Illegal snowmobiling at Bow Summit, Banff Nat'l Park

[glengine]

Fish and Wildlife - Environment - Province of British Columbia

I have had printed maps from these guys with all these area's in my shop for two seasons now for anyone who would like one so that they can see what area's are open and what is closed.

 

[~Rowdy~]

They should open the parks to sledding one weekend a year. Can you imagine? That'd be fun!

 

[fargineyesore]

If there declining now, then imagine what would happen if snowmobiles were allowed. think of a wolf running on a packed sled track and think of how fast it can run, then think about how fast it will run in deep powder up to it's belly. It's definatley going to run much faster on a packed sled track, so by snowmobiling in parks it's like giving predators roads to run on for hunting large animals.

My point is that if they're declining in the mountains with no snowmobiling now, how is it that snowmobiling is contributing to declining population in other areas? Won't the Caribou use the snowmobile tracks also?

 

[glengine]

They should open the parks to sledding one weekend a year. Can you imagine? That'd be fun!

There are currently some area's that are closed to sledding most of the year but they have certain times that they are open to sledding. I know that there was an area in smithers that was always closed to sledding but they let out a certain number of permits a year to go in there for the day sledding.

 

[Big Bark]

There were reports of an illegal snowmobiling incident last week between March 15 to 17 at Bow Summit. The vehicle associated with this incident is a black Dodge pick-up with a red fuel tank pulling a trailer with Saskatchewan plates. If anyone can offer any information, it would be appreciated.

I drove through there Wednesday night the 16th and Friday night the 18th and did not see any tracks. It was full moon so I would have noticed. Trust me I hang my head out the window and google and sniff the snow as we go through. The drive through was amazing because the full moon was shadowing on the side of bow glacier and what not and it made it kind of a black / white looking mountains from the shadowing.
Hard to explain but simply one of the most beautiful drives through there.

 

[tex78]

My point is that if they're declining in the mountains with no snowmobiling now, how is it that snowmobiling is contributing to declining population in other areas? Won't the Caribou use the snowmobile tracks also?

ya but so do the wolfs...... thats what they say the problems is.... the wolfs get up higher than normal cause the have tracks to get here the caribou is

 

[JaySimon]

Are you guys really that hard up for sledding spots?

I enjoy the parks, it is nice to not hear engines every once in a while.

 

[Summitric]

Does anyone actually have a copy of these supposed reports, or is it just more heresay? Was the original post just a joke on a buddy??? Jus' sayin'

 

[glengine]

ya but so do the wolfs...... thats what they say the problems is.... the wolfs get up higher than normal cause the have tracks to get here the caribou is

I know a guy that has trapped for a very long time in the visinity of one of ther area's that they closed to cariboo around mcbride here and he said he has watched that cariboo heard decline in numbers since long before sleds were even able to make it in there. The other thing is if an area gets closed to sledding i think it should be closed to ALL users heli-skiers included. Because you cant tell me that the choppers flyin around dont cause the cariboo to unnessicarily run and burn of unneeded energy and fat reserves.

 

[Roy Maxwell]

The point of national parks is mostly to protect animal species there and make sure that there's little to nothing interfering with their way of life, so if snowmobiling was allowed in parks, what would happen when all the snow is tracked up? Caribou and elk or whatever and other big animals rely on deep snow because it's easy for them to get through it because of their long legs, it's an adaptation to give them an advantage from getting away from wolves and predators etc. If there was snowmobiling allowed in national parks then the population of large animals will decline majorly because it would be much easier for predators to hunt them, as a result of all the snowmobile tracks around. So I don't think national parks will open for sledding anytime soon.

You are absolutely right. That was the original purpose of the National Parks Act as mandated by the federal government of the time sometime near the turn of the last century. Probably the most forward thinking piece of legislation any federal government has passed in the history of this great country. The intent at the time the Act was passed was to preserve "without any disturbance" unique pieces of the Canadian Landscape and the unique species within those parks forever as the government at the time was smart enough to know development would come to Canada and we would figure it out all to late after we lost those unique areas to development. Unfortunately with respect to at least the Western Mountain National Parks due to disecretions exercised by subsequent Governments that ship sailed a long time ago. There are now in those parks Towns with populations that double in the summer time and are larger than most other Towns in Alberta, divided highways that handle thousands of vehicles per day, World Class Ski Resorts, World Class Golf Courses, twinned large diameter oil pipelines (think what a mess that would make if one of those ever springs a leak) and lakes within the Parks ringed with private cottages just to name a few. I am not saying we necessarily need to be sledding in the National Parks I am just saying with all the other chit going on there why the hell not. Why do we have to be the ones that suffer when someone thinks the National Parks are overused or the Caribou population is declining or any other environmental issue that arises on any given day. It is because we are the easiest to pick on. They are still letting the ski resorts expand in the National Parks and the groomers, skiers and sleds make tracks the wolves can follow. They are still letting the heli ski operators fly in Caribou territory we are shut out of (never could figure that one out sitting on the east side of Chappel looking at some amazing out of bounds sledding and watching heli skiing choppers fly in and out of there. Lets see, that large noisy chopper with a bunch of people inside swirling up huge clouds of snow does not bother the Caribou but my modern non-modified snowmobile with the large can to decrease noise and emissions and miserly fuel injection does). Oh well I am not a wildlife biologist. What do I know. Point is we should never "bend over" everytime someone asks us to. We need to be good ambassadors for sledding by behaving, we need to ask for proof of the harm we will cause and we need to be treated on a level playing field with the other mountain users rather than being the convenient scapegoat.

 

[NosRX1]

Maybe its time to open up a hunting season on wolves and other predators, let the caribou bounce back some...after all its the caribou numbers that everyone is so concerned about today!...got bait and rifle...will travel! :d

 

[Roy Maxwell]

Maybe its time to open up a hunting season on wolves and other predators, let the caribou bounce back some...after all its the caribou numbers that everyone is so concerned about today!...got bait and rifle...will travel! :d

Great idea except the wolf numbers would drop and the caribou numbers would come back and then instead of Caribou Closure Areas we would have Wolf Closure Areas and of course it would be the fault of sledders that the wolf numbers declined and also of course not allowing sledders in a Wolf Closure Area would fix the problem.:d:d

 

[RevyG]

Then we will just get areas closed to save the wolves, some things just don't make it, when will we learn to let things be? Another way to create employment, biologists, pilots..... There are less than 10 in one herd here in Revy, do they really think they will bounce back, they keep getting killed on the hwy anyway. Will anyone tell us what happens when there are none left, will they open all the zones back up? Too bad they laid off all the people hired to enforce. Good thing we have a lot of areas around here still, thanks to the club.

 

[maierch]

Great idea except the wolf numbers would drop and the caribou numbers would come back and then instead of Caribou Closure Areas we would have Wolf Closure Areas and of course it would be the fault of sledders that the wolf numbers declined and also of course not allowing sledders in a Wolf Closure Area would fix the problem.:d:d

You might be on to something there!

1. Open season is put on Wolves to give the caribou population a chance to recover. $50 bounty put on Wolves.
2. Hunters Decimate wolves because of $50 bounty
3. Caribou Closure areas are opened to snowmobile traffic to allow them to make highways for the Wolf population to thrive.
4. Caribou, Wolves, and Snowmobilers live in peace and harmony!

 

[tex78]

MABE THEY SHOULD CLOSE THE HIGHWAYS CAUSE THE CARIBOU GET HIT ON THEM..... THEY ARE SURE TO RECOVER IF U CAN'T DO ANYTHING IN A 50 MILE RADIUS...................

HEY IF THEY LET ME IN THE AREAS WHERE WOLFS ARE I COULD RIDE BESIDE ONE A PET IT [ OR RUN IT DOWN LIKE THE DOG IT IS. ] AND USE IT FOR TRACTON IN THE EXTREME HILL CLIMBING WE ALL DO.........:d

 

[Bogger]

You might be on to something there!

1. Open season is put on Wolves to give the caribou population a chance to recover. $50 bounty put on Wolves.
2. Hunters Decimate wolves because of $50 bounty
3. Caribou Closure areas are opened to snowmobile traffic to allow them to make highways for the Wolf population to thrive.
4. Caribou, Wolves, and Snowmobilers live in peace and harmony!

but what about the penguins and hippos?????

 

[Sledderglen]

MABE THEY SHOULD CLOSE THE HIGHWAYS CAUSE THE CARIBOU GET HIT ON THEM..... THEY ARE SURE TO RECOVER IF U CAN'T DO ANYTHING IN A 50 MILE RADIUS...................

HEY IF THEY LET ME IN THE AREAS WHERE WOLFS ARE I COULD RIDE BESIDE ONE A PET IT [ OR RUN IT DOWN LIKE THE DOG IT IS. ] AND USE IT FOR TRACTON IN THE EXTREME HILL CLIMBING WE ALL DO.........:d

Tell us all your not running over things with your sled.

Others look at what is said here.

 

[pano-dude]

Are you guys really that hard up for sledding spots?

I enjoy the parks, it is nice to not hear engines every once in a while.

now this I can agree with, man i tell ya when i'm out camping the camp site throttle jockeys piss me off. 100's if not 1000kms of logging roads and trails to explore and dudes have to braaap 1-2-3 gears back and forth all day

there needs to be places where you need to actually put some effort in to get to and get away from phones, motors and technology.

 

[ZRrrr]

Don't even get me started with the Caribou thing. I have challenged the National Parks on some of their policies regarding protected areas and no on-leash dogs allowed. Contrary to parks (politically motivated) opinion, dogs are preceived as less a threat than a human walking. Have research papers to support it. Caribou know their common threats and act accordingly. In a discussion I had with Parks management they AGREED with research and my own personal views. Said it was striclty politically motivated. In lesser words it was a public relations excersize created by the desk sitters in Ottawa.

Caribou have become the poster child of the mountains as have baby seals for sealing.....yet baby seals are no longer harvested.

In reality wolves do not have the majority impact on Caribou populations. It is just one of the things that can be used as a tool or excuse to keep users out.

....and I competely agree that if there is going to be closures or limits set for specific groups, then it needs to be taken further and closed to ALL.

My rant

 

[maxwell]

anyone ever seen a wolf at elevation