Here we go again.......friggin' savior's of the earth!

[bigz64]

im all for saving and protecting endangered animals, but what are 15 caribou doing on the top of mountains? and why the hell is the government transplanting 40 more on top of a mountain? for $200 000.

maybe they shouldnt be there if they cant survive, im guessing food is hard to come by up there?

just like the owls that burrow in the ground...

 

[Riverjet]

Your evidence of this is....???

Any wolf, coyote interaction I've ever seen/read about ends in a dead coyote.

next time they run threw my yard... i'll try and take a pic for ya !

Do your photos show coyote and wolf DNA content? As far as I know the red wolf has both, but are only located in the south eastern USA.

 

[MOMMA]

This may help explain....

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/specie...mendations_Predator-Prey_Management_Final.pdf

Wow... that's a heck of a lot of "managing".

 

[Sledderglen]

Wolves can follow alpine ski tracks also. They dont mention that do they. Skiers are allowed in areas snowmobilers aren`t. So they are to blame as well. This was never mentioned. Snowmobilers are and will continue to be attacked by the other groups. We are a easy target. The image of snowmobile has become better over the last years but it only takes a couple of incidents to knock us back just as far as we improved. Motors and noise and the idea of polution are just a few of the reasons Its a motherhood issue. When it comes to saving anything lets get rid of those sledders they say. Lots of public support to do this rather than get rid of big business like logging and other tourism users.
Anything that will get our side of the story out there will help BUT who will the public believe Us or them? $$$$$ help but we have issues with just getting sledders buying day passes let alone helping to protect snowmobiling. Not all sledders are a negative image but there are those who cross the line. We have all seen something sometime done that wasn`t right to our sports image. Time will tell how it goes but Ferniesnow use the issue back at them that wolves can follow ski tracks as well as snowmobile tracks but ski tracks go where snowmobilers are not allowed. Parks both Provincial and National.
May help but I doubt it

 

[moyiesledhead]

I just came back inside after having to go outside and scream after reading this!

Wolves & Cougars don't leave the smorgasbord of ungulates in the trench to follow snowmobile tracks up into the South Purcells on the off chance of finding a Caribou. They're opportunistic predators and they stay where they have easy prey. Any reputable biologist....and the very few honest environmentalists that still exist....will tell you that. Unfortunately it no longer matters. We've already lost and have no one to blame but ourselves.

As the lead negotiator for the closures we agreed to in the South Purcells, myself and my co-chair continuosly tried to tell snowmobilers that if they continued to violate those closures this is exactly what would happen. For the most part we were ignored, and is the reason we quit.

It does my heart no good at all to be able to say "I told you so". In fact it makes me sick!

 

[snopro]

I just came back inside after having to go outside and scream after reading this!

Wolves & Cougars don't leave the smorgasbord of ungulates in the trench to follow snowmobile tracks up into the South Purcells on the off chance of finding a Caribou. They're opportunistic predators and they stay where they have easy prey. Any reputable biologist....and the very few honest environmentalists that still exist....will tell you that. Unfortunately it no longer matters. We've already lost and have no one to blame but ourselves.

As the lead negotiator for the closures we agreed to in the South Purcells, myself and my co-chair continuosly tried to tell snowmobilers that if they continued to violate those closures this is exactly what would happen. For the most part we were ignored, and is the reason we quit.

It does my heart no good at all to be able to say "I told you so"! In fact it makes me sick!

I've always said that snowmobilers are our own worst enemies. Sad but true.........

 

[OOC ZigZag]

This is happening. In the Cariboo region they have increased the bag limits and length of season for wolves due to livestock predation. There was also a recent call by a rancher in the Barriere BC region for an increase in the harvest rates for wolves for the same reason.

Good my point being if the ranchers are seeing it than the population is getting out of control and the predator population needs to be managed not sledder access.

 

[Sledderglen]

Good my point being if the ranchers are seeing it than the population is getting out of control and the predator population needs to be managed not sledder access.

MUCH easier to control snowmobiler access and get the public on your side rather than killing a wolf. People love wolves

 

[oler1234]

i am all for saving the animals, but seriously, let them die off. They are a stupid species and are going to fail. Its only a matter of time, we cannot play god by controlling couger and wolf populations. Its the way mother nature wants it to be. As a side note it does work both ways as in caribous can use the tracks to escape on coming predators.

Just a questions though, if they all parish.... does this mean the closures will be lifted

 

[OOC ZigZag]

MUCH easier to control snowmobiler access and get the public on your side rather than killing a wolf. People love wolves

I like elephants and wolves but sometimes their numbers need to be culled thats life. Hell man I'd be happier if we could cull the tree huggin granola crunchers and enviornmentalists their population is way out of control.

 

[Sledderglen]

I like elephants and wolves but sometimes their numbers need to be culled thats life. Hell man I'd be happier if we could cull the tree huggin granola crunchers and enviornmentalists their population is way out of control.

I hear what you say. But I`m not against us.To many of them to few of us. Way harder to get public support for killing wolves. I bet there would be more support for seisure of our sleds and a fine and jail time to a father of a family than a bounty on wolves.
We also cant just sit back and wait for the caribou to be killed off either. We have to try and get the animals to continue their fight for survival. A good attack from Wolves on a human will get some better positive public vision for a wolf cull program. Any volunteers????
No one example will totally work but unless the snowmobile industry gets together and develop some kind of a survival plan for sledders our love will be the one threatened to end.

 

[old mountain man]

There was a good article on Caribou in the Edmonton Journal on Friday. Big dollars are being spent trying to save several very small populations of doomed Caribou. Poisoning and shooting hundreds of wolves is not having the desired effect. The author notes the money would be much better spent elsewhere. One of the first rational articles I have seen on the topic. The Little Smoky herd is one of the doomed ones. Their demise is caused by predation and a lot of oil and gas development.

 

[OOC ZigZag]

There was a good article on Caribou in the Edmonton Journal on Friday. Big dollars are being spent trying to save several very small populations of doomed Caribou. Poisoning and shooting hundreds of wolves is not having the desired effect. The author notes the money would be much better spent elsewhere. One of the first rational articles I have seen on the topic. The Little Smoky herd is one of the doomed ones. Their demise is caused by predation and a lot of oil and gas development.

It is natural selection if they do die off, Industry and predator population are the main contributers not sled tracks.

 

[kjb]

Wolves can follow alpine ski tracks also. They dont mention that do they. Skiers are allowed in areas snowmobilers aren`t. So they are to blame as well. This was never mentioned.

Sorry Sledderglen but wolves don't follow alpine ski tracks. They may follow ski tracks down in the valley bottoms but they don't leave the valley bottoms where the ungulates are (thats their food source). They don't follow sled tracks up high either for the same reason, just like moyiesledhead said. Who ever wrote that article is full of ch!t to say such things. Any bioligist would agree.
It is too bad to see a few people ignore the existing closures because that will cause the feds to step in here and put blanket closures over big areas. Instead of loosing a few small areas we will lose most of our areas.

 

[MOMMA]

I hear what you say. But I`m not against us.To many of them to few of us. Way harder to get public support for killing wolves. I bet there would be more support for seisure of our sleds and a fine and jail time to a father of a family than a bounty on wolves.
We also cant just sit back and wait for the caribou to be killed off either. We have to try and get the animals to continue their fight for survival. A good attack from Wolves on a human will get some better positive public vision for a wolf cull program. Any volunteers????
No one example will totally work but unless the snowmobile industry gets together and develop some kind of a survival plan for sledders our love will be the one threatened to end.

This is my Wolf pup Koda.. he is a Timber wolf/ Arctic Wolf, malamute.. and he's spectacular.

he's pretty passive.. but if you mess with the kids or I he'll get cranky...



i have a plan.. how about we all back the heck off of nature and stop "managing" it to death.. just a thought.. no more transplanting anything. We as sledders can be responsible i figure. I don't believe we are the reason for the demise of the Caribou, although i don't have all of the "facts" from the numerous studies yada yada yada. Seems to me that we end up massively unbalancing Nature when we try to influence a predator prey cycle of existence. But again.. I'm not a biologist, just a nature lover/sledder/mom.

 

[Sledderglen]

Sorry Sledderglen but wolves don't follow alpine ski tracks. They may follow ski tracks down in the valley bottoms but they don't leave the valley bottoms where the ungulates are (thats their food source). They don't follow sled tracks up high either for the same reason, just like moyiesledhead said. Who ever wrote that article is full of ch!t to say such things. Any bioligist would agree.
It is too bad to see a few people ignore the existing closures because that will cause the feds to step in here and put blanket closures over big areas. Instead of loosing a few small areas we will lose most of our areas.

Not just mountain areas are being affected by sled use and caribous. Grande Cache,Little Smoky area are areas of threatened Caribou habitat in Alberta. lots of other areas also.

Biologists don`t have to agree. Statements can be made and someone will agree and PUBLIC PRESSURE will do the work. Truth sometimes has little effect on what and who makes the rules.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Just a questions though, if they all parish.... does this mean the closures will be lifted

Of course not. We tryed to get the "other side" to agree to that, but they wouldn't. That's why we only agreed to voluntary closures. When asked why not for the hundredth time a certain local environmentalist finally said what I knew all along...."I might find some other reason to close it." It's not about Caribou, it's about keeping us out of the mountains. Caribou are just a "species of convenience". Go further south in the same mountain range and it's Grizzly bears.

I find it ironic that the latest concern for Caribou in the South Purcells is the ficticious claim that wolves are following sled tracks. When the Caribou herd went through it's major decline in the 1980's and 1990's it was due to predation by Cougars....IN THE SUMMER. A 6 year radio collar study in the 1990's by Sylvan Consulting found zero Caribou mortality between December and May. There were no wolves here then. They were re-introduced later. Gee, wasn't that a great idea! So now we need to kill not only wolves and cougars to protect the Caribou, but the ungulates they feed on as well. Check out the new open season on moose in the East Kootenays. The only areas that are open are directly adjacent to Caribou habitat. We're murdering at least 3 species to save one relic species.....all with your tax dollars!

It gets better. The native band from Deese Lake where the donor animals are coming from would only agree to let them go if we do predator control here, but the local native band here would only agree to the translocation if we "don't" do predator control!
It's absolutely sickening! I have to go outside and scream again!

 

[MOMMA]

Of course not. We tryed to get the "other side" to agree to that, but they wouldn't. That's why we only agreed to voluntary closures. When asked why not for the hundredth time a certain local environmentalist finally said what I knew all along...."I might find some other reason to close it." It's not about Caribou, it's about keeping us out of the mountains. Caribou are just a "species of convenience". Go further south in the same mountain range and it's Grizzly bears.

I find it ironic that the latest concern for Caribou in the South Purcells is the ficticious claim that wolves are following sled tracks. When the Caribou herd went through it's major decline in the 1980's and 1990's it was due to predation by Cougars....IN THE SUMMER. A 6 year radio collar study in the 1990's by Sylvan Consulting found zero Caribou mortality between December and May. There were no wolves here then. They were re-introduced later. Gee, wasn't that a great idea! So now we need to kill not only wolves and cougars to protect the Caribou, but the ungulates they feed on as well. Check out the new open season on moose in the East Kootenays. The only areas that are open are directly adjacent to Caribou habitat. We're murdering at least 3 species to save one relic species.....all with your tax dollars!

It gets better. The native band from Deese Lake where the donor animals are coming from would only agree to let them go if we do predator control here, but the local native band here would only agree to the translocation if we "don't" do predator control!
It's absolutely sickening! I have to go outside and scream again!

Holy wow.. around and around... makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Mike270412]

i am all for saving the animals, but seriously, let them die off. They are a stupid species and are going to fail. Its only a matter of time, we cannot play god by controlling couger and wolf populations. Its the way mother nature wants it to be. As a side note it does work both ways as in caribous can use the tracks to escape on coming predators.

Just a questions though, if they all parish.... does this mean the closures will be lifted

I agree

 

[ferniesnow]

Holy wow.. around and around... makes no sense to me at all.

If you really look at the workings of government, does any of it make any sense?

If you look at the medical aspect, educational aspect, environmental aspect, even the registration or non-registration of OHV's, and I could could probably fill many more lines of utter non-sensicale concepts that the governments can't handle.

I read an article this morning (another thread I started as it is about pipelines and other interesting thoughts) and we should or the collective union (I hate that word) of OHV-users should hire Jon Ferry, (Vancouver Province) to voice our opinions and present our research. Mind you this is only one article and I am not that knowledgable about all of his philosophies but makes for interesting reading.

The environmental movement has a mission, vast funding, and most of all, the sympathy of the younger generation. I am glad I'm an old fart and can still doo what I doo.

I'll now join moysiesledhead and go outside and scream!