is it time for us to police ourselves?

[knee deep in it]

I wont ride with people who don't have a beacon, probe and shovel.

Is it time for us to say - if you want to ride with us, take an avy course?

One thing that is becoming clear is that mistakes have been made. Is it fair to place the onus on recognizing dangerous terrain on one or two people? Wouldn't it be better if all 4 or 5 in your group have avy training and are able to look for signs of danger? Is it unfair to expect the guys you ride with should know how to use their beacons in case you get caught in a slide? Is it unfair to expect them to know how to assemble and use their probe?

The Calgary Snowmobile club used to subsidize the courses so it is pretty cheap. If you can afford to ride, you can afford to take a class.

 

[Maclintock]

I wont ride with people who don't have a beacon, probe and shovel.

Is it time for us to say - if you want to ride with us, take an avy course?

One thing that is becoming clear is that mistakes have been made. Is it fair to place the onus on recognizing dangerous terrain on one or two people? Wouldn't it be better if all 4 or 5 in your group have avy training and are able to look for signs of danger? Is it unfair to expect the guys you ride with should know how to use their beacons in case you get caught in a slide? Is it unfair to expect them to know how to assemble and use their probe?

The Calgary Snowmobile club used to subsidize the courses so it is pretty cheap. If you can afford to ride, you can afford to take a class.

I honestly know some guys who have the course and still do not have a clue.
As for beacon use, I will not ride with anyone who does not know how to use one. I ride with pretty much the same 2-3 guys all the time. They are all trained in Avy smarts. We always make sure anyone else that comes with us has the following items; Beacon, Shovel, Probe, radio and water.
We also do a little test before we go to make sure they know how to work a beacon, and to make sure all the beacons are working. Every Time.
This takes 5 minutes and is a very good thing to do. ALWAYS!!!!

 

[imdoo'n]

just can't understand some peoples thought process. if someone is having difficulty with the gear, why would you not show them how. give the guy the benefit, maybe there is something you can help with, it is better to teach than to have to dig him out. what have you to lose, everyone has to start somewhere.
a good learning lesson for those that show up without proper equipment is to exchange them shovel etc. they usually get the message.

 

[Modman]

I wont ride with people who don't have a beacon, probe and shovel and THE RIGHT ATTITUDE.

The gear won't help you as much as the proper mindset will. Seen lots of guys with gear think they are invincible because they had a beacon and avy bag. Sorry but, been riding for years, years back we rode with lots of guys that never needed the gear because they used their head instead. Gear is your last line of defence, your brain is your first. Gear is there to help someone find your body or to help you find someone else's, nothing more - do not rely on it to save your life.

 

[moyiesledhead]

It's too late for us to police ourselves. We had our chance and failed. Now someone else is gonna do it for us.

 

[Rescue Pilot]

Never too Late.

The Government probably has no idea how to police this issue, they feel that they have to do something...with all the public pressure and Press recently.

I've been flying since the late 70's, and I've seen a lot of bad years with Heliskiers and Avalanches, plus remember many bad years with River Rafting.

Both of those groups/industries have worked hard to clean up their act. Some was voluntary, some was regulated. Both groups have done very well in terms of improved safety.

There's no reason that the Snowmobile industry can't do the same. There are a lot of very good people posting here. The Sled community is full of very smart, successful, well organized, safety minded, and concered people.

The Sled industry is a huge contributor to small town BC, and must stay.

The best method of change is though your own collective choice, and from within your own group.

I can see it starting already.

 

[moyiesledhead]

I honestly hope you're right, but many years of negotiating on behalf of sledders that ended up not caring has shown me otherwise.

Please people....prove me wrong!

 

[powder junkie]

I wont ride with people who don't have a beacon, probe and shovel.

Is it time for us to say - if you want to ride with us, take an avy course?

One thing that is becoming clear is that mistakes have been made. Is it fair to place the onus on recognizing dangerous terrain on one or two people? Wouldn't it be better if all 4 or 5 in your group have avy training and are able to look for signs of danger? Is it unfair to expect the guys you ride with should know how to use their beacons in case you get caught in a slide? Is it unfair to expect them to know how to assemble and use their probe?

The Calgary Snowmobile club used to subsidize the courses so it is pretty cheap. If you can afford to ride, you can afford to take a class.

i hate when ppl say "if u can afford to ride then u can afford this and that" where do u draw the line? how about the guy that has a 97 rmk and rides the hills once a year just to boondock? does he need a avy course every year? for alota ppl the cost cant be justified. i admit beacons and shovels and probes are a MUST. but everyone takn a avy course wont fix the problems. it would help but it comes down to the person or persons. theres prolly a million things u can buy or take or do to prepare to go to the mountains, but we cant do them all. i for one am looking to take a course next fall but for alot its tough.

 

[btcowboy]

I agree we need to police ourselves. I hate to admit that I do not have the avy training. I went to take it last fall and found out that it was put on where I live but a week before I looked for it. I ride with guys that have the experience but not the course.

Before I get slammed here, I am very aware of our suroundings as are those in my group and we do heed the warnings and do ride what is safe and keep off what is not safe. I have spent hours and hours reading everything I can on avalanche awarness and safety. I read the avy bullitens daily, even though we arent heading out. I do this to learn about the conditions and the weather and to try and educate myslef that way. My group and myself fully intend on get the training before next season and to practice searches at the beginning of every ride until we are 100% efficient on searches.

These tragedies do affect our chances of losing our areas to ride in. I for one do not one to lose the priveledge of sleddign in the backcountry but we do need to educate ourselves and furthermore practice what we learn and quit taking the chances

 

[DRD]

It's mindset, not an avy course that keeps you safe. The bulletin spells out what you can generally expect. I've taken the course but I'm not going to bet my life on whether or not I can judge the safety of a slope after 16 or so hours of instruction. Reason #127 I ride like a girl and stay in the meadows.

 

[GasCan]

I need to slow down and read at normal speed sometimes. I almost thought i'd read;

Reason #127 I like to ride a girl and stay in the meadows.

 

[polarice]

I need to slow down and read at normal speed sometimes. I almost thought i'd read;

and even that can get you in trouble

 

[Mongrol]

How much training and what smarts do you need to possess to read and understand
"AVALANCHE HAZARD IS CONSIDERABLE/EXTREME IN THE DESIGNATED AREAS".???

 

[BIGFOOT]

The gear won't help you as much as the proper mindset will. Seen lots of guys with gear think they are invincible because they had a beacon and avy bag. Sorry but, been riding for years, years back we rode with lots of guys that never needed the gear because they used their head instead. Gear is your last line of defence, your brain is your first. Gear is there to help someone find your body or to help you find someone else's, nothing more - do not rely on it to save your life.

...Good point ! One needs a Awareness Attitdule..... then training. Wonder... The amount of peeps with avalanche training that were sitting at the btm of turbo....

 

[snoqueen]

Reason #127 I ride like a girl and stay in the meadows.

Are you saying girls can't ride??? I hope I didn't read that one correctly!! lol

 

[flying frenchman]

This is for poeple who say can't afford it to take avy course or don't have the time. Poeple spend money on alcohol, cigarettes,drugs,sleds, quads, cars, trucks, you names it . If you like this sport of snowmobiling them save up for a course . There lots you can read online, may not be as great as a avy course as its great to hear other opinions from others and their views.
You think 16 hrs is long I'll bet time is even longer when your under the snow. HAVE A BUDDY BURY YOU UNDER THE SNOW TO SEE HOW FUN IT FEELS . KIND OF A HEARTH PUMPING EXPERIENCE.
If you love your sport then it's time to take a good look at it. Hey ! I also sled the mountains once a year, but finally decided to take a good look to see if it's an investment to take the course and I said yes ,because I know next time I'll have fun again.

 

[Can-Do]

police ourselves?..LOL never going to happen. as long as everyone has different ideas about what training one should have or not have cause they figure there are better ways to go about being safe.

i for one hope the GOV steps in and mandates certain criteria to be in the backcountry. then i wouldnt have to listen to all the whining about costs VS safety or what have you.

this topic has been going on for years and sledders themselves cant even agree what needs to be done. damn soon someone WILL tell you how its going to be and thats all there is to it. abide by the new regulations or dont ride, its going to be rather simple once a governing body steps in.

its too bad it has to come to that. perhaps its for the best in the long run

 

[pipeliner72]

training is excellent but if you don,t have buy in to the safety culture it isn,t worth anything lets not focus so much on training and a little more on doing what we alredy know!
Just saying!

 

[moyiesledhead]

training is excellent but if you don,t have buy in to the safety culture it isn,t worth anything lets not focus so much on training and a little more on doing what we alredy know!
Just saying!

Doing what we already know is what got us to where we are right now!

 

[mountainbigbull]

Just thinkin', Scuba divers police themselves with PADI training, so why can't we be like that?

Scuba is very similar sport if you think about it. Both have high consequences with things go wrong.

I think we as sledders have to start being the leaders here not the followers.