Government to cash in on Revy tragedy.

[MrMorgan]

Could SAR be tied to health care costs? If you smoke, or hang glide, or even sled, and you are injured as a result, your health care premiums could be raised. This would be similar to insurance programs that remove your "no claims" discount and raise your rates.

As for avy training being part of the licensing, that sounds reasonable. The problem with that, and any trail pass increases, is enforcement. There is no means to enforce this, period. In addition, this will increase the number of riders who avoid the toll booth and punch new trails into the alpine. This could have very adverse effects for all riders. Don't forget about the MWs out there. We are challenged by more than one type of opponent.

I like the idea of a proactive approach. Find a proposed remedy that we can all live with and take it to the table. The alternative is waiting to see what is rammed down our throat.


Just a thought...

 

[powder junkie]

This has been a long time coming in my opinion. We as sledders have to figure out a way to pay for the heli-vacs!! The cost of rescuing us should not be part of normal peoples taxes!! We put ourselves at risk, not the school teacher down the road who warms up before golfing and struggles with a mortgage!!
We as mountain sledder push the limits because it makes us tick, i cant live without it, but my nieghbors are paying for the rescue missions to save my friends lives, why? If you can afford this sport then you can afford to pony up some dough to pay for a chopper to save your buddies or your life!!
If you have to save up for a beacon take up a different sport this ones out of your means!!
And that goes double for extreme river boating!! I hate hearing about a rescue for those guys cause i cant afford one yet!!!

just cause sumone might have a hard time saving up 200 or 300 or 500 for a beacon does NOT mean they cant enjoy sledding and mountain riding. lets be fair about this.

 

[snochuk]

This has been a long time coming in my opinion. We as sledders have to figure out a way to pay for the heli-vacs!! The cost of rescuing us should not be part of normal peoples taxes!! We put ourselves at risk, not the school teacher down the road who warms up before golfing and struggles with a mortgage!!
We as mountain sledder push the limits because it makes us tick, i cant live without it, but my nieghbors are paying for the rescue missions to save my friends lives, why? If you can afford this sport then you can afford to pony up some dough to pay for a chopper to save your buddies or your life!!
If you have to save up for a beacon take up a different sport this ones out of your means!!
And that goes double for extreme river boating!! I hate hearing about a rescue for those guys cause i cant afford one yet!!!

I pay taxes yet I have never been on welfare, only collected pogy when I was an apprentice in school 26 years back and in 14 years at my old house only had my street ploughed once! I think I've already paid for a rescue but I'll just let some one else use it!:d

 

[Steve D]

Maybe the government could erect signs with the avy rating for the area at the staging area or even along the highway the same as fire hazard conditions.
People could'nt plead ignorance anymore. Put a blurb at the bottom that if you're not sure what this means, please take an avy course. Local avy trainers could sponsor a sign to keep it up to date and be allowed to place a name and contact number. They could also post an add-on notifying sledders when training is happening in the area and to stop by and see what it's about.
Insurance money will only go to the insurance co's.
Add the number of recent incidents for the area when the numbers are high to really let users know the area is risky.

You know, the BCSF could be doing this kind of thing as well. In Houston, at the trail head to the most popular area, all winter this year there's been a guy sitting there collecting trail fees. When he puts his sign out in front of his truck, he could have another with the avy rating right there too. Not that we got the kind of mountains that Revy does, but I'm sure we aren't the only ones paying a toll-booth style trail fee if we don't have a membership, right?

 

[jon]

hey i am not sure how this works or even if it is valid in canada, even tho i paid for it, but apparently when i activated my spot tracker i purchased a g.e.o.s plan it seems that they cover a lot of rescue expenses, i will call the company and confirm.

heres the link, read it and tell me how you take it.

GEOS Member Rescue Benefit

 

[2003Summit]

As far as I'm concerned, you have to pay to play. But there is more than one way to do this.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think money from off road vehicle registration in Ontario and Quebec is directed to the sport. Here in alberta and in BC it just goes into the governments general vehicle pot, so they are getting a lest some money that way. Plus there is very considerable road tax on all the fuel we burn (and we burn a fair bit of it) that does not go to the sport as it probably should. As a former sled club president one of our pet peeves was that as a riding area or trail manager you cannot require sleds to be registered to use your trail/area and the second thing was that we could not access the revenue from registration & fuel tax like they do over there.

Second, if you smash up your car and get hurt, who pays for that? I think your insurance company does, and if you don't have insurance for the towing, damage to property and and all the other things you pay it out of your pocket. So I guess everyone that had a sled extracted should get a bill that your insurance company will pay if we are talking all fairness here.

And I don't know if there is one, but someone should really start providing chopper insurance. So you could buy it for lets say $30 a day or something if you wanted it - otherwise you pay it yourself.

Economic development in the local riding areas should also contribute funding to rescue services (they probably do some, but maybe they need to do more), or maybe it needs to come a bit from property taxes and such, which would translate into higher hotel/food/gas fee's etc which would get paid by the users (which is fair).

I don't believe it should be burdened on the general public as this just gets people mad at us and will go a long way to helping get the sport shut down.

Yes, I think we need some evolution here.

 

[DooTraxx]

I don't understand this thinking, how can you say it doesn't do anything for safety but hinders it instead....

I'm all for licensing and insurance. It shouldn't be any different than having auto insurance and registration. What cracks me up is the whiners that can run out and buy a new sled worth $10,000 + or the more money than brains fool that spends 20 - 40,000 grand on a sled that is crying about a $100-300 a year insurance policy to protect themselves and others.

It's not the answer to save every life out there, but combined with proper survival equipment, proper training, reading and understanding the warnings whether it be CAC bulletins or what you physically see when sledding and a host of other factors including the not so ' common sense ' it reduces the risks invovled significantly. Everything we do has a risk factor and some are going to die.

Say what you want, but I'm guessing that if you think having insurance, registration and a license are hindering safety, your probably the same type of person who thinks drinking and driving or riding is OK, and probably think wearing a helmet isn't cool too!!!!!

This is retarded to me. How is having a license and insurance going to make riding the back country any safer. If everyone on Boulder that day had a license and insurance the outcome would have been exactly the same. Another government tax grab would not have changed anything. You might enjoy giving your money to the government but I definately do not.

 

[ferniesnow]

Originally Posted by mac900rmk
Maybe the government could erect signs with the avy rating for the area at the staging area or even along the highway the same as fire hazard conditions.
People could'nt plead ignorance anymore. Put a blurb at the bottom that if you're not sure what this means, please take an avy course. Local avy trainers could sponsor a sign to keep it up to date and be allowed to place a name and contact number. They could also post an add-on notifying sledders when training is happening in the area and to stop by and see what it's about.
Insurance money will only go to the insurance co's.
Add the number of recent incidents for the area when the numbers are high to really let users know the area is risky.

You know, the BCSF could be doing this kind of thing as well. In Houston, at the trail head to the most popular area, all winter this year there's been a guy sitting there collecting trail fees. When he puts his sign out in front of his truck, he could have another with the avy rating right there too. Not that we got the kind of mountains that Revy does, but I'm sure we aren't the only ones paying a toll-booth style trail fee if we don't have a membership, right?

Pro-active clubs do this already; avalanache rating signs erected (on the highway or staging areas) and monitored by local clubs, applicable CAC bulletins at staging areas, hotels, gas stations, and restaurants. Special signs are even erected when the warnings reach the "extreme level".

Not that I want to bash the BCSF, but their pretty busy doing what they do already. My experience has shown me that it is better to do this at the club level.

Trail passes and trail permits are two different things; trail passes are issued by clubs for groomed trails and trail permits are issued by the BCSF for membership. The trail permit funds go directly to the BCSF to run the organization as the executive sees fit. We may or may not agree with what they do with the monies.

Local clubs raise funds to maintain trails and warm-up shelters/cabins, and most of the progressive clubs have groomers that eat up a lot of money. The clubs are on their own to come up with creative ways to balance the books through corporate sponsors, maps, fund raisers, membership fees, trail passes, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is that everyone can do a part and we as a snowmobile group are doing our part better but there is still room for improvement.

 

[Summiteer]

This opening another can of worms, but since it's open...........

We have always insured our quads, boats, and sleds. MY reason for doing so, is if I have a burp, and someone else is involved, I do not want to loose everything that I have worked for, when that individual, or thier insurance company, sues me.
The trail systems in and out of riding areas are busy. Chit happens.
Like everything else, this is mitigating risk. It scares me to think that if i'm involved in a multiple snowmobile crash on a trail, and the other party or parties invloved don't have insurance, my insurance companies legal team is going to have a frickin field day. But hey, that's the choice they made right.
Read it how ever you want. TO ME - Not having your equipment registered and insured is like mountain riding without a beacon.

Well said...... If you can't afford the insurance and registration, you can't afford the sport.

 

[bbtoys]

Pro-active clubs do this already; avalanache rating signs erected (on the highway or staging areas) and monitored by local clubs, applicable CAC bulletins at staging areas, hotels, gas stations, and restaurants. Special signs are even erected when the warnings reach the "extreme level".

Not that I want to bash the BCSF, but their pretty busy doing what they do already. My experience has shown me that it is better to do this at the club level.

Trail passes and trail permits are two different things; trail passes are issued by clubs for groomed trails and trail permits are issued by the BCSF for membership. The trail permit funds go directly to the BCSF to run the organization as the executive sees fit. We may or may not agree with what they do with the monies.

Local clubs raise funds to maintain trails and warm-up shelters/cabins, and most of the progressive clubs have groomers that eat up a lot of money. The clubs are on their own to come up with creative ways to balance the books through corporate sponsors, maps, fund raisers, membership fees, trail passes, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is that everyone can do a part and we as a snowmobile group are doing our part better but there is still room for improvement.

our club has had perminent signs up for years at all three MA trail heads

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Its about time BC sleds ,quads and dirt bikes got regestered and insuered. As a rider I have a concern about being injured by one of them and them having NO coverage. The rest of us need it why not BC. I know its an extra expense but come on, wouldn't you want the couverage if you ended up in the hospital from someone elses act. Just MY opinion.

It always has been required that sleds be registered in BC. Coming this Summer Quads and dirt bikes will have to be registered too. Insurance still remains an option....probably not for long though. I've been sledding for over 30 years in BC and this is the first year I've ever put insurance on my sleds. Partly because this is the first year I've had 2 sleds worth insuring and mostly because the cost of sled insurance has dropped considerably over the past few years. Five years ago I was lookin at almost $800 dollars to insure a 1993 Yamaha Phazer. Now I can insure a 2007 REV 600 for about $400. That includes liability insurance and sleds are insured while transporting. More liability insurance comes with joining the snowmobile club. I don't mind having to insure my toys as long as it's affordable. With the new "Harmonized" Sales Tax coming in July we'll now have to pay 12% when we register our toys, new and used. There's the Tax Grab part that pi$$es me off

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

Well said...... If you can't afford the insurance and registration, you can't afford the sport.

I agree partially with what you're saying but sometimes the cost of sled insurance is so out of line that it's almost impossible to afford. Five years ago it was going to cost me more to insure a $3000 sled than my $5000 dollar truck. Join a club. I'm not sure how other clubs roll but with our club membership fee you get liability insurance for accidents on the trail.

 

[Polarblu]

just cause sumone might have a hard time saving up 200 or 300 or 500 for a beacon does NOT mean they cant enjoy sledding and mountain riding. lets be fair about this.

I am fair. If you dont have the money for emergency equipment then you dont have money for emergencies. Mountain riding is expensive, stick to the trail systems and enjoy.

 

[Polarblu]

As far as I'm concerned, you have to pay to play. But there is more than one way to do this.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think money from off road vehicle registration in Ontario and Quebec is directed to the sport. Here in alberta and in BC it just goes into the governments general vehicle pot, so they are getting a lest some money that way. Plus there is very considerable road tax on all the fuel we burn (and we burn a fair bit of it) that does not go to the sport as it probably should. As a former sled club president one of our pet peeves was that as a riding area or trail manager you cannot require sleds to be registered to use your trail/area and the second thing was that we could not access the revenue from registration & fuel tax like they do over there.

Second, if you smash up your car and get hurt, who pays for that? I think your insurance company does, and if you don't have insurance for the towing, damage to property and and all the other things you pay it out of your pocket. So I guess everyone that had a sled extracted should get a bill that your insurance company will pay if we are talking all fairness here.

And I don't know if there is one, but someone should really start providing chopper insurance. So you could buy it for lets say $30 a day or something if you wanted it - otherwise you pay it yourself.

Economic development in the local riding areas should also contribute funding to rescue services (they probably do some, but maybe they need to do more), or maybe it needs to come a bit from property taxes and such, which would translate into higher hotel/food/gas fee's etc which would get paid by the users (which is fair).

I don't believe it should be burdened on the general public as this just gets people mad at us and will go a long way to helping get the sport shut down.

Yes, I think we need some evolution here.

Thanks for your post. At least some people are thinking ahead. To add to that the device called SPOT is emergency insurance built into the plan. If there was a sledder enforced requirement to have one per group then sledders would be paying for thier own rescues and the media couldn't say anything!!
Just like we enforce the beacons, you just wont ride with someone who dosnt know how to use one.

 

[motrhed]

In my opinion the BC Government was already working on this new licensing and regulation plan and this weekend's incident just gave them an opportunity to unveil it and look good to the average granola chewing Joe Blow citizen.
Does anyone really think that they came up with this new plan in the few days since this accident occurred? NO government works that fast!
If "licensing" refers to plates/registration, suck it up, most other provinces already have this as law for snowmobiles and off-highway vehicles. Unfortunately in Alberta, all of that money raised by plating our toys goes into the government's general coffers and gets spent on everything but trail maintenance... which isn't right, but that's another story. I am sure that BC has been looking at this for a while to increase their tax base, not to benefit the snowmobile/off-highway riding areas.
Regarding insurance, it is reasonable to say these days that it is a necessary evil. I don't particularly like money grabbing insurance companies, but they do provide a necessary service of protection. I for one would feel allot better if I knew that everyone out on public land carried appropriate insurance against unforeseen events.

 

[jon]

hey i am not sure how this works or even if it is valid in canada, even tho i paid for it, but apparently when i activated my spot tracker i purchased a g.e.o.s plan it seems that they cover a lot of rescue expenses, i will call the company and confirm.

heres the link, read it and tell me how you take it.

GEOS Member Rescue Benefit

just f.y.i i did check with my spot service provider today and the s.a.r. benefit does cover canada, there are a few regulations but it will cover helicopter searches and regular s.a.r. searches up to $100,00.00. i think it might be worth looking into for some people. but being like any other insurance im sure if you ever came to a time you would need it, you would have to fight to get it covered.

 

[Riverjet]

My sleds have always been registered but for liability insurance my homeowners liability coverage works for me. I think 1 million is sufficient.

 

[Hefe04]

Well then include rock climbers, quads, hikers, hunters, sky divers, horseback riders, ect. cant just single out one sport. Dont think it's right there are so many things that are risky.

This has been a long time coming in my opinion. We as sledders have to figure out a way to pay for the heli-vacs!! The cost of rescuing us should not be part of normal peoples taxes!! We put ourselves at risk, not the school teacher down the road who warms up before golfing and struggles with a mortgage!!
We as mountain sledder push the limits because it makes us tick, i cant live without it, but my nieghbors are paying for the rescue missions to save my friends lives, why? If you can afford this sport then you can afford to pony up some dough to pay for a chopper to save your buddies or your life!!
If you have to save up for a beacon take up a different sport this ones out of your means!!
And that goes double for extreme river boating!! I hate hearing about a rescue for those guys cause i cant afford one yet!!!

 

[Riverjet]

If "licensing" refers to plates/registration, suck it up, most other provinces already have this as law for snowmobiles and off-highway vehicles.

I think when they say "licencing" they mean "operators licence" / taxgrab. Just what the BC Liberals are known for.

 

[ferniesnow]

As far as I'm concerned, you have to pay to play......And I don't know if there is one, but someone should really start providing chopper insurance. So you could buy it for lets say $30 a day or something if you wanted it - otherwise you pay it yourself.

I agree but the chopper insurance at $30/day thing sounds like someone who rides the mountains occasionally or as a weekend warrior!

I ride the mountains 100+ days and like the initial statements says you need to pay to play. If I required a chopper, I would have no hesitation calling one and paying the bill whether it be for myself or my buddies. If the situation demands it that is the price one pays. I surely wouldn't be paying $30/day for insurance!

Dead sleds that are in a remote basin or wherever sometimes require a chopper and why should the tax payer absorb the cost. That is the cost of riding in the places that we do.

Unless big changes were to be made to the rescue situation in Canada the taxpayer pays the cost. That is the way we have been raised and the way the system works; whether you are a hunter, skier, boarder, hiker, trapper, pilot, or any other outdoor enthusiast. If you are in a highway accident in Northern Ontario, the Yukon, or any number of places and a chopper is dispatched, the taxpayer picks up the bill. You could break your leg on the rocks in Newfoundland and if the EMS couldn't get to you safely a chopper would be dispatched and the taxpayer would pay. Even the search and rescue of downed airplanes, missing boats, and a miriad of other situations requires big bucks.

It is expensive to run Canada and the manner in which we live, but the Olympics sure reminded me of my pride for this magnificent Canada!!