"Green" energy. Not so green.

[ABMax24]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

Makes fossil fuels look like clean energy.....lol.

Alternates are still about how to make$$$$ with clean perception.....but that is where the clean part ends.
Man has not found clean energy yet, we just need to get as clean as possible.
I would rather deal with carbon plants can use over heavy metal leeching issues.
Especially when water vapor is the fastest increasing GHG.
Wonder what the % of the atmosphere is Co....lol.
And what %of that is affect by Canada.......

Don't go lookin X-it, you will find the truth , again

So there are no heavy metals brought up during production in oil or gas wells? They don't have to be disposed of? When coal is burned it doesn't release mercury?

 

[5Lgreenback]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

You are a patient man ABMax24.

 

[Caper11]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

I think you’re forgetting the part about the solar panel generating clean electricity for 25 years.

No. Solar panels do not produce clean energy. Look at the logistics that takes to make that tech. Its smoke in mirrors, always has been. In order for those systems to work, there has to be a total disconnect from the grid.
Watch the vid that the OP posted.

 

[ABMax24]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

No. Solar panels do not produce clean energy. Look at the logistics that takes to make that tech. Its smoke in mirrors, always has been. In order for those systems to work, there has to be a total disconnect from the grid.
Watch the vid that the OP posted.

As has been stated many times here and elsewhere that video took snippets of interviews to achieve an end goal of Michael Moore.

What logic do you subscribe to that a solar system can make a profit over it's life, yet it took more energy to manufacture it than it produced? How is it that the manufacturer purchased the energy to build the panel at a fraction of the cost the energy the panels make sell for?

 

[Bnorth]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

There are some questions i would like answered


1. What is in that lake that has grown so large it can be seen from space and how toxic is it?
2. How many people died along the river and what concentration did it take to kill them and what are the dying from?
3. When in ends up in the ocean is it water soluble, will it rain that toxic waste sh!t. What concentration in the sea food will it take to kill people?
4. That half dump truck load of toxic waste sitting on your roof what's your plan for getting rid of it?
5. How much of this toxic waste is in our land fill already and is it leaching into our drinking water?

If we're good to burn fossil fuels then we should be good to burn the old solar panels too right?

 

[X-it]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

If we're good to burn fossil fuels then we should be good to burn the old solar panels too right?

This lake is not the solar panels, this is the toxic soup that is left over from making all this green crap. Not sure what type of stuff gases off from burning the panels. Had i kept my mineral claims in the seebach i would have been knee deep in the rare earth minerals, maybe rich by now. Not sure the process the use for making all this stuff, i think we have lost all that knowledge years ago

 

[X-it]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

Maybe a firefighter can chirp in, they must have some knowledge of burning solar panels.

 

[Caper11]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

As has been stated many times here and elsewhere that video took snippets of interviews to achieve an end goal of Michael Moore.

What logic do you subscribe to that a solar system can make a profit over it's life, yet it took more energy to manufacture it than it produced? How is it that the manufacturer purchased the energy to build the panel at a fraction of the cost the energy the panels make sell for?

As has been stated many times here and elsewhere that video took snippets of interviews to achieve an end goal of Michael Moore.

What logic do you subscribe to that a solar system can make a profit over it's life, yet it took more energy to manufacture it than it produced? How is it that the manufacturer purchased the energy to build the panel at a fraction of the cost the energy the panels make sell for?

Its the reality of it, materials mined and gathered using fossil fuel burning equipment.
Lets look at the efficiency of the panel, even if the panel was the claimed 8%, dunno if it is or it isnt. Over its lifetime it still would not replace or even possibly pay for itself.
Look at the batteries for storage, they also are part of the problem and the equation, they get less efficient with age.

If there is a company willing to install a system on my house, with a contract saying that I do not have to pay for it until the savings I received from it, exceeds the install price. Im game to talk.

 

[doorfx]

"Green" energy. Not so green.

@caper11

Why would you need batteries?

 

[Cdnfireman]

I’ve had someone ask me about burning solar panels. Typically, the things that solar panels are constructed of don’t support combustion but can when subjected to high enough temperatures burn. The glass and aluminum In the frames will typically melt, puddle then solidify when their temperatures drop. The semiconductor/PV cell materials contain the heavy metals that probably are what is concerning people. I’m no expert on the combination of heavy metals that make up a PV cell, but generally speaking, given enough time and temperatures, the semiconductor substrates can decompose with heat, and the resultant Residues can certainly be carried in the smoke plume as particulate matter and carried via runoff into surrounding soils, groundwater etc. In that regard they’re no different than any other particulates produced by a fire, but obviously the amount and concentration of any heavy/toxic metals might be a concern.
The above is assuming that we’re talking about a structure fire with solar panels present. If you’re wondering about burning them in an incinerator for disposal purposes, that’s outside my expertise.

 

[Caper11]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

@caper11

Why would you need batteries?

What’s going to power a house in Alberta on low sun days??? Still going to pull off the grid??? Sounds counter intuitive if a person wants to go green, and go 100% solar to avoid using fossil fuels.

 

[snopro]

Re: "Green" energy. Not so green.

This is the issue with the green agenda Matt. Get rid of dirty oil and gas but when its snowing and calm and -30 then turn up the natural gas again.

 

[snopro]

How is it hypocritical, how can you make something using energy with any other source of energy other than oil, gas and coal if those other sources haven't been built yet? Horses at one point hauled parts to the Ford factory to make Model T's, does that mean that was hypocritical too?

Cars are built with over 3000 lbs of materials, including plastics, aluminum, steel, rubber, lead, copper, and various other materials, this has never been an issue in the over 100 years vehicles have been on the roads. Why is it all of a sudden an issue when 100 lbs of metals like lithium and cobalt are now being incorporated into batteries for these same cars?

I'd also suggest that "expert" find a new career. California has already exceeded 30% of it's electricity from renewable sources and is headed to 50%.

Hmmmmm...expert find a new career? I guess when I hear you on the radio getting interviewed from thousands of miles away on my local media outlet I'll start taking you seriously. How about that?

 

[jhurkot]

The economics of solar are RAPIDLY improving. The system I plan on building soon (after I finish in crop spraying) will pay for itself in 10 years. Will probably start as a grid tied system because I think a big battery tech improvement is near. Think of it this way, a single 400watt solar module will generate 508 kWh of energy for one calendar year (Jan1-Dec31). If you use this energy yourself you are saving $0.20/kWh. If you sell it to the grid you will get $0.08. Lets just make it easy and say that you're going to use half and sell half of what this one module produces for an average price of $0.14. $0.14 per kWh x 508 kWh = $71.12

The cost of this 400watt system is probably about $1.30ish per watt (module/inverter/racking/wiring). Lets just say $2.00/watt for a total of $800. $800/$71 = 11.2 years.
If you use all of the power your solar makes without selling to the grid then this number is smaller.
If you sell all the power your solar makes to the grid then this number is larger.
If you use this solar energy to power an electric vehicle and displace gasoline this number is MUCH MUCH smaller.

The numbers don't lie and have no politics or emotion involved.

 

[Caper11]

That is not even close to being green.

Your example, you say that will take 10years to pay for itself for a 400w panel?
My house bill averages your 508kwh per month of usage and your talking thats a year for 1, 400w panel?

With that setup, your still connected to the grid, still paying the fees etc. Your contribution to the grid is less than a pin prick.


I have a 180w or 200w(can’t remember what it is at the moment) on the roof of my trailer, I know what it takes for amps to charge my batteries fully, that panel will not produce the amps for the hours needed to charge the batteries.

 

[rsaint]

The economics of solar are RAPIDLY improving. The system I plan on building soon (after I finish in crop spraying) will pay for itself in 10 years. Will probably start as a grid tied system because I think a big battery tech improvement is near. Think of it this way, a single 400watt solar module will generate 508 kWh of energy for one calendar year (Jan1-Dec31). If you use this energy yourself you are saving $0.20/kWh. If you sell it to the grid you will get $0.08. Lets just make it easy and say that you're going to use half and sell half of what this one module produces for an average price of $0.14. $0.14 per kWh x 508 kWh = $71

The cost of this 400watt system is probably about $1.30ish per watt (module/inverter/racking/wiring). Lets just say $2.00/watt for a total of $800. $800/$71 = 11.2 years.
If you use all of the power your solar makes without selling to the grid then this number is smaller.
If you sell all the power your solar makes to the grid then this number is larger.
If you use this solar energy to power an electric vehicle and displace gasoline this number is MUCH MUCH smaller.

The numbers don't lie and have no politics or emotion involved.

20 cents per kilowatt ???

 

[X-it]

Bc hydro is charging .0945 per kilowatt. Hopefully they don't put in anymore of these expensive solar farms that produce bugger all when we are in stage 3 power shortage. You want to put in your own system great that is what this country is all about, getting grants and making it someone else's problem disposing of them is were i draw the line.

 

[snochuk]

That is not even close to being green.

Your example, you say that will take 10years to pay for itself for a 400w panel?
My house bill averages your 508kwh per month of usage and your talking thats a year for 1, 400w panel?

With that setup, your still connected to the grid, still paying the fees etc. Your contribution to the grid is less than a pin prick.


I have a 180w or 200w(can’t remember what it is at the moment) on the roof of my trailer, I know what it takes for amps to charge my batteries fully, that panel will not produce the amps for the hours needed to charge the batteries.

Haha you are trying to argue a point and win with green agenda people, let me know haw that turn out.
You will never ever get one to admit the dirty side of equipment production and recycling and how badly it factors into CLEAN.
It is like trying to discuss what a helicopter burns with a heliskier.

 

[Caper11]

Haha you are trying to argue a point and win with green agenda people, let me know haw that turn out.
You will never ever get one to admit the dirty side of equipment production and recycling and how badly it factors into CLEAN.
It is like trying to discuss what a helicopter burns with a heliskier.

Your right. Lol

 

[tejay]

Haha you are trying to argue a point and win with green agenda people, let me know haw that turn out.
You will never ever get one to admit the dirty side of equipment production and recycling and how badly it factors into CLEAN.
It is like trying to discuss what a helicopter burns with a heliskier.

I was talking with a local heliski guide that had a guest complain about a styrofoam coffee cup and he replied ummm you’re riding in a jet fuel helicopter- oh ya ,silence