Has anyone upgraded their gas meter for more capacity?

[ABMax24]

So we're in the process of buying a new house, and for various reasons have decided to go with a natural gas stove and natural gas dryer. Now adding up the consumption of all appliances I come up with 454,000 BTU/h (tankless hot water, furnace, gas fireplace, stove and dryer).

Now with what I can find online the ATCO meter on the house will be 450 cf/h or roughly 450,000 BTU/h capacity, not to mention the fact that the 1" gas line isn't going to be big enough to meet code, we will need 1-1/4" to meet code with the lengths that need to be run, and of course gas meter is 1" outlet. And this still doesn't leave room for the gas furnace for the garage or gas BBQ we'd like to add later.

Has anyone run into this before and know the costs associated with upgrading if it's even required? Or if I can size up to 1-1/4" after the meter? I doubt this is allowed.

 

[new_nytro]

I just had a similar problem. You can T in another line as long as its within a couple of feet from the meter to run a second line if you have capacity issues. For me access to the existing line to go larger was difficult due to finished basement ceilings. In my case to add the garage furnace I had to add a T just after the meter and then each line has its own capacity rating.

I would think they could put coupler at the meter to go to 1.25" as well without having to change the meter. I now have a 1" line coming off the meter with a 3/4" T right after the meter. The limiting factor is usually not the meter, it's usually the length of run that is the limiting factor.

 

[ABMax24]

I just had a similar problem. You can T in another line as long as its within a couple of feet from the meter to run a second line if you have capacity issues. For me access to the existing line to go larger was difficult due to finished basement ceilings. In my case to add the garage furnace I had to add a T just after the meter and then each line has its own capacity rating.

I would think they could put coupler at the meter to go to 1.25" as well without having to change the meter. I now have a 1" line coming off the meter with a 3/4" T right after the meter. The limiting factor is usually not the meter, it's usually the length of run that is the limiting factor.

This is exactly what I was hoping I could do, however when I called the local gas inspector he said most people failed because of improperly sized gas lines so I decided to double check the sizing I wanted to run and sure enough it needs to be bigger than the existing 1" to meet code. My problem is that if i add a garage heater and gas BBQ I'll be in the 550,000 to 600,000 BTU range with 60' to the furthest appliance making 1-1/4" piping the minimum to meet code at least until the hot water heater and furnace tee off.

Changing the piping in the house for me isn't a big deal, it's only about 10' that would need to be upgraded, and since it's an unfinished basement it's easier to do. It's ATCO that I really don't want to have to deal with, I can only imagine how much more per month they would want if i needed a bigger meter on the house, but by the sounds of it hopefully I won't need it.

Do you know how many total BTU's or cf/h you are drawing at your place?

 

[Cyle]

Ting in close to the meter isn't going to increase the amount of gas getting to that meter nor the amount you can draw off it, and if you're trying to draw too much you're going to have appliances trying to suck gas out of the line, the amount of pressure in the line coming in would be a factor too. There is obviously a difference between keeping Atco happy and realistically what it will provide, like how much you plan to have most, or everything running and actually be drawing that much. No idea if there is a point where they charge extra, but IIRC my meter and line were done for around 550k btu's and wasn't charged anything extra. I wouldn't want to be paying for a new line to be put in you will get sticker shock new line can be $5-7k. I mean in the summer I know my garage heater isn't going to be running nor my fireplace, and in the dead of winter I sure ain't going to be using the BBQ. Most of the time the sizing is overkill.

 

[ABMax24]

Ting in close to the meter isn't going to increase the amount of gas getting to that meter nor the amount you can draw off it, and if you're trying to draw too much you're going to have appliances trying to suck gas out of the line, the amount of pressure in the line coming in would be a factor too. There is obviously a difference between keeping Atco happy and realistically what it will provide, like how much you plan to have most, or everything running and actually be drawing that much. No idea if there is a point where they charge extra, but IIRC my meter and line were done for around 550k btu's and wasn't charged anything extra. I wouldn't want to be paying for a new line to be put in you will get sticker shock new line can be $5-7k. I mean in the summer I know my garage heater isn't going to be running nor my fireplace, and in the dead of winter I sure ain't going to be using the BBQ. Most of the time the sizing is overkill.

What I'm hoping can be done assuming I need a new meter is just upgrade the meter itself and install larger piping from there to the appliances in the house. Right before the meter is the regulator so as long as the gas feed the regulator is at a higher pressure than what is used in the house it should be sized large enough. But sounds like this is something that ATCO will have to determine for me. Obviously if i need to run a larger line to the house the stove and dryer will become electric instead.

I know what you are saying about everything not being on at once being a factor too, although I definitely see a chance in the winter when most of the large appliances could be on at once.

 

[new_nytro]

This is exactly what I was hoping I could do, however when I called the local gas inspector he said most people failed because of improperly sized gas lines so I decided to double check the sizing I wanted to run and sure enough it needs to be bigger than the existing 1" to meet code. My problem is that if i add a garage heater and gas BBQ I'll be in the 550,000 to 600,000 BTU range with 60' to the furthest appliance making 1-1/4" piping the minimum to meet code at least until the hot water heater and furnace tee off.

Changing the piping in the house for me isn't a big deal, it's only about 10' that would need to be upgraded, and since it's an unfinished basement it's easier to do. It's ATCO that I really don't want to have to deal with, I can only imagine how much more per month they would want if i needed a bigger meter on the house, but by the sounds of it hopefully I won't need it.

Do you know how many total BTU's or cf/h you are drawing at your place?

I have about 400k btu now on 250cf meter (furnace 1 at 132k, furnace 2 at 80k, fireplace at 32k, hw tank at 50k, bbq at 50k on 1" line plus 45k garage furnace and 50k fire table on 3/4" line). I had no issues with the inspection nor any issues with the appliances. It was all done by a certified gas fitter and inspected by city of Calgary inspector.

You might need a higher capacity meter for 600k btu. Your gas fitter would know for sure. I am not sure if Atco charges more meter upgrades or not.

 

[ABMax24]

I have about 400k btu now on 250cf meter (furnace 1 at 132k, furnace 2 at 80k, fireplace at 32k, hw tank at 50k, bbq at 50k on 1" line plus 45k garage furnace and 50k fire table on 3/4" line). I had no issues with the inspection nor any issues with the appliances. It was all done by a certified gas fitter and inspected by city of Calgary inspector.

You might need a higher capacity meter for 600k btu. Your gas fitter would know for sure. I am not sure if Atco charges more meter upgrades or not.

Ok that's definitely less than I will have, my kicker is the 200,000 BTU tankless hotwater heater in the house, otherwise I think I'd be fine.

I'll get a hold of ATCO and possibly a gas-fittter tomorrow and see what their thoughts are, I do plan on doing the work myself but hopefully they can offer some insight.

 

[new_nytro]

In Calgary it has to be a licensed gas fitter to do it. You cannot get a permit to do it yourself (even the venting). The city inspector also did an air test for at least 24 hours to ensure no leaks as well before you could hook it up.

 

[ABMax24]

In Calgary it has to be a licensed gas fitter to do it. You cannot get a permit to do it yourself (even the venting). The city inspector also did an air test for at least 24 hours to ensure no leaks as well before you could hook it up.

In Grande Prairie you can pull the gas permit as a homeowner as long as it is your own residence. I called the inspector and the pressure test is also the responsibility of the installer, they're there basically to ensure sizing is correct and code has been followed after everything is hooked up and the gas turned back on. I'm a pipefitter by trade so the actual install of the piping and pressure testing is no big deal to me.

 

[mareshow]

I do this sort of stuff all the time, Atco will install a high capacity meter (Its basically free, i think a $200 service fee maybe?) unless you're going to 2# then its a bit more ($1600 for residential i think?) As long as your second branch to feed the new stuff is within a few feet of the meter you'll be fine, and to repipe the four feet in 1 1/2 or 1 1/4 wouldnt be hard just make sure you have a swing joint. If you do that they shouldnt give you too much fuss, if you're doing it yourself, to run a could extra lines isnt hard as black steel pipe is very cheap.

 

[ABMax24]

So I did talk to ATCO about this today, the existing meter is 250 CFH with 1" outlet, they are usually sized for 350k to 400k BTU capacity. ATCO however uses what they call a diversity factor which basically assumes that not all appliances will be on at the same time which allows for more installed capacity in the house than the meter can provide. So from what information they gave me that 250 CFH meter would be borderline of being big enough. I then asked if I could upsize to 1-1/4" pipe after the meter, he responded no but said the next size up meter (400 CFH) was 1-1/4" outlet and that they could come install it for me, and would be enough for what we require. There is no charge for the upgrade but they will not connect the meter to the house system and it's my responsibility to have reconnected, which is fine as I will re-pipe it all anyway.