Here we go again.......friggin' savior's of the earth!

[Iron Horse Racing]

People are to blame....that cant be disputed..the global population is ever expanding and we keep moving into area's for a variety of reasons ....it's still a small percentage of the population that ever get out into the back country by any means....so whats the problem whats changed .....as the population grows that same 5% just keeps getting to be more and more people, then there's industry, logging, oil and gas exploration....add that to recreation and yes we the people are pushing the animals around......

Then along comes the well meaning (again) people and decide that we should cull, relocate, tag some species for any number of reasons and I think we usually get it wrong or just go to far and once the balance is off, it just throws the hole cycle off and it becomes a vicious circle of trying to fix a problem that were not equipped to and that we had a huge role in creating....

Industry isn't going to stop, even if they should they have to much money and want more, so someone has to be at fault and the people trying to fix the problem that some other well meaning person created isn't going to take the blame so they look around and point.....

So how do we solve this.... oh I know everyone everywhere learns to play nice and no one wrecks anything or ever leaves anything behind in the back country, if you get to an area to go (pick one) hiking, skiing, sledding, quadding, fishing, hunting or didling and it already has a lot of people there or there's ( pick one) Caribou, Moose, Cougar, Squirrels, Spotted Owl...etc having (pick one) trouble, habitat issues, cold, bad hair day, then you go home or go some where else......

.....the more we grow the more problems there are going to be.....We are the Dominate species on this planet we created this problem and we keep making it worse trying to fix it.

There is a solution out there, .......but I really don't have a clue what it is.......

 

[deaner]

............. All it takes is someone to take the job on. I'd be happy to help anyone out with information if they choose to try and tackle this. The cat and I have years worth of experience learned the hard way we'd be happy to share. :d

I really didnt mean to come across disrespectfally. Im sorry if I did. Like I said, if it werent for the efforts of people like you we wouldnt have our current areas. I would love to meet with you guys and learn from your experiences. Im sure I could bring a bunch of fellow club members as well.

 

[team dirt]

I work closely with John Surgeoner in Kamloops and he has actually helped our club out quite a bit. His hands are tied when it comes to trying to open some of the lost areas up because if he makes that change he has 20 enviromental groups all over him. Us as sledders are an easy target and there is not 1 piece of scientific evidence that we are to blame for any decline in numbers. Our club monitors sledder numbers,wolf tracks and sightings,caribou sightings and wolf kill sights. We do this in order to keep our permit which we have to apply for annually and along with that permit are restricted to only being able to ride certain areas until mid april. It is BS that for 30 years we have road these mountains and now all of a sudden we are to blame for the demise of the stupidist animal in the world. From our experience it is not the wolves but the grizzlys that are taking out the caribou. In the late spring the caribou are calving and the grizzlys are waking up in the alpine and finding it real easy to pick on a calving caribou on nice hard packed snow. Wolves are still in the valley bottoms eating moose and white tail. We also share our mountain with heli skiers and they have zero restrictions because from what i was told is they signed there deals back in the 80s and they stand strong to date. Also a skier gliding silently through the bush is way more of a predator than a sled that the caribou hear ripping around all day. Just my 2 cents.

 

[moyiesledhead]

From our experience it is not the wolves but the grizzlys that are taking out the caribou. In the late spring the caribou are calving and the grizzlys are waking up in the alpine and finding it real easy to pick on a calving caribou on nice hard packed snow.

Yup, different predator ate different herds depending on circumstances. The common denominator is....it wasn't caused by snowmobiles.

 

[cooper]

100% agree! But in the meantime before the "big" disease or what ever is going to diminish the whole or half the human population we need to do our part to protect what animals we have.


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

WHY. the good old conservative christian bible says the animals are to be used as we see fit

 

[etecheaven]

these animals will die off even if they close every mountain in the country. There is not enough room for all the exisiting animals of the earth to co exist with humans, something has to give.

I hope when we find earth 2.0, its all mountains and snow.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

I see ungulates (caribou, deer, moose, elk, sheep, goats) around the snowmobile areas and they, generally speaking, aren't harassed. They continue to do what ungulates doo.....eat, chew their cud, look at you and continue to eat. When they get away from the sleds, it is into the bush some 25-50 meters off the trail and appear very non-challant.

Wolves on the other hand are seldom seen but they are out there in most areas. They have to eat and it is a funny thing that ungulates are on the top of their food choice; lots of protein and relatively easy prey when they decide on a meal. In the wild, they co-exist.

How many wolf tracks doo we see or document in our sledding areas? How many wolves are really out there? Maybe we should start putting the sightings/tracks into research papers as the various groups who are fighting against us doo......

Snowmobile tracks offer wolves access to threatened caribou

This is a perfect reason for having a proactive club in your area. A club can go to bat for the people in a organised manor and present a formal voice against such actions. I hope your club does this for you.

 

[catinthehat]

This is a perfect reason for having a proactive club in your area. A club can go to bat for the people in a organised manor and present a formal voice against such actions. I hope your club does this for you.

Speaking as one of those batters you refer to it does absolutely no good if your members ignore what you are doing and in the end wind up shooting you in the foot ( metaphorically speaking ). The formal voice that we need as sledders has to be one voice representing all, unfortunately we are no longer one cohesive unit in this province and therefore the old adage prevails.( united we stood but divided we are falling ). I paraphrased a little.

 

[ferniesnow]

This is a perfect reason for having a proactive club in your area. A club can go to bat for the people in a organised manor and present a formal voice against such actions. I hope your club does this for you.

I belong to two clubs; one is a BCSF and the other is an ABCSnow. Neither are in caribou territory. A club can present a formal voice but it will take a concerted effort from the provincial organizations to deal with government. That is where I am going with this thread. I want something to jump start a proposal for a paid person to research and present information on behalf of all snowmobilers in western Canada that use the BC mountains for recreational pursuits.

Ed Klim does a great job in the states as well as a few others. We have no one in Canada to present our case. Mountain snowmobilers are a minority in North America and we need to start being heard and listened to so that there will continue to be mountain riding as it is today.

 

[AprilO]

WHY. the good old conservative christian bible says the animals are to be used as we see fit

Never read it and don't care to in the least bit but it is true to a certain extent. I agree that we should fight for our snowmobiling lands but we should also try to figure out why this is happening and try to prove that it most definetly not due to snowmobilers or snowmobilers alone and the real reasons the decline in the certain animal populations. I would too agree to meet and fight the good fight to figure out what can be done. I do have some experience speaking with local politicians and trying to push certain issues and solutions (was a huge animal rights activist in my teens and early 20s ex. Seal slaughter, in humane treatment of animals, hoarders, etc) hopefully I can help you guys out as well.


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

 

[jaredszakacs]

here is an idea like deaner said lets get some new blood in there to try and fight this! there is obviously enough of us concerned I'm more than willing to throw money in for support or show up to a couple important meetings like this and i'm sure quite a few others would be loving to get involved! I sent a message to summitric saying snow and mud should put on an annual show and shine for all the toys wether it be trucks,sleds,quads,anything! it would be a great idea to get some major vendors in there and try and set something up for some fundraising to get some funds together to try and fight this. If we can make people more aware of this and i'm sure a major event like this could gather up some good info and funding for the sledders to try and fight this ongoing battle that we are clearly losing. If we nwanna save our sport we need to do it NOW!

 

[deaner]

Never read it and don't care to in the least bit but it is true to a certain extent. I agree that we should fight for our snowmobiling lands but we should also try to figure out why this is happening and try to prove that it most definetly not due to snowmobilers or snowmobilers alone and the real reasons the decline in the certain animal populations. I would too agree to meet and fight the good fight to figure out what can be done. I do have some experience speaking with local politicians and trying to push certain issues and solutions (was a huge animal rights activist in my teens and early 20s ex. Seal slaughter, in humane treatment of animals, hoarders, etc) hopefully I can help you guys out as well.


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

Should giver a try some time. Alot of good stuff in there.

Animal rights activist????? And your profile pic is of you choking a muskrat?................I dont think PETA would approve of that.

 

[deaner]

here is an idea like deaner said lets get some new blood in there to try and fight this! there is obviously enough of us concerned I'm more than willing to throw money in for support or show up to a couple important meetings like this and i'm sure quite a few others would be loving to get involved! I sent a message to summitric saying snow and mud should put on an annual show and shine for all the toys wether it be trucks,sleds,quads,anything! it would be a great idea to get some major vendors in there and try and set something up for some fundraising to get some funds together to try and fight this. If we can make people more aware of this and i'm sure a major event like this could gather up some good info and funding for the sledders to try and fight this ongoing battle that we are clearly losing. If we nwanna save our sport we need to do it NOW!

Exactly. And no disrespect towards those who have been fighting the good fight up until now. The more ideas we put forth as a group the better though. I think the big thing is finding a way to be more proactive in the media. Make the average Canadian feel that it is our right as Canadians to enjoy our back country........whether you are a snowmobiler, skier, snowshoer, or whatever. If we can influence public opinion.......the politicians will follow that whereever it goes. Not sure if we could have writers within existing newspapers writing pro-snowmobiling articles? Or do we have them written and then submit them?

 

[ferniesnow]

Maybe the new math is too blame......

The New, New Math I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter girl took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3 pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters, but she hailed the manager for help. While he tried to explain the transaction to her, she stood there and cried... Why do I tell you this? Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1960s: 1. Teaching Math In 1960s (when I was in school) A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit ? 2. Teaching Math In 1970s A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit? 3. Teaching Math In 1980s A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit ? Yes or No 4. Teaching Math In 1990s A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20. 5. Teaching Math In 2000s A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it's ok). We can end the math lesson there but the next statement is included with the joke.......and it seems there are too many pot heads in the bureaucracy controlling our destiny so I guess it all fits together somehow 6. Teaching Math In 2010 Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho? ANSWER: His profit was $375,000 because his logging business is just a front for his pot farm. ​

 

[OOC ZigZag]

I belong to two clubs; one is a BCSF and the other is an ABCSnow. Neither are in caribou territory. A club can present a formal voice but it will take a concerted effort from the provincial organizations to deal with government. That is where I am going with this thread. I want something to jump start a proposal for a paid person to research and present information on behalf of all snowmobilers in western Canada that use the BC mountains for recreational pursuits.

Ed Klim does a great job in the states as well as a few others. We have no one in Canada to present our case. Mountain snowmobilers are a minority in North America and we need to start being heard and listened to so that there will continue to be mountain riding as it is today.

North America Snowmobile Assosiation Fernie Snow Pres can I get a second on the motion.

 

[tstams]

Gronolas should just be put on an island without power,water supply or any shelter and they can live with wildlife and leave civilization alone, and then mayb 10 000 plus americans would have jobs, good job greenpeace.

 

[ferniesnow]

North America Snowmobile Assosiation Fernie Snow Pres can I get a second on the motion.

Thanks for thought Jay. I have been toe to toe with WildSight and I'm very good at it. They are polished and poised (sort of) but full of lies and twisted facts for their agenda.

I can't discuss or debate without getting upset and that causes me not to be able to think fast enough on my feet.

There is a land use dude in Lethbridge and he is slowly getting into the issues in the eastern Kootenays. He is used to confrontation and rebuttal regarding some else's facts. I'm thinking he is more into the quadding aspects but that in itself would be a bigger fight to keep those areas open.

I'm available for helping and getting things started but the Pres.....no way!

 

[team dirt]

Here is some lincs to the kind of people we are fighting against. These leaf lickers seem to have all the money and conections needed to keep voicing there biased opinions. If it was up to them they would have all the backcountry shutdown and turned into parks.
Land Use Plan | Shuswap Environmental Action Society
Caribou protection plan falls short | Shuswap Environmental Action Society
How do we battle with people that seem to have unlimited recources and time available to them.

 

[OOC ZigZag]

Thanks for thought Jay. I have been toe to toe with WildSight and I'm very good at it. They are polished and poised (sort of) but full of lies and twisted facts for their agenda.

I can't discuss or debate without getting upset and that causes me not to be able to think fast enough on my feet.

There is a land use dude in Lethbridge and he is slowly getting into the issues in the eastern Kootenays. He is used to confrontation and rebuttal regarding some else's facts. I'm thinking he is more into the quadding aspects but that in itself would be a bigger fight to keep those areas open.

I'm available for helping and getting things started but the Pres.....no way!

Just thought you would be great representation.:d

 

[MOMMA]

Never read it and don't care to in the least bit but it is true to a certain extent. I agree that we should fight for our snowmobiling lands but we should also try to figure out why this is happening and try to prove that it most definetly not due to snowmobilers or snowmobilers alone and the real reasons the decline in the certain animal populations. I would too agree to meet and fight the good fight to figure out what can be done. I do have some experience speaking with local politicians and trying to push certain issues and solutions (was a huge animal rights activist in my teens and early 20s ex. Seal slaughter, in humane treatment of animals, hoarders, etc) hopefully I can help you guys out as well.


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

I think April brings up a good point. We are not neccesarily separate entities based upon our politcal view regarding Animal Rights. It is possible to be an animal Lover, the licker of leaves and a responsible Snowmobiler.... The villianism of sledders is strictly a political ploy to gain favor in the public eye to propel a specific agenda.... I just heard a story about caribou in a national park. There were three left.... the park peeps figured it would be a good idea to do some avalanche control via blasting... boom...bye bye bou . Caribou were in the avy path