Illegal snowmobiling at Bow Summit, Banff Nat'l Park

[imdoo'n]

well you could take howse pass to golden, i think it's 80 km or so

 

[tex78]

do ya mean ride howse pass?

 

[imdoo'n]

do ya mean ride howse pass?

yeah that's the one, lots of peeps hike it, but i'd just lay down till that feeling went away. :d

 

[Teth-Air]

wow, you think that is going to fly. banff and jasper have been non motorized from day one, can't see that changing anytime soon.

Thats the problem, we have all given up. This is your land too. What you need to understand it is just power in numbers. I am sure that ski hills are very negative to the parks with traffic, semi's full of food, booze, laundry etc. going every day. Also they have sewage treatment plants, diesel lifts, power poles running up there etc. The thing is the government would not dare close them simply because most of the population likes them. You can do anything if we can get the numbers to agree. Don't be fooled, protecting the parks is secondary to public pressure. The hard part is getting the ball rolling.

 

[Roy Maxwell]

Allowing sleds in National Parks? What next? Quads? Dirt Bikes? Any other OHV?

Be it whoever decided to ride there was in the wrong and if they are caught will be dealt with however the Parks people decide to deal with them.

But to argue that there should be motorized vehicles allowed in parks? Come on, give your heads a shake. Most OHV operators are responsible, but how many don't respect the areas they ride in now as it is? We can't police our own already.

I spilt my passions between motorized and "greener" activities. I am far from the yuppy tree hugging type that wants to close areas for OHV as I love anything to do with twisting a throttle. The flip side of it is there are many areas I never want to see people with quads getting into. I spend time hiking into these areas for the simple fact you can't ride into them. I was very disapointed last year to see that quads and bikes had made it into an area in BC last summer that was classed non-motorized. Once a footpath was turned into a 4 foot wide hiway.

Yes you could argue that sledding is less destructive and doesn't impact remote areas as much as other propelled vehicles but where do you draw the line?

If you want to argue there should be more areas classed for OHV use thats great, give us more riding areas, but to have a blanket statement suggesting vehicles be ridden in Parks is just as asinine as the greenies wanting to outlaw anything with a motor.

No one on this thread mentioned anything about quads being allowed in National Parks. It was you that made the quantum leap from sleds using existing wide trails to access the alpine once there is sufficient snow cover to quads tearing up narrow hiking trails. You say "What next?" and that is the problem because that is the exact argument those that would like to see no sleds in the mountains would use. Those that fear monger always use that expression when they have no evidence that what is proposed is harmful. Sleds in the National Parks. What next? End of argument. Teth-Air is right, we give up to easily. Given that the National Parks are owned by all of us, given that in my opinion no concrete argument can be made against their controlled use under sufficient snow cover conditions, given that western National Parks used to allow sledding and some National Parks still do (Gros Morne National Park in Newfoundland still does) and given that there are already lots of sleds running around in western National Parks setting cross country ski trails and doing maintenance and safety work at the numerous ski areas in our National Parks this is not as preposterous an idea as some might think. Might be very difficult now that we made that big step backwards when this right was taken away from us but we have to stop giving up and taking steps backwards and saying "oh well we still have lots of areas left". We can only do that for so long. Sledders are not second class citizens.

 

[retiredpop]

I think people are making too much of this. The guy broke the law by riding in the park but it is no different than others who break laws. If they catch him then he will be fined. Period!
This has not been blown out of proportion by the media which is probably a disappointment to the person who started this thread.

 

[barleyfarmer]

I agree some areas should be opened to sledding only as I believe sledding is less destructive as quadding and bikes!The ground and creeks are frozen over in the winter thus erosion will not be an issue!But everyone knows there will be a bunch of quadders that will go in late in the season and screw it up for everyone because its their 'right'!I have some crown land close to my place that was awesome for sledding and hunting that is basically impassable until the ground freezes now because of quadders!It is 'floater' (basically grass floating on muskeg),the quads come in the spring on the sled trails when the frost is coming out and they chew the grass up so the holes are basically bottomless till freeze up,makes hunting alot harder!I use my quad for hunting and I don't see the point of chewing the ch!t out of the trails!!My point is if sleds were going to the only things aloud no damage would be done but the quadders would be on here next bitching that they're getting screwed!!

 

[Iron Horse Racing]

A few years back I met a friend in Grande Cache and we went sledding north of Town. Neither of us were familiar with the area and got turned a around a bit. Used my handy compass and headed back towards the hiway, came out of the bush to discover that we had drifted south west a lot more then we thought and we were in the Wilmore Wilderness Park……

Both of us had a call in the hotel that night, our wife’s had received call’s from the Grande Cache RCMP confirming that we were sledding in the area, nothing else. Received a letter a few days later thanking me for coming to the area and indicating if we needed help finding area’s to sled that didn’t include the park we could stop in and they would help. He also went on to point out the fines they could levy, confiscate permanently the sleds and trucks ….

Closed with come back soon…….

But I think this guys in for a bit more then that....

I to like a lot of people see a hill of untracked powder and wish I could.....thats the difference between giving into wants and knowing whats best for all involved..... " keep the parks as is "

 

[2manykids]

A few years back I met a friend in Grande Cache and we went sledding north of Town. Neither of us were familiar with the area and got turned a around a bit. Used my handy compass and headed back towards the hiway, came out of the bush to discover that we had drifted south west a lot more then we thought and we were in the Wilmore Wilderness Park……

Both of us had a call in the hotel that night, our wife’s had received call’s from the Grande Cache RCMP confirming that we were sledding in the area, nothing else. Received a letter a few days later thanking me for coming to the area and indicating if we needed help finding area’s to sled that didn’t include the park we could stop in and they would help. He also went on to point out the fines they could levy, confiscate permanently the sleds and trucks ….

Closed with come back soon…….

But I think this guys in for a bit more then that....

I to like a lot of people see a hill of untracked powder and wish I could.....thats the difference between giving into wants and knowing whats best for all involved..... " keep the parks as is "

You can not even take a chainsaw in there, it is the only 100% non motorized park. And i hope it stays that way forever. Even though it is a very short ride to Mcbride.

 

[takethebounce]

No one on this thread mentioned anything about quads being allowed in National Parks. It was you that made the quantum leap from sleds using existing wide trails to access the alpine once there is sufficient snow cover to quads tearing up narrow hiking trails. You say "What next?" and that is the problem because that is the exact argument those that would like to see no sleds in the mountains would use. Those that fear monger always use that expression when they have no evidence that what is proposed is harmful....QUOTE]


I didn't know the difference between sledding and quading is categorized as quantum.

Its not that I wouldn't enjoy the opportunity to sled within Park areas but the Parks already have a limited ability to withstand the use they endure. Adding further stress to that community or ecosystem is contrary to what the land is designated for.

I have often talked about wishing there was an opportunity for the Parks to allow a limited number of sledding "tickets" or passes to be drawn annually for those interested to ride in certain areas at points during the season. I know people who would pay copious amounts for that chance. During that time they could study the impact. But am I rolling over by accepting the reality of that idea not happening?

You arguement is valid, I don't disagree that everyone has given up much but its not necessarily your or anyone elses "right" to reverse it. Correct in that I was the one who mentioned quading, but OHV as it is categorized is what I was reffering to. I haven't read back to see if anyone else used "OHV" in their post.

I don't see how I am being a fear monger if that is what you are concluding? I am not trying to influence anyones opinion, it was my own. Also being that I am for or positive in the use of OHV it further disparges your theory.

This could go on and I know its easier to agree to disagree in the end. You are welcome to express a reply as I am more than willing to change my opinions based on your and others views. I even encourage you to start the reversal process on recreational sledding in Parks in Western Canada. I may even support you.

 

[Bogger]

I used the term OHV's because that is the term that is used to define all motorized (land based) recreational vehicles in the legislation....

I'm torn on the parks issue, it would have to be controled, and limited to just snow machines....

I love to quad but I'm not blind in the fact that they do wreak havoc on ecosystems, support local errosion, and some of the azzhats who ride them leave an unmistakable trail of filth & debris behind them....

As far as existing infrastructure within the parks in the grand scheme of things it is relitively minor, roads are few and far between and to my knowledge industry is kept out for the most part....

We often take for granted the space we have, here in Canada our national/provincial park space is larger than many countries of the world and I'm sure as the population density of the world increases eventually there will be no other place to view "nature".... I do however enjoy viewing nature from the seat of a snowmobile....

 

[glengine]

I dont know if people realize it but they dont have to have signs stateing that an area is closed. It is every sledders responsiblity to know where they can legally ride. Just like it is all hunters responsibilities to know when what seasons open in what area's. That being said i would like to see signage at these area's as i think it might help the sport in keeping some people out of the area. But some people dont care if it is closed or not, for example i talked to some guys last year and heard that they were in a narea that was closed and i politely told them that the area was closed and they said oh really i didn't know that and acted all suprised, and quess where i saw them headed the next day right back to the same closed area that they were the day before. The fact if the matter is this if people would respect the area's that are off limit's or closed to sledding some of these area's could be possibly opened to sled use at specific times of the year( as there are already some area's like this in BC). As for fines i was told that fines can range up to 100G and have sled, truck and trailer all confiscated for good, they more or less say grab your wallet and find a way home. It is no different than getting caught with a animal in your vehicle out of season or not having a tag for that particular animal. I would love to see more area's opened up for sledding but a whole sledding community we all need to educate others and really work a policing the people we see and ride with.

 

[~Rowdy~]

Did you know that the National parks of Canada are not actually owned by Canada? They are owned by the Queen of England. My friend told me this, whether it's true or not, it's a fun fact.

 

[Bogger]

Did you know that the National parks of Canada are not actually owned by Canada? They are owned by the Queen of England. My friend told me this, whether it's true or not, it's a fun fact.

hence the term "Crown Land"

The ownership factor of canada is

1. The Queen is the sole legal owner of all the land of Canada. The private “holdership” factor, based on freehold tenure of housing is 67%. For all other land it is less than 9.7%, with over 90% of Canadian land remaining as Crown leasehold, administered for the Crown by various agencies and departments of the government of Canada

 

[~Rowdy~]

hence the term "Crown Land"

I never knew. I learned something that day.

 

[Summiteer]

I don't understand what all the hubbub is. We all have equal access to the land, just because you can't ride a sled there doesn't mean chit, there are plenty of other ways to see the area. Just because you want to do something doesn't mean you have the right...

 

[Summiteer]

hence the term "Crown Land"

The ownership factor of canada is

1. The Queen is the sole legal owner of all the land of Canada. The private “holdership” factor, based on freehold tenure of housing is 67%. For all other land it is less than 9.7%, with over 90% of Canadian land remaining as Crown leasehold, administered for the Crown by various agencies and departments of the government of Canada

She's gotta die soon, maybe I can inherit it all......Then none of you bastages will be allowed on it.......:d:d:d

 

[Bogger]

I don't understand what all the hubbub is. We all have equal access to the land, just because you can't ride a sled there doesn't mean chit, there are plenty of other ways to see the area. Just because you want to do something doesn't mean you have the right...

Take me calling Mitch an azzhat as an example.....

I may want to...

this however does not make it right...

sorry

 

[Bogger]

I never knew. I learned something that day.

I could teach you LOTS......

but my instructional days are over.....

 

[Roy Maxwell]

Did you know that the National parks of Canada are not actually owned by Canada? They are owned by the Queen of England. My friend told me this, whether it's true or not, it's a fun fact.

You friend is correct to a certain degree. All "Crown" land is held by Her Majesty the Queen in the Right of the Province of ______". (Insert whatever Province you are in). Even though it is her name on the title she does not really own it, she holds it for the people of Canada and whatever Province the "Crown" land is located in. The Queen could not sell "Crown" land if she ends up running a little short on cash after the next Royal Wedding.