Last seven years have been the hottest since mankind began

[Cdnfireman]

So why did you refer to grid scale batteries when my post clearly didn't?

Renewables don't necessarily operate at 20% capacity factor, BC gets almost 95% of it's electricity from hydro, pretty sure their lights don't go out on a regular basis, but maybe we need to create a poll asking the BC members to confirm this? There are currently wind farms in Scotland achieving in excess of 60% capacity factor.

What promises has the renewable energy industry made that it couldn't keep? CAISO, California's grid operator has various papers written on the reliability of solar and wind energy, and has reasonable forecasting for energy generation of both. The "duck curve" is a very well known phenomenon. CAISO openly acknowledges the role it's baseload nuclear plants and peaking natural gas plant play in ensuring grid stability, and is promoting and asking for grid scale storage in either the form of pumped hydro or battery technology. The first jurisdiction to implement sweeping changes will always find issues, and will also get to find solutions to them. One of the most critical of these is Rule 21 for implementation of smart solar inverters to help with grid stability.

There is no renewable conspiracy, the facts are available to the public, and easily accessible for those that choose to look for them. Deriving accurate information from political promises is foolhardy at best, not sure why that's any different for renewable energy. Governments throwing money at problems to appease voters is much different than corporations developing resources for profit, the cost of renewables is rapidly decreasing, the era of requiring subsidies and handouts to build this infrastructure is coming to a close.

I agree, there’s no conspiracy regarding renewable energy. It’s been proven repeatedly that without subsidies, they fail. Hydro power isn’t a renewable, it’s what they call “ green” energy ( ignoring of course the thousands of tons of diesel fuel burned to build a dam). And the wind generators in Scotland are doing better than most for sure, but look up what renewal obligation certificates cost the Scottish economy to subsidize the renewable operators. Like everywhere else, the renewable industry sucks up huge amounts of money in order to be viable. Nowhere is the era of handouts ending or even getting close. California asking for battery backup or pumped hydro storage just adds huge costs to an already economically unviable system. Who’s gonna pay for that? The already massively underwater renewable industry? Won’t happen unless they hook the taxpayers again, just like they are for the decommissioning costs of the first generations of wind turbines that the operators walked away from. Renewable energy might make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but when the economics are viewed objectively in the same manner you would any other business, it’s a dog.

 

[ABMax24]

I agree, there’s no conspiracy regarding renewable energy. It’s been proven repeatedly that without subsidies, they fail. Hydro power isn’t a renewable, it’s what they call “ green” energy ( ignoring of course the thousands of tons of diesel fuel burned to build a dam). And the wind generators in Scotland are doing better than most for sure, but look up what renewal obligation certificates cost the Scottish economy to subsidize the renewable operators. Like everywhere else, the renewable industry sucks up huge amounts of money in order to be viable. Nowhere is the era of handouts ending or even getting close. California asking for battery backup or pumped hydro storage just adds huge costs to an already economically unviable system. Who’s gonna pay for that? The already massively underwater renewable industry? Won’t happen unless they hook the taxpayers again, just like they are for the decommissioning costs of the first generations of wind turbines that the operators walked away from. Renewable energy might make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but when the economics are viewed objectively in the same manner you would any other business, it’s a dog.

Hydro-power is renewable as long as rain and snow continue to fall on the watersheds that feed them. Renewable: a source of energy that is not depleted by use, such as water, wind, or solar power.

Alberta currently has 5 solar farms and 2 grid scale batteries in operation that were built without tax payer dollars. Only 1 of Alberta's solar farms were built with tax payer dollars, and that was Brook Solar in 2017. Amazing the difference a few years makes.

The economics are there, wind and solar farms will continue to be built here in Alberta, and at a growing rate, whether the population supports them or not.

 

[Pedaling pete]

I just drove by a wind farm the other day by coronation. And not 1 mill out of 100s were turning. It was windy too.

Big ole ugly towers scattered across the country side. Wtf

 

[Pedaling pete]

Hydro-power is renewable as long as rain .[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]

, wind and solar farms will continue to be built here in Alberta, and at a growing rate, whether the population supports them or not.

That I can believe...

 

[Lunch_Box]

Hydro is the only renewable energy that makes sense, yes it uses a lot of non green products to get the project done, yes you lose a vast amount of land, but at least it is a steady reliable form or energy. Wind and solar can't even be compared, and if it wasn't for government subsidies they wouldn't be growing at the rate they are.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Hydro-power is renewable as long as rain and snow continue to fall on the watersheds that feed them. Renewable: a source of energy that is not depleted by use, such as water, wind, or solar power.

Alberta currently has 5 solar farms and 2 grid scale batteries in operation that were built without tax payer dollars. Only 1 of Alberta's solar farms were built with tax payer dollars, and that was Brook Solar in 2017. Amazing the difference a few years makes.

The economics are there, wind and solar farms will continue to be built here in Alberta, and at a growing rate, whether the population supports them or not.

and whether they work or not....and the solar farms were all given government land to build on, tax holidays and other subsidies to support them..... don't worry, at their 20% utilization rate, they will fail in a few years, walk away from them and the taxpayer will be stuck with cleaning up the mess.....what business model ever survives having revenue uncertain day by day? None....
And using your logic, a fossil fuelled power plant is also renewable..... the ancient carbon mass is still decaying, new oil and gas is being found all the time so we are constantly replenishing our supply..... hence renewable....

 

[ABMax24]

and whether they work or not....and the solar farms were all given government land to build on, tax holidays and other subsidies to support them..... don't worry, at their 20% utilization rate, they will fail in a few years, walk away from them and the taxpayer will be stuck with cleaning up the mess.....what business model ever survives having revenue uncertain day by day? None....
And using your logic, a fossil fuelled power plant is also renewable..... the ancient carbon mass is still decaying, new oil and gas is being found all the time so we are constantly replenishing our supply..... hence renewable....

Nice try. All solar farms in Alberta are built on private land.

Since you brought up subsidies should we talk about the 3 year property tax break Kenney just gave oil companies on the backs of Alberta taxpayers?

Fossil fuels are not renewable, they do not regenerate continually, or even within a human lifetime.

 

[lilduke]

And what have the oil companies ever done for Alberta besides giving everyone jobs and making us the most prosperous place in the country? Haha

Those days are over I guess....

 

[Cdnfireman]

Nice try. All solar farms in Alberta are built on private land.

Since you brought up subsidies should we talk about the 3 year property tax break Kenney just gave oil companies on the backs of Alberta taxpayers?

Fossil fuels are not renewable, they do not regenerate continually, or even within a human lifetime.

Regardless, renewable energy systems have never been economically viable anywhere in the world, and assuming you’re correct that the costs for PV cells is dropping, it only makes them less uneconomical. The costs to build wind farms is going up and they’re becoming less and less acceptable from an environmental standpoint as well as the looming issue of disposal of their worn out components. As the lithium ion batteries reach the end of their life cycles, they will become a huge toxic waste issue as there is no technology to recycle them.
Renewables may make you moist, but they’re an economic, reliability and soon to be environmental train wreck.

 

[Summitric]

I still believe small nuclear plants like china, germany, britain, france etc are all getting into, is the way to go. Responsible management and recycling is the key. The small can-do(canadian) reactors have been proven. Cold fusion is still under scrutiny and how to make it work. Using water for the hydrogen and oxygen is also in the works, and there's already an italian supercar that runs on water, breaking it down to use the hydrogen/oxygen for fuel....

 

[X-it]

Why build nuclear plants when you can install Suzuki solar panels that do not work and has 300 times more toxic waste in the end.

 

[ABMax24]

And what have the oil companies ever done for Alberta besides giving everyone jobs and making us the most prosperous place in the country? Haha

Those days are over I guess....

It's not an either or decision though, why can't we do both? I don't know about you but I'm sick of the one trick pony that is the Alberta economy, diversification seems like a much better, and more stable way to go.

It just seems pretty disingenuous to slander an industry for subsidies, when the existing industry it is competing with has, and continues to receive, subsidies/tax breaks.

To exemplify this lithium carbonate has been found in the produced water of oil and gas wells in Alberta, if economically viable would it not make sense to extract this lithium as another revenue source?

I just really get sick of the hypocrisy of those that whine that O&G is restricted by lies and half-truths by the people/media that don't understand facts, and then those same individuals turn around and fabricate/spew incorrect information about an industry they don't like and choose not to understand.

 

[lilduke]

It's not an either or decision though, why can't we do both? I don't know about you but I'm sick of the one trick pony that is the Alberta economy, diversification seems like a much better, and more stable way to go.

It just seems pretty disingenuous to slander an industry for subsidies, when the existing industry it is competing with has, and continues to receive, subsidies/tax breaks.

To exemplify this lithium carbonate has been found in the produced water of oil and gas wells in Alberta, if economically viable would it not make sense to extract this lithium as another revenue source?

I just really get sick of the hypocrisy of those that whine that O&G is restricted by lies and half-truths by the people/media that don't understand facts, and then those same individuals turn around and fabricate/spew incorrect information about an industry they don't like and choose not to understand.

I dont really know a ton about the Solar/Wind industry. But I wouldnt mind going off the grid personally because I dont like paying the power companies or the government in tax for power. And I dont want to rely on it either.
And If solar panels make sense on a commercial scale in Alberta, then that's great doesn't bother me at all.


Just saying the Oil companies deserves a tax break now again. They are probably the biggest tax payer in Canada.
Does the green industry even compare? Not to me, but I don't make the tax codes or subsidies programs any ways


natural resources are the source of our wealth, simple as that. We arent going to turn into silicone valley. So no oil production, no lumber, no mines, no cows ext means no money in Canada.

If lithium extraction could become big in Alberta, that would be great. Bring it on. But lets not kill every other industry we have though.


To summarize, I don't hate solar panels, but the oil industry has put more food on my table and I like burning gas haha

 

[Lunch_Box]

I would love to go off grid, but unless you can go completely off grid there isn't a point. If you need to be tied into the gas or electrical grid any then might as well take full advantage. You pay more for your monthly admin fees then the product used. I looked into geothermal when I built my current house but our area it just isn't viable and didn't make sense financially.

 

[lilduke]

I would love to go off grid, but unless you can go completely off grid there isn't a point. If you need to be tied into the gas or electrical grid any then might as well take full advantage. You pay more for your monthly admin fees then the product used. I looked into geothermal when I built my current house but our area it just isn't viable and didn't make sense financially.

Id go propane and solar and a back up generator. For a house in Central Alberta probably doesn't make sense.

Places in BC with no power near by it starts making more sense.

 

[Cdnfireman]

It's not an either or decision though, why can't we do both? I don't know about you but I'm sick of the one trick pony that is the Alberta economy, diversification seems like a much better, and more stable way to go.

It just seems pretty disingenuous to slander an industry for subsidies, when the existing industry it is competing with has, and continues to receive, subsidies/tax breaks.

To exemplify this lithium carbonate has been found in the produced water of oil and gas wells in Alberta, if economically viable would it not make sense to extract this lithium as another revenue source?

I just really get sick of the hypocrisy of those that whine that O&G is restricted by lies and half-truths by the people/media that don't understand facts, and then those same individuals turn around and fabricate/spew incorrect information about an industry they don't like and choose not to understand.

oil companies never get direct financial subsidies like the renewable energy industry does. They get tax deferrals and enhanced write-downs, but you’ve never seen where a user fee was put on a gallon of gas to be paid directly like you see the direct subsidies given to the green industries. The minute a gas or oil well starts to produce it generates royalties paid to the government, and 70+ years of history has proven that the oil industry is financially viable and consistently produces value added products to the economy. In the 30 year history of the renewable energy industry, it has NEVER been able to show commercial viability anywhere in the world without direct massive government financial support. How long do we keep feeding tax dollars into an industry that can’t support itself? If the lithium carbonate extraction isn’t financially viable do we fund it forever too?

 

[ABMax24]

oil companies never get direct financial subsidies like the renewable energy industry does. They get tax deferrals and enhanced write-downs, but you’ve never seen where a user fee was put on a gallon of gas to be paid directly like you see the direct subsidies given to the green industries. The minute a gas or oil well starts to produce it generates royalties paid to the government, and 70+ years of history has proven that the oil industry is financially viable and consistently produces value added products to the economy. In the 30 year history of the renewable energy industry, it has NEVER been able to show commercial viability anywhere in the world without direct massive government financial support. How long do we keep feeding tax dollars into an industry that can’t support itself? If the lithium carbonate extraction isn’t financially viable do we fund it forever too?

I'm glad you quoted that post of mine, please read the last line over, and over, and over again.

Have a nice day.

 

[Cdnfireman]

I'm glad you quoted that post of mine, please read the last line over, and over, and over again.

Have a nice day.

I understand it perfectly. It’s a failed industry supported by progressive social justice do Gooders that are too vacuous and stupid to realize how finances work and find it acceptable to waste taxpayer money on something that never has been or will be viable. Have a nice day.

 

[Mike270412]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/...THleAe3aRg9aGzSZgHaVTvfibNeAR8nrfmoOKq2p9QFZE

Fawkin CBC. Burning less fossil fuels has cooled the planet while warming it.

 

[niner]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/...THleAe3aRg9aGzSZgHaVTvfibNeAR8nrfmoOKq2p9QFZE

Fawkin CBC. Burning less fossil fuels has cooled the planet while warming it.

I can’t believe I read that whole article. O.03% warmer this year that’s almost the same as the death rate for Covid...