-albertaboy-
Member
wow this looks like a cool build up!! kudos to you sir! cant wait till its done
Low Budget Back Up Sled Build Up
- Thread starter Modman
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
OK - last few weeks have been busy with work, vacation, etc. Finally was able to start putting some time back into the sled.
The bulkhead sat around for the last couple weeks, the focus was to disassemble the other sled and salvage the tunnel from it, along with the remaining parts. See Pic #1. This is all that remains of the other sled, I wanted to use the chaincase off this sled, which is why I waited to disassemble it, until after the other one was ready.
Chaincase, jackshaft and PTO side bearing mount were all mocked up and prepped for install. During this I noticed that there was a slight rub on the jackshaft where it goes through the bulkhead. Marked the area and will clearance it with the die grinder when I install the tunnel. This is why the mock up stage is so important. I wasn't sure if the brake rotor bolts were going to clear the bulkhead, but when installed and torqued up, there is about a 1/16" clearance on them, so should be good. I originally thought I might have to shim the case out to get the clearance, which is something you can do as well. I also had to drill some other holes for the chaincase mounts, since the chaincase mounts and designs were slightly different but the center to centers were the same. I also had to clearance for the oil drain plug at the bottom of the case, nothing the die grinder can't handle. Pic #2 is of the installed chaincase.
The jackshaft PTO side bearing required removal for the install, and since I thought I might have to shim the chaincase out, this would have required more distance between the bearings on the chaincase and the clutch sides. I wasn't entirely sure though so I marked the bearing location on the jackshaft before I took it off. Its a good idea to mark the bearing on the opposite side of the side you will remove it, this way you will not rub the mark off when you remove the bearing or if you later clean the shaft up with a little sandpaper (I used my trusty paint marker for this) See pic #3.
I also marked it on the inside as well, in the keyway groove. I scribed a line here using a metal scriber, this line will not get sanded off or rubbed of since it sits down in the groove, its pretty much a permanent mark (see inside the groove in pic #4 - sorry pic is not truly in focus). These marks are good reference points for when you re-install the bearings, since its important the bearings and shaft get centered and run true.
In amongst the other things, I have been cleaning up some of the brackets and polishing or re-painting parts here and there, pic #5 is of the suspension support brackets for the tunnel.
I will be cleaning up the tunnel tomorrow and will have more pics in a couple days, once it is ready to be installed. This will be a milestone in the project since once this is complete, parts can start going back onto the sled permanently, and I will be able to start reclaiming space in my garage.
The bulkhead sat around for the last couple weeks, the focus was to disassemble the other sled and salvage the tunnel from it, along with the remaining parts. See Pic #1. This is all that remains of the other sled, I wanted to use the chaincase off this sled, which is why I waited to disassemble it, until after the other one was ready.
Chaincase, jackshaft and PTO side bearing mount were all mocked up and prepped for install. During this I noticed that there was a slight rub on the jackshaft where it goes through the bulkhead. Marked the area and will clearance it with the die grinder when I install the tunnel. This is why the mock up stage is so important. I wasn't sure if the brake rotor bolts were going to clear the bulkhead, but when installed and torqued up, there is about a 1/16" clearance on them, so should be good. I originally thought I might have to shim the case out to get the clearance, which is something you can do as well. I also had to drill some other holes for the chaincase mounts, since the chaincase mounts and designs were slightly different but the center to centers were the same. I also had to clearance for the oil drain plug at the bottom of the case, nothing the die grinder can't handle. Pic #2 is of the installed chaincase.
The jackshaft PTO side bearing required removal for the install, and since I thought I might have to shim the chaincase out, this would have required more distance between the bearings on the chaincase and the clutch sides. I wasn't entirely sure though so I marked the bearing location on the jackshaft before I took it off. Its a good idea to mark the bearing on the opposite side of the side you will remove it, this way you will not rub the mark off when you remove the bearing or if you later clean the shaft up with a little sandpaper (I used my trusty paint marker for this) See pic #3.
I also marked it on the inside as well, in the keyway groove. I scribed a line here using a metal scriber, this line will not get sanded off or rubbed of since it sits down in the groove, its pretty much a permanent mark (see inside the groove in pic #4 - sorry pic is not truly in focus). These marks are good reference points for when you re-install the bearings, since its important the bearings and shaft get centered and run true.
In amongst the other things, I have been cleaning up some of the brackets and polishing or re-painting parts here and there, pic #5 is of the suspension support brackets for the tunnel.
I will be cleaning up the tunnel tomorrow and will have more pics in a couple days, once it is ready to be installed. This will be a milestone in the project since once this is complete, parts can start going back onto the sled permanently, and I will be able to start reclaiming space in my garage.
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j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
Progressing very nicely Modman. Any mods done to the motor? Higgins.
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks man - it never progresses as fast as you want though...
Some mild motor stuff - carbing, venting, reeds, pipes, power jets, etc...... no big stuff just yet
New pipes and carbs to go on with the new motor, should be close to 185-190 HP with current setup, that's enough for me. I might have the heads cut, we will see. I have two of the same motor so I might keep one mild and make the other one wild....
I would like to overbore it 4 mm, right now I just want to get it back together so it runs, then I will play with the motor this winter maybe. With the setback on the skid last year, and with the drop and roll this year, it if hooks up as good as it did last year, a lot more power is not really needed. Once it lifts the skis, the chassis just twists itself left, hopefully the bulkhead bracing will cure that a little bit.Big triples are really fun to ride.
j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
I like your way of thinking Modman! There's nothing wrong with re-inventing something you love. Especially if you can do it as a budget buildup. Thats quite the drop & roll, and with a suspension setback like you're doing it will make for a real aggressive attack angle. I did something similar a couple seasons back using a Polaris triple but it never really ran to my expectations so not being a smart guy i went out and bought a bigger Rotax triple. Maybe this will make me feel better, i don't know!! Ha, Ha, Ha, i just love doing it. Higgins.
sledderdoc
Super Senior Member
Nothing better than muckin in the shop!!! ............. well maybe ridin it after!! Looks good Modman!! 
:d
:d- Thread starter
- #27
Right on!!
I figured in this time of "fiscal restraint" and economic hardship, it was appropriate to show people that they can still build a capable sled and enjoy the sport, but that a lot of $$$ is not required, just a little elbow grease. Also wanted to show a couple little tricks, tools, etc that can be used for projects like this. For me, its all about the enjoyment of the sport, I'd rather see someone riding around on an 1982 Citation than not riding at all.
You've got the white Ultra 800 right?
j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
Yes thats right! Very light chassis and works really well in the hills. Hopefully it will work even better with the new power. My good buddy has a 2000 Thundercat that he has stretched to 159 and it's a ferocious piece in the right hands. Having 172hp plus some add ons like you said takes you to 190-200hp and thats fun power to play with. If you get your chassis setup right i'm sure it will be a contender in the deep! Higgins.
- Thread starter
- #29
OK - got the tunnel cleaned up and installed - found out the rivets that I thought I had, were used up so will have to get some other ones in the next day or so. Make sure you use the right length of rivets, no point in using longer ones, just a waste, and shorter ones may not give you the right grab. Once again, steel shank all the way, don't mess around with the cheapo Canadian Tire ones with the aluminum shank. Structural places where shear strengths are high (like bulkhead to tunnel) you do not want to cheap out on rivets. Get steel shank ones at a bare minimum, and get larger ones if you can.
The tunnel install went pretty well, I had to clearance the footwell fairly substantially for the chaincase and drill a couple new holes since the chaincase I used was different than what came on the sled. Usually a drop and roll will mean some clearancing on other parts, so be ready with the disc grinder. See first pic. For comparison reasons, the chaincase gear alignment prior to the drop and roll was perfectly vertical, so the photo give you an idea of how far back it moved.
The chaincase is loosely bolted in and waiting for the proper rivets (so I'll have to take it off to get behind it), jackshaft holes were marked and drilled, and all parts were aligned prior to riveting. See pic #2. This is usually an important step - make sure that everything lines up BEFORE you start riveting. Nothing more aggravating than having to drill out freshly installed rivets....
I use clamps and hold all the pieces together to get good tight joints between the pieces when riveting as well. I also use other rivets as Cleco's (if you don't know what a Cleco is, click here ) so that the alignment of all the rivet holes is kept, while I begin riveting. All of my rivet holes have to be drilled out since the original rivets were slightly smaller than what I'm using, and the powder coating has added some coating to the inside of the holes that needs to cleaned out.
I have attached a photo of a grinder bit (See pic #3) that I use religiously in the garage on aluminum. For anyone grinding or die grinding aluminum - you have got to get one of these. Its called a rotary file, and honestly, they are the best invention for clearancing, grinding, shaping, shaving, etc on aluminum. This thing cuts through a tunnel like butter, they are fairly cheap ($6) and are a life saver if you need to shave down an area. What once took me 30 mins by hand with a file in areas where you can't get a disc grinder, now takes about 30 secs with the die grinder, seriously. They are made for non-ferrous (not steel) metals (so aluminum) and it is really amazing how well they work. You can get them in various shapes and sizes as well.
More to come in a couple days.
The tunnel install went pretty well, I had to clearance the footwell fairly substantially for the chaincase and drill a couple new holes since the chaincase I used was different than what came on the sled. Usually a drop and roll will mean some clearancing on other parts, so be ready with the disc grinder. See first pic. For comparison reasons, the chaincase gear alignment prior to the drop and roll was perfectly vertical, so the photo give you an idea of how far back it moved.
The chaincase is loosely bolted in and waiting for the proper rivets (so I'll have to take it off to get behind it), jackshaft holes were marked and drilled, and all parts were aligned prior to riveting. See pic #2. This is usually an important step - make sure that everything lines up BEFORE you start riveting. Nothing more aggravating than having to drill out freshly installed rivets....
I use clamps and hold all the pieces together to get good tight joints between the pieces when riveting as well. I also use other rivets as Cleco's (if you don't know what a Cleco is, click here ) so that the alignment of all the rivet holes is kept, while I begin riveting. All of my rivet holes have to be drilled out since the original rivets were slightly smaller than what I'm using, and the powder coating has added some coating to the inside of the holes that needs to cleaned out.
I have attached a photo of a grinder bit (See pic #3) that I use religiously in the garage on aluminum. For anyone grinding or die grinding aluminum - you have got to get one of these. Its called a rotary file, and honestly, they are the best invention for clearancing, grinding, shaping, shaving, etc on aluminum. This thing cuts through a tunnel like butter, they are fairly cheap ($6) and are a life saver if you need to shave down an area. What once took me 30 mins by hand with a file in areas where you can't get a disc grinder, now takes about 30 secs with the die grinder, seriously. They are made for non-ferrous (not steel) metals (so aluminum) and it is really amazing how well they work. You can get them in various shapes and sizes as well.
More to come in a couple days.
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- Thread starter
- #30
update.... Oct 18. Got drop and roll finally finished on new (old) tunnel and got coolers installed. Had to do some substantial clearancing on the footwells to make it all fit, I will have to make up some screens to keep the water/snow off the secondary clutch.
Steering hoop was mounted to fit gas tank and seat to ensure placement of the new coolers. As stated, I wasn't able to mount them back as far as I would have liked, but they'll still be far better than the old setup. Old cooler setup (first pic) was one little one on bulkhead and one smaller one at the back of the tunnel with coolant lines that mounted on top of the tunnel (very ugly).
The new coolers should keep things a lot cooler (see 2nd pic). This weekend the suspension and track were installed (Got Clearance??? - see pic #3) and I tensioned the track tonight, everything turns around in circles very nicely. Going to get some bigger rear wheels for it to help suck up some of the added track slack (displaced from the drop and roll). I have some riveting left to do as well on the coolers, I never install all the rivets until the parts that affect that area have been installed as well, just in case I have to drill them back out if something doesn't fit or needs to be moved. Yes I learned that lesson the hard way years ago.
This week I will flip it back over and re-install the front susp, then I'm going to trim the steering stops on the steering shaft, to see if I can't get a little more turning radius out of it. This is the cheap, and relatively effective, way to get a few more degrees out of the turning radius on your sled, however you need to be careful that you don't remove too much and hyper-extend the steering joints or cause binding in the system. This is one of those cases where removing a little bit at a time is better than removing too much all at once.
I'm also going to sleeve this steering post to increase its strength, since I have an 8" riser on it and I'm not a terribly small person, it gets a lot of force exerted on it, more on that later.
Fourth pic is how the sled currently sits, easier to work on the underside when its higher, and easier on the back and knees. The only time your sled should look like this is in the garage, not on the hill.
Steering hoop was mounted to fit gas tank and seat to ensure placement of the new coolers. As stated, I wasn't able to mount them back as far as I would have liked, but they'll still be far better than the old setup. Old cooler setup (first pic) was one little one on bulkhead and one smaller one at the back of the tunnel with coolant lines that mounted on top of the tunnel (very ugly).
The new coolers should keep things a lot cooler (see 2nd pic). This weekend the suspension and track were installed (Got Clearance???
- see pic #3) and I tensioned the track tonight, everything turns around in circles very nicely. Going to get some bigger rear wheels for it to help suck up some of the added track slack (displaced from the drop and roll). I have some riveting left to do as well on the coolers, I never install all the rivets until the parts that affect that area have been installed as well, just in case I have to drill them back out if something doesn't fit or needs to be moved. Yes I learned that lesson the hard way years ago.This week I will flip it back over and re-install the front susp, then I'm going to trim the steering stops on the steering shaft, to see if I can't get a little more turning radius out of it. This is the cheap, and relatively effective, way to get a few more degrees out of the turning radius on your sled, however you need to be careful that you don't remove too much and hyper-extend the steering joints or cause binding in the system. This is one of those cases where removing a little bit at a time is better than removing too much all at once.
I'm also going to sleeve this steering post to increase its strength, since I have an 8" riser on it and I'm not a terribly small person, it gets a lot of force exerted on it, more on that later.
Fourth pic is how the sled currently sits, easier to work on the underside when its higher, and easier on the back and knees. The only time your sled should look like this is in the garage, not on the hill.
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maxwell
Active VIP Member
what about epoxy filling the steering post?
tundra twin track
Active VIP Member
Great Project,have you considered using the chain tighter from the sno pro race sleds it is oval shaped slider that works very well and is manual ajusted.I think they were used 03 and newer.
- Thread starter
- #33
Totally an option. But in the effort of keeping things on the economical level (and me being reallllly lucky that the steering shaft is straight) I should be able to sleeve the whole shaft with a piece of steel (maybe 1/8" wall?) for under $5. Not sure on the going rate of epoxy, probably could do it for under $20 but steel is way less messy to work with and I do not know of a place that does epoxy commercially where I could take the shaft. If this shaft had a bend like the ski doo's, then epoxy would probably be a better option for sure.
- Thread starter
- #34
No, I did not consider the newer chain tensioner, good suggestion though. Not sure if it would work on this chaincase, the one there is two rollers and a manual tensioner as well. In the effort of not replacing un-damaged parts to keep costs down, I was going to re-use the original setup. I will look into the newer design though as well.
Thanks!!
hashbrowns
Active member
looks like it would be a blast to ride when its all done.. great work keep the pictures commin
dezmitchell
Active VIP Member
Good job modman ....i LOVE seeing a project come together and i have been particularly curious about this one.
Keep up great work and remember there can never be TO many pics :d
Keep up great work and remember there can never be TO many pics :d
- Thread starter
- #37
Ok going to do separate posts so that I can match up the pics with the text and hopefully keep my ramblings a little shorter so they aren't so boring - summary for the last week - new tunnel extension and flap mount was installed. I cut this extension out of an old tunnel I had sitting around. Marked it with a guide and then clamped a straight edge on and cut the extension out with a circular saw.
Coolers are finished. Next step was getting the front end back together and off the saw horses. I also did a lot of little things in the meantime that you really can't see, just things like putting the rest of the rivets in and putting the remaining bolts in as well.
Coolers are finished. Next step was getting the front end back together and off the saw horses. I also did a lot of little things in the meantime that you really can't see, just things like putting the rest of the rivets in and putting the remaining bolts in as well.
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- Thread starter
- #38
Late last week and on the weekend I got the front end together, tank on and seat mounts made, and rear suspension in. Sorry no pic of the seat on because I had to take it and the tank right back off to finish mount the steering hoop for the steering angle increase.
I got a smoking deal on a take off M8 seat, it was made into a highrise seat with lightweight foam and re-covered, I picked it up for under $200 bucks. I had to store it for 8 months until I got around to this part of the build, but it shows that if you look around and find a good deal on stuff, you can do these kinds of projects for cheap. I wasn't able to make it fit as tight to the tank as I wanted but I'll live with it since it is wayyyy higher and nicer than the stock seat and will make the transition from sitting to standing a lot easier. Starting out the weekend, I had a fully assembled chassis (minus the seat and steering).
While I had the steering out, before I stuck it back in, I polished the pieces on my bench grinder with a polishing wheel. Came out not too bad, pics don't really show the shine though.
I got a smoking deal on a take off M8 seat, it was made into a highrise seat with lightweight foam and re-covered, I picked it up for under $200 bucks. I had to store it for 8 months until I got around to this part of the build, but it shows that if you look around and find a good deal on stuff, you can do these kinds of projects for cheap. I wasn't able to make it fit as tight to the tank as I wanted but I'll live with it since it is wayyyy higher and nicer than the stock seat and will make the transition from sitting to standing a lot easier. Starting out the weekend, I had a fully assembled chassis (minus the seat and steering).
While I had the steering out, before I stuck it back in, I polished the pieces on my bench grinder with a polishing wheel. Came out not too bad, pics don't really show the shine though.
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dooryder
XP V.I.P. Member
looking good modman, once i finish school and start my apprentis for HD mechanics, i want to build a sled right from scratch and you have giving me alot of ideas, thank you for this build and information
- Thread starter
- #40
Sunday and Monday night tally was to install the steering and try and get a little more radius out of it. The reason for this was mainly because I like to have as much radius as possible, you can never turn tight enough when mountain riding IMO. Having the sled apart was a huge benefit to seeing clearances and binding/hitting spots as I was simply able to just stick my head underneath and look. First pic is fully installed with the lightweight steering setup and skis squared off. I basically started off looking at where the system was binding and then grinding those areas until they cleared and then moving along to the next spot that was binding or hitting.
Second pic is the first area that I found that was limiting movement. The pivot arm was hitting the nut on the back of the bolt, and so I ground out this area on both left and right sides of the sled so that there was adequate clearance (about 1/16" from the nut when fully turned). Look for the area above the steering shaft ball end in the picture (I painted them black before I took the pic but you can still see the semi-circle that I ground out). I then found the next area that was binding (pivot arm on the bottom of the steering post was hitting the bulkhead - see third pic). The rotary file on the die grinder helped remove enough material here (pic was not focused on lower area, look at the bulkhead area below the steering shaft mount in the picture).
Finally the last area that was hitting (before going back and removing more material from the pivot arm at the ski) was the steering stops on the steering shaft (see pointing finger in fourth pic). I ground a little bit off these (1/8" - about the width of a cut off wheel) but left enough that they still hit just before the pivot arm hits the nuts. I could have taken more off the pivot arms and more off the bulkhead at the lower steering shaft, but I didn't want to take too much all at once. The steering stops are stopping it just before it hits, so I'll have to start taking more off the pivot arms and bulkhead to achieve more radius. There is a noticeable improvement in the steering angle at full turn already, and I'm going to proceed cautiously so that I don't remove too much material. I'll ride it like this for a little while and then see if I want to take more off.
I will be sleeving the steering post this weekend and will update this thread again.
Second pic is the first area that I found that was limiting movement. The pivot arm was hitting the nut on the back of the bolt, and so I ground out this area on both left and right sides of the sled so that there was adequate clearance (about 1/16" from the nut when fully turned). Look for the area above the steering shaft ball end in the picture (I painted them black before I took the pic but you can still see the semi-circle that I ground out). I then found the next area that was binding (pivot arm on the bottom of the steering post was hitting the bulkhead - see third pic). The rotary file on the die grinder helped remove enough material here (pic was not focused on lower area, look at the bulkhead area below the steering shaft mount in the picture).
Finally the last area that was hitting (before going back and removing more material from the pivot arm at the ski) was the steering stops on the steering shaft (see pointing finger in fourth pic). I ground a little bit off these (1/8" - about the width of a cut off wheel) but left enough that they still hit just before the pivot arm hits the nuts. I could have taken more off the pivot arms and more off the bulkhead at the lower steering shaft, but I didn't want to take too much all at once. The steering stops are stopping it just before it hits, so I'll have to start taking more off the pivot arms and bulkhead to achieve more radius. There is a noticeable improvement in the steering angle at full turn already, and I'm going to proceed cautiously so that I don't remove too much material. I'll ride it like this for a little while and then see if I want to take more off.
I will be sleeving the steering post this weekend and will update this thread again.
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