Government to cash in on Revy tragedy.

[bbtoys]

I could only find SAR data from 2005, but maritime (Oceanic based) SAR activity FAR, FAR exceeds all others.

Humanitarian includes ground and inland water.

If anyone wants to complain about SAR costs, snowmobiler related costs are WAAAAY DOWN on the list.

Also included a link to the full report.



Someone send that to the media asking about costs!!!!!

you can't send stuff that is 5 years old. Last year our SAR cost and hours were the highest ever for our area, down this year, but call outs are not cheap

 

[bbtoys]

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that by "licensing" you mean registration? Or do you mean a license to operate a snowmobile? I agree with having insurance, but not really sure how registration is going to make it safer for anyone. You need a license to operate a boat now, but I challenged the course to get that (never had any training) and aced it. So I don't see how that really is making any difference on the water. I don't really think the "drinking and riding or driving" comment was necessary. Not really what this thread is about.

so where do you think your $$$ for reg. and ins. is going to go, bet you any amount of $$$ that it will not go back into our sport and I don't think it will see it's way to the SAR fund. so if all the sleds involved in Sat. incident had insurance on them this would have saved 2 lives, NOT. or better yet, paid for the recovery, NO.
you have no clue what this incident as well as last years numbers could be bringing down on the backcountry users, all because some of us can't or will not use our heads when it comes to respecting mother nature and using our training with respect to terrain traps and slide paths.

 

[Steve D]

I'm instantly going to be against any legislation that does not involve the people that will be impacted by it. I'm sure most of us will. Sad truth is though, from what I saw and read so far, it looks like they're going to use last weekend as a launchpad to do just that. This thread isn't going to change opinions down Victoria, but maybe we can some discussion going for the people who should be going to Victoria.

By the way, what are the taxes we pay on the gas and the $10,000 sleds being used for? Weren't people arguing in another thread that the cost of sleds in Canada was so high so we could pay for these government services anyway?

Factor that into the equation. Or do we roll over and accept that as being not worth anything?

 

[jasonrev]

Polarblu I have to say I agree with you on some things and others I don't. You seem to drive home there should be a higher level of accountability amoung us snowmobilers. That sir I would defenetly have to agree with!!!! One thing I think your missing the boat on is how much revenue the snowmobile industry generates for the government. For starters we buy a machine that has a 12.5% tax on it, on a $14000 machine thats $1750. This machine runs gasoline which is a product that is taxed quite handsomely from our government. We also need a pickup to tow or haul around these machines which can cost $70000 or more. I'm pretty sure when I bought my pickup last year that I payed tax on that as well. A peson can't forget about the parts and acessories that we put on these machines as well, that once again we get taxed on. We also can't forget about the restaurants, pubs, bars, grocery stores and hotels that we frequent when we go on our sledding trips. I could go on and on but I think I've beat this point to death. The bottom line is backcountry snowmobiling probably costs the government a decent chunk of money, but I feel snowmobilers put it back into the economy ten fold. Ask anyone from a small snowmobiler town like Stewart or Mcbride and they would be able to give you a scope on how much positive economic impact that snowmobilers have on their community.

 

[jasonrev]

Insurance should be a personal choice if you can afford to pay for injuries and or damages your machine could cause to someone else should that event occur.....liability insurance should be mandatory.....

I will be honest I can't afford to pay for someone's injuries but I also don't ride reckless. The areas I ride are also not very busy. I may come across a couple of groups a day. If liability insurance was reasonably priced from a reputable insurance company I would be all over it.

 

[scoobienorth]

I pay $229 a year for 2 sleds, liability, fire and theft. A small price to pay for peace of mind.
I agree an operators license doesn't mean a whole lot, but if the training/ course included avy training it would be well worth it.

that is great for you living in alberta in bc it is a LOT MORE. for just fire and theft ONLY on my 3 quads insured at a value of only 3/4 of what it would be to replace them it is just shy of $3000 for a year.

 

[ZRrrr]

you can't send stuff that is 5 years old. Last year our SAR cost and hours were the highest ever for our area, down this year, but call outs are not cheap

That's the most recent data the federal site had. BC S&R does not have theirs posted. If you have stats go ahead and post them up with breakdown on type....just leave out the fishermen or you'll get an earfull.

 

[Polarblu]

Polarblu I have to say I agree with you on some things and others I don't. You seem to drive home there should be a higher level of accountability amoung us snowmobilers. That sir I would defenetly have to agree with!!!! One thing I think your missing the boat on is how much revenue the snowmobile industry generates for the government. For starters we buy a machine that has a 12.5% tax on it, on a $14000 machine thats $1750. This machine runs gasoline which is a product that is taxed quite handsomely from our government. We also need a pickup to tow or haul around these machines which can cost $70000 or more. I'm pretty sure when I bought my pickup last year that I payed tax on that as well. A peson can't forget about the parts and acessories that we put on these machines as well, that once again we get taxed on. We also can't forget about the restaurants, pubs, bars, grocery stores and hotels that we frequent when we go on our sledding trips. I could go on and on but I think I've beat this point to death. The bottom line is backcountry snowmobiling probably costs the government a decent chunk of money, but I feel snowmobilers put it back into the economy ten fold. Ask anyone from a small snowmobiler town like Stewart or Mcbride and they would be able to give you a scope on how much positive economic impact that snowmobilers have on their community.

I fully understand and agree with your view.
However as we can see by the BBQ our buts are taking right now we need to do something more that can be part of front page news in our favour. It has to be something new and proactive that is put in place by sledders. Lets take this energy we are wasting by whinning and come up with a way to directly fund SAR that has sledders written all over it!!
We can do more, and if its organized wont be a screw-up like government regs will be!!

 

[Polarblu]

That's the most recent data the federal site had. BC S&R does not have theirs posted. If you have stats go ahead and post them up with breakdown on type....just leave out the fishermen or you'll get an earfull.

I appologize ZRrrr i get a bit worked up on this topic.
Cheers

 

[foxrider]

The government is cruel and sadistic. They want to tax snowmobile and atv patrons for something that we are all aware of. any snowmobiler who goes into the mountains knows the inherent risks that come along with it. Many of the people who try to pass these laws have not experienced the thrills of being up in the mouintains and playing in the powder. they shouldnt knock it til they try it. we all know the risks of the mountains, avalanches are an act of god and can happen in areas at any time.

 

[fnDan]

Maybe the government could erect signs with the avy rating for the area at the staging area or even along the highway the same as fire hazard conditions.
People could'nt plead ignorance anymore. Put a blurb at the bottom that if you're not sure what this means, please take an avy course. Local avy trainers could sponsor a sign to keep it up to date and be allowed to place a name and contact number. They could also post an add-on notifying sledders when training is happening in the area and to stop by and see what it's about.
Insurance money will only go to the insurance co's.
Add the number of recent incidents for the area when the numbers are high to really let users know the area is risky.

 

[ferniesnow]

Things are strange in BC and have been that way for years!

How in the world can you buy a quad or a snowmobile and not register it with plates and insurance and still drive them around? Granted the snowmobile is supposed to have a $15 registration plate attached to the sled forever and always but not the quad. Snowmobiles do not require insurance or a license plate (so to speak). You don't even require a helmet! Go figure!! Only happens in BC and NewFoundland. Recently, on quads one is required to have insurance, driver's license, and helmet on Forest Service Roads but not on exploration roads.

I, for one, support registration and licensing of quads and snowmobiles and maybe even something with motor boats as I think they are not totally regulated (I might be wrong on this). In BC, we pay PST at 7% and I don't like paying any more tax than I have to but when will the government treat snowmobiles and quads like automobiles and make taxes, licensing, and insurance compulsory? I'm not going to win a popularity contest saying what I did but economically in BC that is the way it should be. Period.

I have been stopped at check stops and all the RCMP are looking for are stolen sleds (radio the VIN number into dispatch, if it isn't reported stolen, you're good to go). Never any questions about that little registration sticker that is required.

I personally don't think the latest tragedy will have any effect other than what was already planned under the Coalition to come into effect in Nov 2011. Man, it has taken them 4 years so far and they still require another 2; talk about government moving in strange and marvellous ways!!

 

[green-horn]

If the sleds had insurance and registration it would of helped with identification/match people to machines. Does everybody know everybody and where they live?

 

[xpsledneck]

I was reading an article on msn and I would like to share a bit of this article.

"The B.C. government is reconsidering regulations for snowmobilers after the weekend's deadly avalanche near Revelstoke.

B.C. Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger said Monday that his ministry was looking at possible changes to new regulations announced in November 2009 that were to be phased in over the next two years.

The regulations — covering all motorized off-road riding equipment such as snowmobiles and all-terrain vehicles — include new licensing and insurance requirements.

Krueger's comments came after two men were killed and more than 30 were injured when a wall of snow came down on about 200 snowmobile enthusiasts who were in the backcountry area known as Turbo Bowl for the annual Big Iron Shoot-Out snowmobile event on Saturday. "

Is is just me or is the government using this tragedy as an opportunity to "tax" us snowmobilers more. Having mandatory licensing and insurance requirements would have not prevented the tragedy in Revelstoke. If Kevin Krueger is so concerned about us snowmobilers he should work with the BCSF and come up with some solutions that would actually help keep snowmobilers safe instead of these obsurd licensing and insurance requirements.

All I can see this licensing and insurance B.S. being is counter productive to our sport and our safety. I much like many other snowmobilers are on a budget. In this "budget" we have to buy gear, gas, snowmobile parts, oil, avalanche gear and many other things. If these regulations go through that would be a chunk out of our budget. With a chunk out of a person's budget maybe a person that was saving up for a new abs or other inflatable pack can't afford it or maybe someone that is saving up for a better beacon has to put it on the back burner for another year. In my humble opinion beacons, shovels, probes and packs will go a lot further in saving snowmobiler's lives than a stupid piece of plastic stating I completed a test to ride my machine.

I feel us snowmobilers have to band together and let our government know that these licensing and insurance regulations are not going to help but hinder snowmobiler safety. These regulations are not for snowmobiler safety, they are just another "tax". I feel disgusted that the goverment used the Revelstoke tragedy to justify there new "tax". I hope Kevin Krueger can sleep well tonight.

What about the people who are from the states that go to revy for this event and just to ride the beautiful mountians and deep snow they have to offer. the only people who suffer are the ones who live here and the tourism and income thayt the people bring to the province. it dosent just affect the riders ti affects the hotels, gas stations, resterants, and clubs. so it is not just the sledders that have to come together and help change this. Oh and i forgot what about the rental and guide companies. oh ya i forgot just like the boaters licence they will just be able to get a day pass.

 

[xpsledneck]

Things are strange in BC and have been that way for years!

How in the world can you buy a quad or a snowmobile and not register it with plates and insurance and still drive them around? Granted the snowmobile is supposed to have a $15 registration plate attached to the sled forever and always but not the quad. Snowmobiles do not require insurance or a license plate (so to speak). You don't even require a helmet! Go figure!! Only happens in BC and NewFoundland. Recently, on quads one is required to have insurance, driver's license, and helmet on Forest Service Roads but not on exploration roads.

I, for one, support registration and licensing of quads and snowmobiles and maybe even something with motor boats as I think they are not totally regulated (I might be wrong on this). In BC, we pay PST at 7% and I don't like paying any more tax than I have to but when will the government treat snowmobiles and quads like automobiles and make taxes, licensing, and insurance compulsory? I'm not going to win a popularity contest saying what I did but economically in BC that is the way it should be. Period.

I have been stopped at check stops and all the RCMP are looking for are stolen sleds (radio the VIN number into dispatch, if it isn't reported stolen, you're good to go). Never any questions about that little registration sticker that is required.

I personally don't think the latest tragedy will have any effect other than what was already planned under the Coalition to come into effect in Nov 2011. Man, it has taken them 4 years so far and they still require another 2; talk about government moving in strange and marvellous ways!!

Actually in Alberta you don't have to have a helmet either but you have to have a head light and tail light. I don't know who makes these laws but they need to give there head a shake and come to there senses.

 

[fargineyesore]

so where do you think your $$$ for reg. and ins. is going to go, bet you any amount of $$$ that it will not go back into our sport and I don't think it will see it's way to the SAR fund. so if all the sleds involved in Sat. incident had insurance on them this would have saved 2 lives, NOT. or better yet, paid for the recovery, NO.
you have no clue what this incident as well as last years numbers could be bringing down on the backcountry users, all because some of us can't or will not use our heads when it comes to respecting mother nature and using our training with respect to terrain traps and slide paths.

I'm not advocating registration, and I didn't mean to incur that insurance would have saved any lives. Obviously it would have had nothing to do with it. The reason I carry insurance is if I get in an accident and hurt someone else, or if the sled is stolen or burnt, but that's a personal decision for all to make themselves. It's much cheaper for insurance in Alberta than BC, from what others on here are saying, so if I lived in BC, I could possibly feel different. I don't agree with legislating it, never have. I agree this is a tax grab and won't help SAR or go into the snowmobiling sport. It's a typical knee jerk reaction by govt. I also agree with your point about "use our heads" as well. Certainly better decisions have to be made. Not sure what I said that got your dander up, but we actually seem to agree on this one. Amazing isn't it.

 

[ZRrrr]

I appologize ZRrrr i get a bit worked up on this topic.
Cheers

We are all pretty fired up right now. Read many recent threads and you can see everyone is feeling it.

Regarding registration and insurance, what about mandatory trail passes? Isn't something like over $200 in Ontario, but a lot goes back into snowmobile related activities. We don't have that here yet, but it may be coming.

 

[scoobienorth]

i think that the registration of atv's and snowmobiles is a great opportunity for our sports and riding spots to grow, helping track stolen atv's and allowing the growth of trail networks, if we are insured we should be able to start accessing roads to going trails and so on but until the insurance rate issue regarding atvs and snowmobiles is addressed i fear it will just make more good people criminals or drive people from the sport as the costs for a family to go out will sky rocket.

 

[SnowBuggy]

Not so long ago there was constant news of people going out of bounds on ski hills and flying into the back country, being involved in avalanaches and losing there lives. At that time it was also brought up the cost and risks associated with the rescues and recoveries. Back counrty ventures is big business for snow sports if you try to close it down do expect to see a ripple effect through more than just the industry. For places to have year round tourism is a big asset, especially to smaller centers throughout the mountain areas. If the goverment plans to throw restrictions on they need to realize what effects it will have. And they need to realize you can't single out one division of snow sports. People need to be responsible for their own actions why does it have to turn into a finger pointing. It should not be the responsibility of someone else to educate you if you are new to something obviously research should be involved. If you are familiar with something don't allow yourself to become complacent. Keep up with new information. The loss of any life is tragic, thoughts go out to those who lost their lives and condolences to their families.

 

[jon]

We are all pretty fired up right now. Read many recent threads and you can see everyone is feeling it.

Regarding registration and insurance, what about mandatory trail passes? Isn't something like over $200 in Ontario, but a lot goes back into snowmobile related activities. We don't have that here yet, but it may be coming.

i used to live in ont. before i moved here and yes the yearly trail fee went back into maintaining the trail system and during the summer months went into clearing brush and building bridges to open up new trails.

but if there was an accident on the trails it had to be covered by your own insurance, or at your own expense. so i think insurance is a good idea for all to have