In the wake of the recent trajedies,

[etecheaven]

I have taken my AST 1 classroom course a few years back but have not taken the field session yet. The main reason is i get out the the mountains at most 4 times a year and its hard to take one of those weekends to do a field day and have the course line up with a day im there. Last year i only got out twice. Its always on the back of my mind but it never works out. Id say most of the guys i ride with have the course, and i do spend time looking on the internet at avalanches that have occurred and how they started.

The best thing i do before every trip is watch some of those videos of guys getting buried and how fast it all happens. It reminds a guy how the most innocent of rides can be fatal.

 

[Mike270412]

What happened in these last two tragedies? Haven't heard any details. At the very least hopefully something can be learned from these senseless deaths.

 

[teeroy]

good point, something that should be looked into and tracked somehow, if the majority have the tools and the training then what???

sounds like city folk that buy a 4 wheel drive and think they can just drive normally when conditions are bad....and end up in the weeds, or worse.

 

[snopro]

Ok fair enough..

What is YOUR solution to get more people to take a course?

the current scenario isn't cutting it.

I personally would like to see more dealers hosting actual AST1 courses, I know brp does the avalanche workshops but I'd like to see full AST 1 courses. If possible host it in the showroom, and maybe offer the attendees a 10% discount on all safety gear purchased from that location for a period of time. I know ZacsTracs has discount coupons at some dealers for courses and that's great too as long as the sales people are offering those out to the customers when they purchase their snowmobiles or parts.

There is no solid answer on how to get full compliance. Just like drivers training, not everyone takes it, nor is it mandatory or enforceable.

I think the manufacture or sales people simply have an obligation to say you have bought a 165 x 3 inch snowmobile that can take you to dangerous terrain and say they should take the appropriate training to ride in those areas. If you offer a 2 hour training course as I believe some manufactures did in the recent pass some people believe that is adequate.

Guys? I think there is alot the dealers and the manufacturers can do to help and a lot do but really? Be responsible for yourself for gawds sake? Why wait for someone to hold your hand and give it to you for free? Go out and get the damn thing. We push you guys to buy beacons and probes and bags and shovels and you want the dealer to buy you a course as well? How much money do you think dealers are making on sleds? Lol. People need to start being responsible for their own lives and not rely on someone to do it for them. Just my rant for the day. Sorry for any hurt feelers.

 

[snopro]

Ok fair enough..

What is YOUR solution to get more people to take a course?

the current scenario isn't cutting it.

I personally would like to see more dealers hosting actual AST1 courses, I know brp does the avalanche workshops but I'd like to see full AST 1 courses. If possible host it in the showroom, and maybe offer the attendees a 10% discount on all safety gear purchased from that location for a period of time. I know ZacsTracs has discount coupons at some dealers for courses and that's great too as long as the sales people are offering those out to the customers when they purchase their snowmobiles or parts.

There is no solid answer on how to get full compliance. Just like drivers training, not everyone takes it, nor is it mandatory or enforceable.

I think the manufacture or sales people simply have an obligation to say you have bought a 165 x 3 inch snowmobile that can take you to dangerous terrain and say they should take the appropriate training to ride in those areas. If you offer a 2 hour training course as I believe some manufactures did in the recent pass some people believe that is adequate.

Guys? I think there is alot the dealers and the manufacturers can do to help and a lot do but really? Be responsible for yourself for gawds sake? Why wait for someone to hold your hand and give it to you for free? Go out and get the damn thing. We push you guys to buy beacons and probes and bags and shovels and you want the dealer to buy you a course as well? How much money do you think dealers are making on sleds? Lol. People need to start being responsible for their own lives and not rely on someone to do it for them. Just my rant for the day. Sorry for any hurt feelers.

Sorry Tyler I re read your post and agree that that is a reasonable request but can't figure out how to edit it out.

 

[Bogger]

What happened in these last two tragedies? Haven't heard any details. At the very least hopefully something can be learned from these senseless deaths.

This is where I am right now...... just not sure where to pose the questions or if some would consider it "too soon" but fawk it......

Dan was riding alone, had there been someone with him would the outcome be different? was it the burial or injury that lead to the tragedy?

In general when someone is lost in an avalanche we find out where, then later who, but rarely do we find out why...... was it a "freak incident" (I work as a safety professional yet admit they do happen)? Were they not trained? Did they not have the gear or know how to use it? WERE THEY DOING SOMETHING EASILY IDENTIFIABLE AS WRONG OR WRECKLESS?

I have my AST1 - Classroom twice field once last year and will refresh every 2-3 years. I've always had the gear and have upgraded accordingly (now run a tracker 3 and an ABS bag). I've shown my 13 year old how to use the gear, we've played with the beacons and even dug pits. My concern is I still don't know fawk all, when I watch guys within my own circle climb some chit I think "fawk I don't like that" but they are not the only ones and sometimes I figure maybe I've become paranoid OR maybe just like in my profession it's never a problem until it's a problem. I've never witnessed a major slide in person let lone a fatality but if I did would it change my perspective. I love sledding but don't buy the "at least I'll go doing what I love" and if the pow is always fresh and the skies are always bluebird on the other side.....what the fawk are we all still doing here???????????

 

[rightsideup]

Guys? I think there is alot the dealers and the manufacturers can do to help and a lot do but really? Be responsible for yourself for gawds sake? Why wait for someone to hold your hand and give it to you for free? Go out and get the damn thing. We push you guys to buy beacons and probes and bags and shovels and you want the dealer to buy you a course as well? How much money do you think dealers are making on sleds? Lol. People need to start being responsible for their own lives and not rely on someone to do it for them. Just my rant for the day. Sorry for any hurt feelers.

I hope you did not misunderstand what I meant Ken I would think your obligation as a salesperson would simple be we sold you a new rev4 165 3inch moutainsled with some avy gear and recommend that you take a ast 1 course. the buyer may already have proper training or none at all which in that case you reminder will get him to do do.

 

[retiredpop]

People need to start being responsible for their own lives and not rely on someone to do it for them.

This is it in a nutshell folks. Being responsible means buying the gear, learning how to use it, taking an avalanche course, assess the conditions where you are riding and most importantly realize that all the aforementioned still requires you to think for yourself. Having all this knowledge and gear by itself won't save your life or make you bulletproof!

 

[deaner]

This is it in a nutshell folks. Being responsible means buying the gear, learning how to use it, taking an avalanche course, assess the conditions where you are riding and most importantly realize that all the aforementioned still requires you to think for yourself. Having all this knowledge and gear by itself won't save your life or make you bulletproof!

Exactly. It comes down to personal accountability and smart decision making. Look at Dan....the guy was SUPER knowledgeable and experienced. One or two bad decisions took his life. And before anyone jumps on me, I mean this in no disrespect to Dan. I really liked him.

I honestly dont think this is something that can be "legislated". Sure the government can impose rules, we as a group can impose training, etc.......but what it comes down to is continually monitoring conditions and making that risk/reward determination.

 

[TylerG]

Sorry Tyler I re read your post and agree that that is a reasonable request but can't figure out how to edit it out.

It's all good Ken, I like this thread, there are lots of good ideas being thrown around, and some off the wall ones too. I can assure you, avalanche safety providers and staff are watching and taking note.

 

[moyiesledhead]

I honestly dont think this is something that can be "legislated".

It sure can, but I guarantee we won't like it if it happens. Government tends to be better with a sledge hammer than a scalpel. ie: designated trail systems only, no off trail riding, speed limits, horsepower limits. Unlike what some are promoting, we really don't want government to solve this for us.

 

[drew562]

Rip Dan.

And to the comments. I can't believe some guys mention legislation. Decisions we make everyday determine whether we go home. Period. There's rules on the roads. People still turn left In front of cars. Speed limits. People still speed. Bad decisions can't be fixed by rules. Good choices not laws make sure We live another day.

 

[Cat401]

I have taken my AST 1 classroom course a few years back but have not taken the field session yet. The main reason is i get out the the mountains at most 4 times a year and its hard to take one of those weekends to do a field day and have the course line up with a day im there. Last year i only got out twice. Its always on the back of my mind but it never works out. Id say most of the guys i ride with have the course, and i do spend time looking on the internet at avalanches that have occurred and how they started.

The best thing i do before every trip is watch some of those videos of guys getting buried and how fast it all happens. It reminds a guy how the most innocent of rides can be fatal.

I am in the same boat as you....I took my classroom course (just here in January....and at a Doo dealer to boot!....thanks Riverside!) but now to get the field class done is hard to get organized. I am sold on the importance of the training. Just the classroom training alone gave me insight of signs to look for and make a measurable decision. My lifestyle....I am lucky if I can get away once or twice a year. I realize, we need snow to complete level 2 but it would sure be convenient if there was a closer place than the hills of BC. Question to the Lori Zac's & others....and this is probably a stupid question....is there a way to complete the field session closer to home (Edmonton area?)

 

[52weekbreak]

I love sledding but don't buy the "at least I'll go doing what I love" and if the pow is always fresh and the skies are always bluebird on the other side.....what the fawk are we all still doing here???????????

I imagine the answer for you (as it should be for most of us) it has everything to do with the Beautiful wife and 4 kids. Lots of people rely on us on this side of the light. To not do everything reasonable to be around for our family doesn't reflect well on us as husbands, wives, parents, sons or daughters.

 

[Zacs Avy Crew]

Not a half bad idea, if those who provide the training could connect with the dealers. A lot of them get sponsorships from dealers anyway. And for those who have already taken their AST 1 good excuse to get a refresher course.

Zacs has been working with dealers for years. It is hard for them as they have a full shop of things to sell. We also have early season discounts, also MAJOR refresher discounts.

The bottom line is that classes are available, reasonably priced, in or close to your community and in your riding areas. I'm pretty sure none of you work for free so there is really nothing I can do about proving because I can't work for nothing either.

My top three favourite reasons for not taking a class:
1: No thanks I have my air bag in good!
2: I never ride in Avy terrain.
3: I know what I'm doing and have ridden the hills for years!

Pretty sure we have heard it all. Including the ones that just look at you like your an idiot to even suggest such a thing.

 

[Zacs Avy Crew]

I am in the same boat as you....I took my classroom course (just here in January....and at a Doo dealer to boot!....thanks Riverside!) but now to get the field class done is hard to get organized. I am sold on the importance of the training. Just the classroom training alone gave me insight of signs to look for and make a measurable decision. My lifestyle....I am lucky if I can get away once or twice a year. I realize, we need snow to complete level 2 but it would sure be convenient if there was a closer place than the hills of BC. Question to the Lori Zac's & others....and this is probably a stupid question....is there a way to complete the field session closer to home (Edmonton area?)

I am sorry but to finish you really need to finish the course on the hill. It's JUST ONE DAY IN THE MOUNTAINS!!!! Please do it!

 

[Zacs Avy Crew]

This is where I am right now...... just not sure where to pose the questions or if some would consider it "too soon" but fawk it......

Dan was riding alone, had there been someone with him would the outcome be different? was it the burial or injury that lead to the tragedy?

In general when someone is lost in an avalanche we find out where, then later who, but rarely do we find out why...... was it a "freak incident" (I work as a safety professional yet admit they do happen)? Were they not trained? Did they not have the gear or know how to use it? WERE THEY DOING SOMETHING EASILY IDENTIFIABLE AS WRONG OR WRECKLESS?

Part of the problem is that it is the BC Coroner that needs to release the information to the public which may take anywhere from two to three years! There is no "Professionally Avy Trained Sledder" invited to do interviews with the survivors or to look directly at the terrain involved etc. Lori has already brought all this up a while ago and is trying to work it through the system with the people that make the decisions. Posted by Dawn.

 

[Highfly]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8122369249/
Decision making......

 

[Bogger]

That was in no way a slight against what you folks do, I'm aware of where the breakdown in communication is, it's just frustrating is all. I want to be in the know and sometimes information is just as valuable as formal education, without details we are missing a very important part of any equation.

Part of the problem is that it is the BC Coroner that needs to release the information to the public which may take anywhere from two to three years! There is no "Professionally Avy Trained Sledder" invited to do interviews with the survivors or to look directly at the terrain involved etc. Lori has already brought all this up a while ago and is trying to work it through the system with the people that make the decisions. Posted by Dawn.

 

[Zacs Avy Crew]

I think that all the AST Providers (that I have communicated with) completely agree with you. It's kind of like trying to fix something with one arm tied behind your back, you can muddle through but it's really not ideal.


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