More ammunition for the resistance
- Thread starter Bnorth
- Start date
good point...however there is also thousands of wealthy sledders and were letting 1 85 year old man walk all over us.
what to do....what to do.....
just did some math. if he runs those 10 choppers all day thats 17,500 litres of fuel LOL
True,,not just this old guy but the greenies in general are way more organized and well funded,,ie WWF,Grean Peace ect..
Sure we have tons of good local clubs doing what they can,,but sleders and other off road enthusiasts, need a big central rallying point that stands togther and fights as one...
Call it the World Powder Preservationist for Future Bondocking Fund...or WPPFFBF for short..lol With Off roaders from Colorado to Australia to Finland to BC,, all over the world fighting as one for land use,, every corner of the planet is in the same perdicament as us with the battle over land use,,and off roaders of all kinds are loosing big time...
Organisation is the key to our survival,, and im just not smart eneogh to take on the task or i would...lol
Or we could all just pitch in on rocket launchers and shoot down enemy helli skiers...lol
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ZRrrr
Active VIP Member
Can't remember the exact film, but I was watching a Warren Miller movie where they were filming with Wiegele. Near the end of the Wiegele segment he talks about taking his guides into extreme, dangerous, avalanche areas to reward them with untouched steep and deep. WTF!!!
Here is the info to the editor to the newspaper.
newsroom@clearwatertimes.com
Keith Mcneill
I wrote him this letter:
Keith,
I am a backcountry snowmobiler. Wiegele seems to toot his horn once a year and it always ends up in an untrue anti-snowmobiling campaign. First of all, just one of his helicopters burn leaded fuel and each loud chopper burns 120 litres an hour. His company does not support the local economy, his workers are flown in, his clients are flown in, his food is flown in, they are brought to HIS lodge via chopper with no community interaction. There is MINIMAL local community support, while charging wealthy foreign clients $10,000 a week to use our backcountry.
Wiegele tells stories of us snowmobilers always riding in closed areas, While there might be a remote case of that happening, there are thousands of snowmobilers every day that obey the rules. The whole snowmobiling community suffers and gets shamed from one incident. Unfortunately we have no control in this. My sport is recreation, and I do it with my friends and famly. His is business.
All the local associations and snowmobiling clubs work hard with the heliskiers and government to come up with agreements to protect the mountain caribou, allow business tenures, and also create "peace" in the backcountry. Wiegele has 191 mountain peaks to do his business. We as recreational sledders are not so lucky and have a handfull. Do we go out and tell the media B.S. lies about him?
I ask you to interview Blue river powder packers, or V.A.R.D.A. See what they say about sledding and their community. I would guarantee they will not bad mouth heliskiers. We have more class than that. Plus we also give to the community. We buy food, fuel, property, rent hotel rooms, trail passes, in general we spend our hard earned money to support the locals. The Blue River and Valemount communities would be ghost towns in the winter if it were not for us. We are not monsters.
Keith, Please don't fall into this Wiegele's trap.
Thank you.
newsroom@clearwatertimes.com
Keith Mcneill
I wrote him this letter:
Keith,
I am a backcountry snowmobiler. Wiegele seems to toot his horn once a year and it always ends up in an untrue anti-snowmobiling campaign. First of all, just one of his helicopters burn leaded fuel and each loud chopper burns 120 litres an hour. His company does not support the local economy, his workers are flown in, his clients are flown in, his food is flown in, they are brought to HIS lodge via chopper with no community interaction. There is MINIMAL local community support, while charging wealthy foreign clients $10,000 a week to use our backcountry.
Wiegele tells stories of us snowmobilers always riding in closed areas, While there might be a remote case of that happening, there are thousands of snowmobilers every day that obey the rules. The whole snowmobiling community suffers and gets shamed from one incident. Unfortunately we have no control in this. My sport is recreation, and I do it with my friends and famly. His is business.
All the local associations and snowmobiling clubs work hard with the heliskiers and government to come up with agreements to protect the mountain caribou, allow business tenures, and also create "peace" in the backcountry. Wiegele has 191 mountain peaks to do his business. We as recreational sledders are not so lucky and have a handfull. Do we go out and tell the media B.S. lies about him?
I ask you to interview Blue river powder packers, or V.A.R.D.A. See what they say about sledding and their community. I would guarantee they will not bad mouth heliskiers. We have more class than that. Plus we also give to the community. We buy food, fuel, property, rent hotel rooms, trail passes, in general we spend our hard earned money to support the locals. The Blue River and Valemount communities would be ghost towns in the winter if it were not for us. We are not monsters.
Keith, Please don't fall into this Wiegele's trap.
Thank you.
Copy of the letter I sent:
Dear Mr. McNeil,
I’m writing to you in response to your article re: Mr. Weigle’s comments in the Clearwater Times.
It has long been a standing issue with Mr. Weigle and other backcountry uses who share a public resource in the central BC area. While isolated incidents occur and sometimes taken out of context, other backcountry users such as snowmobilers, are not wildlife “abusers” hell bent on destroying the ecosystem or endangered species . Having been an avid sledder for over 20 yrs, I have never seen and/or even heard of anyone maliciously chasing mountain caribou with a snowmobile or even on skis. Caribou can actively seek shelter in trees or terrain simply not accessible to snowmobiles or skiers, unlike a helicopter which is not limited by terrain. Snowmobiles accessing an area will be heard from a long distance away by animals and snowmobilers are not malicious in their use or intent within the backcountry.
In contrast, helicopters with turbine engines are extremely loud and can travel in excess of 100 mph over the same terrain, and can crest ridges and mountain tops to surprise and frighten animals who are not aware they are even coming. It was indicated that the animals have become habituated to the sounds of a helicopter, would they not also have learned to become habituated to the sounds of a snowmobile as well? Did they selectively choose to recognize one and not the other?
The article also mentions clientele who are environmentally-aware – Quote: “The heli-ski operator pointed out that the majority of his clientele are environmentally aware and would not tolerate any procedures that might be harmful to wildlife….Some are even on the boards of well-known international environmental organizations.”
Are these same clientele aware of the impact that helicopters and the other operations at the heli lodge have environmentally? Helicopters burn aviation fuel, commonly in excess of a thousand liters per day, and Mr. Weigle’s information says they can operate up to 10 helicopters daily. Mr. Weigle’s facilities also encompasses numerous buildings and lodges, including 24 chalets, each requiring its own landbase (footprint), heat, sewer, water, power, etc. Private chefs and staff also have to be housed, clothed, fed etc, requiring more resources for operations. While I’m sure it’s nice, I’m curious how 5 star cuisine makes the skiing better, after all, isn’t that what it’s really about? I read his environmental stewardship policy, it does not mention anything about having his clients hike into the backcountry….
It’s amazing how many other heli-ski operations and sledders get along, and yet we see a consistent trend from one. Sledders and other backcountry users of the area where Weigle Skiing operates share a vast resource that is owned by the people of BC, and there is no exclusive use for one user group. This is a public resource. To put it into perspective, Mr. Weigle operates a ski tenure almost as large as Banff National Park. Banff National Park is a preserved area, for the use of all Canadians, and Mr. Weigle’s private operation takes up almost the same geographical footprint, for his private heli-ski use. So if anyone should be regulated in their use of the public backcountry, it should be an operator with an operating tenure 3 times the size of urban Toronto, the largest city in Canada and 5[SUP]th[/SUP] largest in North America.
Thank you,
Dear Mr. McNeil,
I’m writing to you in response to your article re: Mr. Weigle’s comments in the Clearwater Times.
It has long been a standing issue with Mr. Weigle and other backcountry uses who share a public resource in the central BC area. While isolated incidents occur and sometimes taken out of context, other backcountry users such as snowmobilers, are not wildlife “abusers” hell bent on destroying the ecosystem or endangered species . Having been an avid sledder for over 20 yrs, I have never seen and/or even heard of anyone maliciously chasing mountain caribou with a snowmobile or even on skis. Caribou can actively seek shelter in trees or terrain simply not accessible to snowmobiles or skiers, unlike a helicopter which is not limited by terrain. Snowmobiles accessing an area will be heard from a long distance away by animals and snowmobilers are not malicious in their use or intent within the backcountry.
In contrast, helicopters with turbine engines are extremely loud and can travel in excess of 100 mph over the same terrain, and can crest ridges and mountain tops to surprise and frighten animals who are not aware they are even coming. It was indicated that the animals have become habituated to the sounds of a helicopter, would they not also have learned to become habituated to the sounds of a snowmobile as well? Did they selectively choose to recognize one and not the other?
The article also mentions clientele who are environmentally-aware – Quote: “The heli-ski operator pointed out that the majority of his clientele are environmentally aware and would not tolerate any procedures that might be harmful to wildlife….Some are even on the boards of well-known international environmental organizations.”
Are these same clientele aware of the impact that helicopters and the other operations at the heli lodge have environmentally? Helicopters burn aviation fuel, commonly in excess of a thousand liters per day, and Mr. Weigle’s information says they can operate up to 10 helicopters daily. Mr. Weigle’s facilities also encompasses numerous buildings and lodges, including 24 chalets, each requiring its own landbase (footprint), heat, sewer, water, power, etc. Private chefs and staff also have to be housed, clothed, fed etc, requiring more resources for operations. While I’m sure it’s nice, I’m curious how 5 star cuisine makes the skiing better, after all, isn’t that what it’s really about? I read his environmental stewardship policy, it does not mention anything about having his clients hike into the backcountry….
It’s amazing how many other heli-ski operations and sledders get along, and yet we see a consistent trend from one. Sledders and other backcountry users of the area where Weigle Skiing operates share a vast resource that is owned by the people of BC, and there is no exclusive use for one user group. This is a public resource. To put it into perspective, Mr. Weigle operates a ski tenure almost as large as Banff National Park. Banff National Park is a preserved area, for the use of all Canadians, and Mr. Weigle’s private operation takes up almost the same geographical footprint, for his private heli-ski use. So if anyone should be regulated in their use of the public backcountry, it should be an operator with an operating tenure 3 times the size of urban Toronto, the largest city in Canada and 5[SUP]th[/SUP] largest in North America.
Thank you,
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Possibly ahole needs 100 to 200 sleds parked out front of his op for a couple weekends and see if we cant start to affect his bizz negative way. I mean encircle his op completly. Lets see if the tree huggers want to deal with some redneck justice. Personally for me with all the spouting he has done over the years I'd preffer just to kick the chit out of the ahole.
Pretty sure heli is motorized equip you fawken hypocrit.
Pretty sure heli is motorized equip you fawken hypocrit.
"On more than one occasion, caribou have moved in among a group of skiers, apparently seeking to escape from nearby snowmobilers, he said"
"Three caribou gather next to a flag that marks a heli-ski landing site on the Tiffany Run northwest of Blue River. The animals appear to like the landing sites because the snow is easier to stand on. The fact that they are often seen on the sites is evidence they are comfortable with helicopters in the area, say staff at Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing."
"One area they heli-skiers used to call Caribou Hideout is now called Caribou Chase."
Mr Editor and Mr Weigele..... Give your heads a shake!
What animal is gonna run to hide in the cover of that rotor wash and noise? I highly doubt that the animals in that picture are gonna stick around when that heli comes to pick up or drop off skiers, no matter what kinda realationship Mr Weigele and the caribou have.
I have been startled multiple times when the helis buzz over top of us, even over the sound of the sled and with a helmet on you can hear and feel the sound of the blades from a heli. A sled doesnt sneak up like the helis do. A sled isnt doing 100mph that pops over a ridge scaring the crap out of everthing in sight.
Heck sometimes i cant even hear a sled that is 50 ft away from me in the trees. With out the radio's i wouldnt even know there was a sled around me.
I have no issue's with needed closers to protect the wildlife and no isssues with heli skiing in general. But Mr Weigle, dont try and make us look bad in order to pad your pockets and keep everything for yourself!
"Three caribou gather next to a flag that marks a heli-ski landing site on the Tiffany Run northwest of Blue River. The animals appear to like the landing sites because the snow is easier to stand on. The fact that they are often seen on the sites is evidence they are comfortable with helicopters in the area, say staff at Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing."
"One area they heli-skiers used to call Caribou Hideout is now called Caribou Chase."
Mr Editor and Mr Weigele..... Give your heads a shake!
What animal is gonna run to hide in the cover of that rotor wash and noise? I highly doubt that the animals in that picture are gonna stick around when that heli comes to pick up or drop off skiers, no matter what kinda realationship Mr Weigele and the caribou have.
I have been startled multiple times when the helis buzz over top of us, even over the sound of the sled and with a helmet on you can hear and feel the sound of the blades from a heli. A sled doesnt sneak up like the helis do. A sled isnt doing 100mph that pops over a ridge scaring the crap out of everthing in sight.
Heck sometimes i cant even hear a sled that is 50 ft away from me in the trees. With out the radio's i wouldnt even know there was a sled around me.
I have no issue's with needed closers to protect the wildlife and no isssues with heli skiing in general. But Mr Weigle, dont try and make us look bad in order to pad your pockets and keep everything for yourself!
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OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Wigs if I see your bird shut down on the trail I will hook my snow bungie to the tail rotor and wala youll be sending in another with spare parts engineer ect. Take your azz back to where you came from jackazz.
Problem with this is Wiegele doesn't own any helicopters, at one point he did, but for a number of years now all of the helicopters are a lease setup with VIH (Vancouver Island Helicopters) it is why they used to be Wiegele red, and now are VIH white yellow and green, with just a couple small stickers with the Wiegele logo.
Intrawest owns a half stake in CMH, but nothing in Weigele, as far as I know Weigele is still 100% privately owned.
However even if Weigele was owned by Intrawest, now that Fortress Investments (private equity fund) owns Intrawest, it would just fall on deaf ears.
I recieved an almost immediate response back from the editor, he has been trying to contact the BCSF and ABC Snow for a couple weeks, no responses back! WTF folks, he is giving us an open door opportunity.........are we gonna provide a formal rebuttal/response or just sit in silence with our heads in the sand?
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Shows to go ya we are seriously lacking representation. Thanks for checkin on it Modman sure makes a guy wonder whats going on. Still think it wouldn't hurt if wigs jaw was wired shut for 6 weeks though.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
If their running for him under lease any damages and extras are picked up by Wigs not the heli company.
jaredszakacs
Active VIP Member
so here it is guys club presidents and members this is our shot! modman and cuso wrote create emails to the editor we need more! but we need more from the guys who are club presidents and BRP and yammi reps Randy swenson I know is a great ambassador for yamaha and for the sport of snowmobiling maybe you know some guys that can voice an opinion on this.
Johnny
Active VIP Member
What a drag, I have heard the same sentiment from several sledder friends that used to get memberships to BCSF then ABC, theres no use in being a member of either group because of the zero support and representation in BC !! I hoped they were wrong but unless theres some correspondence with their membership in this regard and a
reply promptly especially from ABC, I sadly agree. Im tired of the blatant media sensationalism villifying all sledders. We need a well written response from either or both associations in situations like this so we dont continue to look like knobs. JMO modman for prez ?
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snopro
Active VIP Member
This just reinforces the fact that we as a snowmobiling group need to find/ hire a high profile rep to represent us publically for these type of issues. Looks to me 1 hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing in regards to associations communicating with each other.
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
Had that with the BCSF. Not enough money left now with a third of the membership gone to ABC.
Weigele's doing a pretty good job of turning our focus on him instead of where it should be though!
jaredszakacs
Active VIP Member
here is some more info that makes me mad! They just approved the go ahead for the jumbo glacier ski resort! so sleds do big enviromental damage but a multi million dollar ski resort in the middle of the jumbo valley wich is a significant area for wildlife and the enviroment does nothing!!!!! oh yeah thats right it lines there pockets so of course they are all for it!!! This is such bullch!t when they wanna ban sledding and then go ahead and put in ski resorts go FAWK YOURSELFS!!!! Absolute bull ch!t that the main groups we support in BC wont even voice there opinion! that is crap!
maxwell
Active VIP Member
which glacier resort are you reffering too?
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