a bit to this. good to sit down with you as well zigzag. Modman i hope your article will get published it was a really good article

While the numbers are growing mountain sleds are still a very small percentage of their overall sales. That being said there is no reason they shouldn't be as concerned as us over the loss of riding areas.

 

[jaredszakacs]

forsure and you are 100% right it is a tiny share for them that is true and yes very right they should be just as concerned as we are on this one! I would think some of our sport ambassadors would step in a bit more cause it will be there loss as well if more and more areas get shut down! The guys with riding clinics and resorts should definately be getting in on this and helping it out wich i'm sure they all do in different ways but sledding is some people's lively hoods just like heli skiing is for wiegle.

 

[Modman]

With all do respect to everyone that has posted on this thread; it is so easy to get wrapped up in the emotion, we sometimes lose sight of the real issues.

It is a fact of life that bureaucracy is what makes the world go round. To make a ridiculously large scale comparison; would we see the President of the USA or Prime Minister of Canada writing a letter to a small town newspaper editor to get their point across when some leader of the opposition slanders them or their politics? Probably not. What we would, most likely, see is a strategic, well thought out response with a longer term plan behind it and after all the fan fair and hoopla had passed, as it will, those in power would continue to fight their battle and continue on with their plan. It's not glamorous, it's not front page news most of the time but at the end of the day there is an accomplishment and that is what matters.

I feel passionately about this topic - just like everyone else here but; if we want to gain any amount of respect as a community, we need to recognize that there is a process that must be followed. Going off on grammatically incorrect, spelling error riddled, tangents on a public forum that everyone has access to, does little to help the overall cause and at the end of the day only solidifies the stereotype that our nay-Sayers have already formed.

As far as what our clubs are doing for us; I am totally ignorant to that - I honestly have very little of an idea of what our clubs actually do. Am I proud of that statement? No, I think it's sad that I have invested so little of myself into a community I care so much about. I will be the last person to criticize or judge how they have gone about business on this topic or any other because I have never attended a meeting, I have never volunteered my time, I just write a cheque at the beginning of the season, get my sticker and receive the newsletter.

What I find especially interesting through all of this is how quickly we all; myself included, trusted the Editor and his alleged attempts to get a comment from the BCSF. When given the opportunity to trust those we call leaders in our community, we failed. Instead we blindly put our trust into someone we know nothing about, know nothing of his intentions, alliances or motivations. That's backwards.

One thing I know for sure, there have been plenty of major 'movements' in history; none of which were successful because of a handful of rogue, passionate people discussing their thoughts and feelings amongst themselves. They were successful because they had strong leadership, a clear voice and a multitude of supporters that were willing and able to give of themselves for the cause.

I believe we have strong leadership; if we all work together, we can have a clear voice and if we all decide that the cause is as important as which sled to ride, which skis to run or who's turbo is better, then we have a HUGE group of supporters!

Thanks for the post, please don't take anything I'm about to say personally. Your post brings to light some key points that sledders should be aware of and should be addressed - but I also think we should back up about 3 steps here. No one said anything about putting all our faith in "jesus the editor" LOL. I've had some further communication with him about the issues so maybe I have a little better read on his intent but am in no way trusting of the media. How about you? Who else wrote a letter, called the editor, emailed the BCSF? You seem to be asking us to put faith in our hope that someone else will take care of it for us, under some larger veil of the democratic process. If the govt was proposing to pass legislation that made it mandatory that Canadian companies moved their offices to 3rd world countries to lower labour rates, people would probably write their MLA a letter......

You mention the real issues. I thought we were dealing with real issues - like terrain closures or more regulation, pretty much what Wiggles is asking for. Am I missing something?

Why do we care so much about the nay-sayers and what they think? They already think we are a bunch of neanderthal, beer swilling rednecks who chase caribou. That perception was put out there by the media a long time ago and is still being re-inforced in the article above. While we are caring about grammar, they are using this perception to close riding areas.

This is the time of social media. Forums like this and facebook pages get your message out. I get the fact that maybe our representing organizations do not want to respond for fear of the media twisting their words, I get it really. If responding to one little operators comments is not worth their time, that is acceptable. A response saying "we are not responding, simply not worth our time" is better than no response. Everytime someone accuses you of something and you don't respond, one of two perceptions typically occur IMO: outside observers (joe public) think you don't care (be it arrogance or stupidity), or that by lack of response it is omission of guilt.

We can call out people's grammar and syntax, attitude etc, but at least we aren't going down without a fight, some have done our part and spoken out. Historical events were not started on the democratic process or by couch potatoes, those events were started by people who didn't lie down and become the opposition's doormat, by revolutionary's and people with vision. Had the world not stood up to Hitler, there would be no WW2 to read about today. Had the south not stood up to the north, there would never have been an American Civil upheaval. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks....etc etc. None of these people accepted the "Status Quo" and hoped someone else would do it for them.

There is an old passage written by a German Pastor in WW2, called "First they came..": 
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

When are you going to start speaking out for yourself?

 

[HRT Offroad]

Modman...could you please enlighten us on what the editor's described intent is? Maybe this would help put things into a different perspective.

 

[Modman]

Modman...could you please enlighten us on what the editor's described intent is? Maybe this would help put things into a different perspective.

Officially enlighten? Sorry, couldn't tell you what his described intent was, I never asked him directly. I asked him about the "incident", he was honest (as I took it) about how it came up and feels their comments were legit, and he didn't feel it was fabricated for his benefit or the newspaper. He was actively trying to seek a comment from either organization, both Cuso and I got the same comments back. He is willing to publish our letters, and asked me for contact info so that he could.

When I have replied to reporters articles in the past, the tone of their replies has been very different, and none of them have asked me for contact info for our representing organization(s) or even commented on trying to contact them. Same thing with other reporters, they have never offered to publish letters or even made the mention, he was open to it. Only one way to find out and that is to talk with him directly (and even then you'd have to be careful), unfortunately I do not represent either organization, so I wouldn't talk with him beyond my letter and didn't ask him about his intentions, since I won't comment its a moot point. He didn't ask me for an official quote/comment or anything, or try to pry more info, he wants to talk with the BCSF or ABSnow, not me.

Here's a comment from one of his emails: "Do you know anyone with BC Snowmobile Federation and/or Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs? I've sent two emails plus made a phone call to both organizations over the past two weeks and neither have got back to me."

 

[OOC ZigZag]

Officially enlighten? Sorry, couldn't tell you what his described intent was, I never asked him directly. I asked him about the "incident", he was honest (as I took it) about how it came up and feels their comments were legit, and he didn't feel it was fabricated for his benefit or the newspaper. He was actively trying to seek a comment from either organization, both Cuso and I got the same comments back. He is willing to publish our letters, and asked me for contact info so that he could.

When I have replied to reporters articles in the past, the tone of their replies has been very different, and none of them have asked me for contact info for our representing organization(s) or even commented on trying to contact them. Same thing with other reporters, they have never offered to publish letters or even made the mention, he was open to it. Only one way to find out and that is to talk with him directly (and even then you'd have to be careful), unfortunately I do not represent either organization, so I wouldn't talk with him beyond my letter and didn't ask him about his intentions, since I won't comment its a moot point. He didn't ask me for an official quote/comment or anything, or try to pry more info, he wants to talk with the BCSF or ABSnow, not me.

Here's a comment from one of his emails: "Do you know anyone with BC Snowmobile Federation and/or Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs? I've sent two emails plus made a phone call to both organizations over the past two weeks and neither have got back to me."

Wow if neither group could comment on such an important issue seems kinda unprofessional. I know its not a big paper but its the area the media directly affects. Could have been a great op for a rebutal. Muxt be some sledders have video (pics) of MTN caribou that are not startled or running frantically from the machines.JMHO

 

[CUSO]

Some earlier articles. No concrete data/evidence of much...
Clearwater Times - Wiegele unhappy with reference to heli-skiing
Clearwater Times - Caribou population threatened with decline
Clearwater Times - Facts indicate wolf population needs to be managed