How do we keep going

[Depsnolvr]

No disrespect to you but that's part of the problem in our community....

you see someone doing something unsafe.....let them know....if they tell you to f-off....so what, at least you tried. Chanced are also they might thank you for seeing something (a danger) that they didn't and move to a safer spot. We all need to get involved to make our sport safer

Agreed! This is extremely important. The tenth commandment from the Mountain Sledding list "If you see someone doing something unsafe, SPEAK UP"

We did this yesterday and I am certain we prevented a large incident and the riders were very appreciative of the gesture and quick lesson. Believe it or not, there are people out there still who just don't know......

 

[Taminator]

How do we keep going? We simply keep going. With more knowledge, more awareness and with a focus on terrain, conditions, and weather to go with the education, tools and the avy bag. Terrain choice comes before everything IMO. In the past we didn't have sleds to take us to these remote places, we didn't have avalanche training or any tools, and we rarely wore helmets. We could get away with this because we couldn't get to the danger, weather conditions were more predictable and there were far less people on the mountain - times have changed and our approach has to change.

I'm a member of the backcountry police and probably in need lights and sirens sometimes. There have been days that I've spent most of my ride talking to groups about the danger that day and more times than not they are not aware, or if they are aware of the overall rating that day, they're not aware of that particular spot, or may not know the history of the snowpack as they're from out of town, don't dig pits, etc. I've been told 'yes, we're well aware, thank you'…and then they continue to put themselves and others in danger. In these cases our group will stay nearby, within ear or eyeshot of where they are, 'in case' they need rescued. I'm not a fan of this, but sometimes you can't get people to see what they're doing is wrong, and just can't leave them to their own stupidity to kill themselves or others so we stay in rescue distance. The days that you get people tell you 'thank you so much, we had no idea we were being so stupid', is well worth the effort imo. I've had people come back to me and ask me 'do you think this area is ok?' So at least I made them think. Sure these people should be more aware and should know this, but the reality is they don't and it only hurts all of us by turning a blind eye. The same as it takes a community to raise a child, it takes a sledder community to raise a sledder.

 

[snochuk]

No disrespect to you but that's part of the problem in our community....

you see someone doing something unsafe.....let them know....if they tell you to f-off....so what, at least you tried. Chanced are also they might thank you for seeing something (a danger) that they didn't and move to a safer spot. We all need to get involved to make our sport safer

Intervention, intervention, intervention!
I try to pound this into everyone's head at work. If you do not intervene on an unsafe act you are worse the the one you are watching as you know better and sit with hands in pockets shrugging shoulders.
My brother and I were in Salmon watching 7 guys tear up a hill 4 at a time. We went over to them and explained that if the hill slid and burried them at least two would die as the remaining three would ot be able to get the rest out.
All young guys with beacons and probes but never had practiced let alone take some training. Through the conversation and sharing some hot pot food found out one guy was married to one of my high school buddies dughter.

To me if you do nothing when you have the ability to expand the kowledge of others on the hill......you are a big part of the problem.
Not taking a shot at anyone but......ya we all ARE the mountain police.
And that is a part of the attitude we need to develope and put in practice!

 

[0neoldfart]

I've been riding in the mountains for a "few" years, and have no intention of stopping until I physically can't. In my opinion, the sport has evolved in terms of equipment capability, but not so much in the education department... We have machinery that is far more capable then 80% of the people riding them, and it is relatively inexpensive - you couldn't build a sled 10 years ago that had the same capability without spending 30-40 thousand dollars. Easy financing terms have helped the popularity of the sport, as have the videos displaying riders doing some pretty extreme stuff in the back country. For me, watching weather patterns and ambient temps / snowfall has a lot to do with whether I choose to ride one area over another. The cool temps we had with no snowfall laid a layer of hoar frost on top of the snow pack, so it was a matter of WHEN, not if we would see some slides once another layer had fallen on such an unstable base. Basically, one has to learn to ride as per the prevailing conditions, not for the opportunity. If that means sitting out for a weekend, so be it, you'll live to ride another day.
And there are a LOT of riders that do not realize the inherent risks - some without any training, or being mentored by a buddy who's been to the hills once or twice. Inexperienced riders should hire a guide and ask the necessary questions, not simply take the advice of "follow me"... I think personal pride / not wanting to look scared plays a part in a lot of bad decisions.
As a community, we need to educate and encourage new riders - even if it means stepping out of our comfort zone to do so. None of us would watch a 4 year old kid play on the edge of an abyss without doing / saying something, because we know that the sense of reasoning / danger isn't present in a child. The same rules apply when dealing with a new or inexperienced sledder in the mountains. Just because he or she is over the age of majority doesn't mean they know the risks involved, and they may not have the experience or education to make smart decisions.
Any injury / fatality is tragic, whether it be sledding in the mountains or a vehicle accident, etc. But 90% of accidents are preventable with the right education and frame of mind... food for thought.

 

[eclipse1966]

I will turn 50 this June and love to ride and will continue to do so until I can no longer do so. That being said, I have to respect the feelings of my family and put them at ease. My wife was born and raised in the mountains and had this image of us riding in dangerous areas so I took her to Hunters several times to show her around (she hates the cold LOL). Yes you can find areas that an avy can occur but 80% of the area is relatively safe. She is now more/less at peace with that concern. I have even heard her tell her parents that we play in safe zones. Now my parents also had the same concerns so a couple summers ago we took them with the side x side and now they also understand the terrain a lot better (Hunters). Now I just have to stay out of the tree wells

 

[sledneck_03]

Intervention, intervention, intervention!
I try to pound this into everyone's head at work. If you do not intervene on an unsafe act you are worse

OH&S book is written with blood! Rules are set because someone died or was hurt prior and a rule was made. Some places make more extreme rules but thats on them.

Hate to one day needing more laws in the back country but i can see needing avy training cert needed in the future.

 

[Barker]

i think this is about the best way to sum it all up, over the years the hills have claimed some of the best most experienced people there are, whether it is sledding, quading , horseback, hunting, it is Mother Nature letting us know that we are not the boss. And for a lot of us that is part of the draw to it, to do stuff that most can only dream of and for those that return we have stories/memories to last a lifetime........ However long that may be.............It truly is the last frontier on this planet and we are blessed to have it in our back yard.

I have to completely disagree with this. It is not chance at all. It's decisions that we make when we are out there and risk vrs reward with in your self. We can all ride the back country safely even at very high Avalanche conditions. It's your decision where, when, and with who. It's up to you if you want to get the training, or know how to do this, your the boss. You can't change Mother Nature but you can work around it.. No different than surfing, lots of guys can stand up and surf hit the ocean and ride waves, they have no idea of tides, undercurrent weather patterns, reefs,Sharks, to really do it safely. Or if they wanted they could learn about all that stuff and know risks make safer decisions based on there knowledge. Don't get me wrong my condolences go out to family's and everyone involved out in Mcbride, it is devastating! and no disrespect but these big incidents are preventable. And it's never just one persons fault or mistake. It is a chain of events and decisions wether right or wrong, that lead to these. Not chance.

 

[luvz da mud]

It doesn't matter that driving kills more people than sledding. Sledding in the back country is a million times more risky.

Think so? i'll try my luck in the backcountry where I can manage and mitigate the risk over driving highways or city where most people can't see 5' past the end of their hoods and text all day long and are generally oblivious. If sledding was near as dangerous as you make it sound there would be ALOT more deaths

 

[X-Treme]

Think so? i'll try my luck in the backcountry where I can manage and mitigate the risk over driving highways or city where most people can't see 5' past the end of their hoods and text all day long and are generally oblivious. If sledding was near as dangerous as you make it sound there would be ALOT more deaths

There would likely be a LOT more deaths if 90% of the population snowmobiled EVERY day too. You're trying to compare watermelons and grapes.

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[Lem Lamb]

When we are born, there is a life long risk that something in or out of our control will happen.

Our option is to mitigate risk by continuing to expand apoun learning what it takes to survive.

If we fail to plan, our plan will fail.

What will you bring to your next outting when you step out from behind the door of common sence that swings on a 2 way hinge ?

 

[Foxstar45]

Think so? i'll try my luck in the backcountry where I can manage and mitigate the risk over driving highways or city where most people can't see 5' past the end of their hoods and text all day long and are generally oblivious. If sledding was near as dangerous as you make it sound there would be ALOT more deaths

You going to live in the back country the rest of your life? No ! You would die if you did that!. So, you have to drive on the highways AND sled. Not either or. No problem though.. Motor vehicle deaths per 100 million miles driven have been trending down for 40 years to all time lows. Nonsense aside. My point was.. Sledding is dangerous. If you go snowmobiling your risk goes up. Start chain smoking it goes up more.

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[Barker]

You going to live in the back country the rest of your life? No ! You would die if you did that!. So, you have to drive on the highways AND sled. Not either or. No problem though.. Motor vehicle deaths per 100 million miles driven have been trending down for 40 years to all time lows. Nonsense aside. My point was.. Sledding is dangerous. If you go snowmobiling your risk goes up. Start chain smoking it goes up more.

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I think what he's saying is, it's easier to manage your risk in the back country with proper knowledge, one reason being there is less human factor you have to take into account. Your trying to argue snowmobiling is dangerous. But it's only as dangerous as you want it to be with the proper know how. Going for a dip in the pool is a lot more dangerous when you don't know how to swim.. With the proper knowledge and training you can easily do this safely.

 

[clifford the big red dog]

Well boys this conversation reminded me of a conversation I had with some people from the avalanche world counsel, well not sure if that was there official title, but they came to revelstoke to look at turbo after the big slide. Education was important to them and even with everything that they had done 2500 people die in the world every year from avalanches', whether they snowmobiled, skied,snowboarded or live in a avy prone valley, They still died. So pay attention to where you ride, you are way past Alberta Hill (TOTO) and come home safe comrades

 

[Caper11]

No disrespect to you but that's part of the problem in our community....

you see someone doing something unsafe.....let them know....if they tell you to f-off....so what, at least you tried. Chances are also they might thank you for seeing something (a danger) that they didn't and move to a safer spot. We all need to get involved to make our sport safer

I agree with the this 110% BUT, and sorry if guys do not agree with this I'm not going to stop in avy alley when guys are climbing it to give them a "you shouldn't be climbing there" and put myself in the line of fire.
If it's safe to do so I will but there comes a point where a fella has to protect himself as well.








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[Cat401]

I agree with the this 110% BUT, and sorry if guys do not agree with this I'm not going to stop in avy alley when guys are climbing it to give them a "you shouldn't be climbing there" and put myself in the line of fire.
If it's safe to do so I will but there comes a point where a fella has to protect himself as well.

absolutely, don't put yourself in danger.....

 

[the_real_wild1]

There are a few reasons why I have decided to stop riding in the mountains. The risk is one of them. I have had close calls on id say 60% of my trips. I can sled around Alberta and have just as much fun as I do in the mountains.

 

[tundra twin track]

I am saddened when I hear of multiple victims in avys. This will be my 31 winter riding the high country and on my 22nd winter I was caught in a avy,misjudged a drop in point and got caught ABS saved my bacon as 9 of my freinds watched from the ridge above.I made a mistake for sure but would hope more riders would ride with some distance between them and park in safe place.I am not as aggressive or goal driven as I was when younger,but really enjoy the sport.

 

[zeke]

Everyone is saying how we have to educate and help the guys who dont know or are inexperienced. And that's great. But From what I understand these guys were all very experienced and had the training. My question is how can that many get burried? They were all in the wrong place at the same time? And I don't know the whole story. I've seen lots of guys doing dumb sh!t and they seem to get away with it. I thought we knew lots and were careful but I watched a buddy get burried and we couldn't save him. It's mother nature and she is unpredictable at best. It can be risky business but most of the time it's allgood. I ask myself the same question everytime I hear about these incidents. How come you still go?

 

[scotts]

Everyone is saying how we have to educate and help the guys who dont know or are inexperienced. And that's great. But From what I understand these guys were all very experienced and had the training. My question is how can that many get burried? They were all in the wrong place at the same time? And I don't know the whole story. I've seen lots of guys doing dumb sh!t and they seem to get away with it. I thought we knew lots and were careful but I watched a buddy get burried and we couldn't save him. It's mother nature and she is unpredictable at best. It can be risky business but most of the time it's allgood. I ask myself the same question everytime I hear about these incidents. How come you still go?

How come I still go? Well for starters there is this inherient human trait that none of us truely believes it will ever actually happen to us!
Secondly, for myself it's what I love, it's the only place or thing that I do that I truely lose myself in, the mountains call to me so strongly that I can't imagine not going! I never feel as alive or at home as I do in the alpine! So when I hear that "call" I go!

 

[Bogger]

I agree.... I don't even have to venture far from the trail/cabin. There is something about being someplace that so few have ever been before, I felt the same way hiking around up in NWT.

I like playing in the trees and am just content being there taking it in... I feel the same about my boat....

How come I still go? Well for starters there is this inherient human trait that none of us truely believes it will ever actually happen to us!
Secondly, for myself it's what I love, it's the only place or thing that I do that I truely lose myself in, the mountains call to me so strongly that I can't imagine not going! I never feel as alive or at home as I do in the alpine! So when I hear that "call" I go!