Hot tubs

[lilduke]

Better have a good CYA set up be fore doing bromine.

Whats cya? Think ill just do what bob said...

 

[lilduke]

I had an ozonator. After doing a crap job of managing PH the pump seals were leaking and we installed a new pump and spa pack when the tub was 10 years old. At the time the tub guy told me to chuck that ozonator in the garbage and change your water frequently. Best advice in my opinion and simplified things. I change water every 3 months regardless of use. Fill, adjust PH and keep bromine dispenser full is all I do.
Prior to this I remember constantly playing water chemist and constantly purchasing PH up, PH down spa shock chemicals.

Whats your CYA level? Do you know or care?

 

[bobsledder]

No idea what it is. All I have ever used is bromine tablets in a floating dispenser

 

[deaner]

Whats cya? Think ill just do what bob said...

Cover your ass?

 

[t300]

Tip for those who need a lot of ph down, use muriatic acid instead. Way cheaper, been using same jug for years.

 

[lilduke]

Cover your ass?

Thats what the shorts are for. Lol

 

[smokinD]

Cyanuric Acid,

Which bromine tabs are you using? There a several different formulations of solid brominating tablets on the market. Many tablets use BCDMH (1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin). BCDMH adds both chlorine and bromine to the water. If excess bromide ion is in the water (say, from adding sodium bromide) or there is spent bromine in the spa (sanitizing bromine is reduced to bromide), then the chlorine from the BCDMH will simply activate (oxidize) the bromide back into sanitizing bromine (the chlorine is then converted into chloride ion).

If Dibromodimethylhydantoin (DBDMH) is used, then only sanitizing bromine is formed in the water and you would need to add a chlorine product (bleach or dichlor) to activate any spent bromide. Ozone can also oxidize bromide back into bromine. MPS is slower at oxidizing bromide into bromine but it can be used. However, if one uses MPS, it can interfere with the standard DPD halogen test chemicals and confuse the results. Thus, you typically want to avoid regularly using MPS for activation purposes.

If they are BCDMH tablets, then no additional oxidizer is needed (no MPS). You simply fill the floater and adjust the opening to achieve a stable Br level. Just note that bromine floaters are not very accurate/reliable devices. At first you might get the right opening setting and then find a few days later that it’s not keeping up. You could wind up chasing your tail a lot with it. An ozonator on the spa helps to keep a more consistent Br level but they are notorious on hot tubs for being unreliable as they are usually low-end, cheap units with poor output.

Just keep an eye on your pH and TA because you don’t want those to crash on you. If the water turns yellow/brown color, that’s an indication of very acidic water conditions in brominated water

The CYA is not going to affect bromine. Theoretically, high CYA levels could slow down the conversion of bromide into bromine because the CYA would make the hypochlorous acid (HOCl) levels a lot lower, but that would be really hard to see....and you'd need very high levels of CYA. SO if you're using dichlor to activate bromide back into bromine, that's fine. Just know that with a bromine tub, you'll probably want to be very strict on dumping the tub every 3 months or so to make sure the water is fresh. As long as you keep the tub plumbing properly purged (use Ahh-some) and the chemistry in line, using bromine shouldn't be too hard.

As a side note, I would not use the MPS very regularly. MPS can activate bromine BUT it also adds a lot of sulfates to the water and sulfates will attack the metal in your tub heater faster than chlorides will. So regular and frequent use of MPS can have significant downsides for your hot tub's heater.

Chlorine is used as the oxidizer to convert bromide ion (Br-) to sanitizing hypobromous acid (HOBr). When the chlorine oxidizes the bromide it gets reduced to chloride ion (Cl-), basically salt. So the use of chlorine is not significant. As long as the bromide ion concentration is larger than the amount of chlorine added, there will be no chlorine in the water after a very short period of time. This happens because the conversion of bromide to bromine is an extremely fast chemical reaction and it goes totally to completion. This is why a bromide “bank” of 30ppm is suggested - that is a lot more bromide ion as compared to a few ppm of chlorine.

The only way to not use chlorine is to use a different oxidizer. Ozone is typically added to a hot tub by a corona discharge ozone generator. However, those devices are typically very inefficient and don’t last long. There’s also no indication when they fail so a tub owner will not know right away that the unit is not working.

Potassium monopersulfate (MPS) is another oxidant but it is slow to convert bromide to bromine. It is quite acidic and leaves sulfates behind as a by product. Sulfates are typically more damaging to metal tub components than chlorides especially if the pH gets too low.

The best way to convert bromide to bromine is to use regular, unscented laundry bleach as it is sodium hypochlorite and the only excess it adds is a little bit of salt. Liquid chlorine itself has a slightly basic effect on water and mildly raises pH. That is easily overcome with a little bit of muriatic acid.

And there you have it folks happy tubbing

 

[lilduke]

Well that looks like a whole bunch of chit i dont need to know. And not going to read.

Thanks for the science report, but i just want to hot tub not be a chemist.


Thanks again to Bob for the useful advice..

 

[lilduke]

If I went in a hot tub store and they started going on like that, id leave.

 

[TROLLCAT]

This is all I use
Discs go into a floaty
Adjust PH once then change water
Get the receipt for from dealer for the amount of chemicals you for start up and maintenance

 

[lilduke]

I got a sheet from the dealer and the chemicals. Just no floaty thing.


Thats what im missing. So floaty thing i will get. Haha

 

[t300]

I must be the least advanced here. Fill tub with well water, add muriatic acid, add bromine floater. Do it again 6 months later. Use the same shorts, leave them in the garage. Same tub over 3 houses, every well/water source needs different adjustment on fill but once you figure it out it’s literally rinse and repeat. And Don’t invite visitors

 

[lilduke]

Im single and like visitors. So if that means i have to clean the tub once in a while, is what it is.

 

[team dirt]

Im single and like visitors. So if that means i have to clean the tub once in a while, is what it is.

Do you have a one man 5 ladies tub?

 

[lilduke]

Do you have a one man 5 ladies tub?

That is the ideal situation for sure.

 

[bobsledder]

I must be the least advanced here. Fill tub with well water, add muriatic acid, add bromine floater. Do it again 6 months later. Use the same shorts, leave them in the garage. Same tub over 3 houses, every well/water source needs different adjustment on fill but once you figure it out it’s literally rinse and repeat. And Don’t invite visitors

I am like you Dont know chemistry. Just try to keep it simple.

 

[bobsledder]

Cyanuric Acid,

Which bromine tabs are you using? There a several different formulations of solid brominating tablets on the market. Many tablets use BCDMH (1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin). BCDMH adds both chlorine and bromine to the water. If excess bromide ion is in the water (say, from adding sodium bromide) or there is spent bromine in the spa (sanitizing bromine is reduced to bromide), then the chlorine from the BCDMH will simply activate (oxidize) the bromide back into sanitizing bromine (the chlorine is then converted into chloride ion).

If Dibromodimethylhydantoin (DBDMH) is used, then only sanitizing bromine is formed in the water and you would need to add a chlorine product (bleach or dichlor) to activate any spent bromide. Ozone can also oxidize bromide back into bromine. MPS is slower at oxidizing bromide into bromine but it can be used. However, if one uses MPS, it can interfere with the standard DPD halogen test chemicals and confuse the results. Thus, you typically want to avoid regularly using MPS for activation purposes.

If they are BCDMH tablets, then no additional oxidizer is needed (no MPS). You simply fill the floater and adjust the opening to achieve a stable Br level. Just note that bromine floaters are not very accurate/reliable devices. At first you might get the right opening setting and then find a few days later that it’s not keeping up. You could wind up chasing your tail a lot with it. An ozonator on the spa helps to keep a more consistent Br level but they are notorious on hot tubs for being unreliable as they are usually low-end, cheap units with poor output.

Just keep an eye on your pH and TA because you don’t want those to crash on you. If the water turns yellow/brown color, that’s an indication of very acidic water conditions in brominated water

The CYA is not going to affect bromine. Theoretically, high CYA levels could slow down the conversion of bromide into bromine because the CYA would make the hypochlorous acid (HOCl) levels a lot lower, but that would be really hard to see....and you'd need very high levels of CYA. SO if you're using dichlor to activate bromide back into bromine, that's fine. Just know that with a bromine tub, you'll probably want to be very strict on dumping the tub every 3 months or so to make sure the water is fresh. As long as you keep the tub plumbing properly purged (use Ahh-some) and the chemistry in line, using bromine shouldn't be too hard.

As a side note, I would not use the MPS very regularly. MPS can activate bromine BUT it also adds a lot of sulfates to the water and sulfates will attack the metal in your tub heater faster than chlorides will. So regular and frequent use of MPS can have significant downsides for your hot tub's heater.

Chlorine is used as the oxidizer to convert bromide ion (Br-) to sanitizing hypobromous acid (HOBr). When the chlorine oxidizes the bromide it gets reduced to chloride ion (Cl-), basically salt. So the use of chlorine is not significant. As long as the bromide ion concentration is larger than the amount of chlorine added, there will be no chlorine in the water after a very short period of time. This happens because the conversion of bromide to bromine is an extremely fast chemical reaction and it goes totally to completion. This is why a bromide “bank” of 30ppm is suggested - that is a lot more bromide ion as compared to a few ppm of chlorine.

The only way to not use chlorine is to use a different oxidizer. Ozone is typically added to a hot tub by a corona discharge ozone generator. However, those devices are typically very inefficient and don’t last long. There’s also no indication when they fail so a tub owner will not know right away that the unit is not working.

Potassium monopersulfate (MPS) is another oxidant but it is slow to convert bromide to bromine. It is quite acidic and leaves sulfates behind as a by product. Sulfates are typically more damaging to metal tub components than chlorides especially if the pH gets too low.

The best way to convert bromide to bromine is to use regular, unscented laundry bleach as it is sodium hypochlorite and the only excess it adds is a little bit of salt. Liquid chlorine itself has a slightly basic effect on water and mildly raises pH. That is easily overcome with a little bit of muriatic acid.

And there you have it folks happy tubbing

You a chemist? That is interesting stuff but way over my head. The hot tub store set me up with bromine over 20 years ago and that is all I have ever used.

 

[bobsledder]

Im single and like visitors. So if that means i have to clean the tub once in a while, is what it is.

I learned long time ago not to give a ch!t about what the girls products or suits do to the water. I stick to to the three month schedule but if water get all foamy and cloudy after the girls are in there and a few drinks get spilled in the water I just dump and refill. Much happier life that way.

 

[lilduke]

I learned long time ago not to give a ch!t about what the girls products or suits do to the water. I stick to to the three month schedule but if water get all foamy and cloudy after the girls are in there and a few drinks get spilled in the water I just dump and refill. Much happier life that way.

Fkn eh. If i get girls over that i actually want in the tub, im not giving them a rule list or back ground check before i let them in the tub.


Fresh water comes out of the tap and they aren't charging me by the gallon. Lol

 

[hbar218]

Cyanuric Acid,

Which bromine tabs are you using? There a several different formulations of solid brominating tablets on the market. Many tablets use BCDMH (1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin). BCDMH adds both chlorine and bromine to the water. If excess bromide ion is in the water (say, from adding sodium bromide) or there is spent bromine in the spa (sanitizing bromine is reduced to bromide), then the chlorine from the BCDMH will simply activate (oxidize) the bromide back into sanitizing bromine (the chlorine is then converted into chloride ion).

If Dibromodimethylhydantoin (DBDMH) is used, then only sanitizing bromine is formed in the water and you would need to add a chlorine product (bleach or dichlor) to activate any spent bromide. Ozone can also oxidize bromide back into bromine. MPS is slower at oxidizing bromide into bromine but it can be used. However, if one uses MPS, it can interfere with the standard DPD halogen test chemicals and confuse the results. Thus, you typically want to avoid regularly using MPS for activation purposes.

If they are BCDMH tablets, then no additional oxidizer is needed (no MPS). You simply fill the floater and adjust the opening to achieve a stable Br level. Just note that bromine floaters are not very accurate/reliable devices. At first you might get the right opening setting and then find a few days later that it’s not keeping up. You could wind up chasing your tail a lot with it. An ozonator on the spa helps to keep a more consistent Br level but they are notorious on hot tubs for being unreliable as they are usually low-end, cheap units with poor output.

Just keep an eye on your pH and TA because you don’t want those to crash on you. If the water turns yellow/brown color, that’s an indication of very acidic water conditions in brominated water

The CYA is not going to affect bromine. Theoretically, high CYA levels could slow down the conversion of bromide into bromine because the CYA would make the hypochlorous acid (HOCl) levels a lot lower, but that would be really hard to see....and you'd need very high levels of CYA. SO if you're using dichlor to activate bromide back into bromine, that's fine. Just know that with a bromine tub, you'll probably want to be very strict on dumping the tub every 3 months or so to make sure the water is fresh. As long as you keep the tub plumbing properly purged (use Ahh-some) and the chemistry in line, using bromine shouldn't be too hard.

As a side note, I would not use the MPS very regularly. MPS can activate bromine BUT it also adds a lot of sulfates to the water and sulfates will attack the metal in your tub heater faster than chlorides will. So regular and frequent use of MPS can have significant downsides for your hot tub's heater.

Chlorine is used as the oxidizer to convert bromide ion (Br-) to sanitizing hypobromous acid (HOBr). When the chlorine oxidizes the bromide it gets reduced to chloride ion (Cl-), basically salt. So the use of chlorine is not significant. As long as the bromide ion concentration is larger than the amount of chlorine added, there will be no chlorine in the water after a very short period of time. This happens because the conversion of bromide to bromine is an extremely fast chemical reaction and it goes totally to completion. This is why a bromide “bank” of 30ppm is suggested - that is a lot more bromide ion as compared to a few ppm of chlorine.

The only way to not use chlorine is to use a different oxidizer. Ozone is typically added to a hot tub by a corona discharge ozone generator. However, those devices are typically very inefficient and don’t last long. There’s also no indication when they fail so a tub owner will not know right away that the unit is not working.

Potassium monopersulfate (MPS) is another oxidant but it is slow to convert bromide to bromine. It is quite acidic and leaves sulfates behind as a by product. Sulfates are typically more damaging to metal tub components than chlorides especially if the pH gets too low.

The best way to convert bromide to bromine is to use regular, unscented laundry bleach as it is sodium hypochlorite and the only excess it adds is a little bit of salt. Liquid chlorine itself has a slightly basic effect on water and mildly raises pH. That is easily overcome with a little bit of muriatic acid.

And there you have it folks happy tubbing

I don’t even know if Heisenberg would understand this, lol