Global Newscast - Mar 18-10 (Heli-skiers speak out about Revy Avalanche)

[norona]

I have to agree with shoppingcart111.

This avy at revy should have never have happened. I spend 120 plus days a year out in the backcountry, sledding, sled/skiing and touring.

Many of you here are attacking Wiegle but we are our own demise if this is what people are going to do.

The warnings have been there for over a month. You would have to live in a box to not hear or see them. They were everywhere. I go out every day I want to but I make smart decisions of where I will go and what I will do.

This avy happened for 2 main reasons. Riders hill climbing on a slope they should have never been on and more than one on a hill. That should never happen.

I do not want regulation and hope it does not happen and yes the media is having a field day with us right now, even though the facts are not all out on the table. However for many of you, you are still defending the actions of some people who made the biggest errors in judgement on the worst days possible.

If this continues to happen then yeah expect the gov to step in event though it will not make a difference. The only difference will be when all sledders stand up and say yeah these riders made a huge mistake and they should have never been there.

I am a little frustrated with how people are speaking of all the heros and how good people were when they had all the gear out and saved lives. The fact is that riders made huge mistakes that impacted a big part of the community and it should have never happened. The fact that so many riders are sitting in the avy path and no one is thinking to tell people to move is just another "shake your head" thing that is what are people thinking...

I have seen this at other events where people park in such a way that no one is getting out if they have to. Come on people if we want to play in the backcountry then we have to take responsibility for our actions. If a few of us are still going to push it on bad day then we have to expect that people will paint us with that one brush....sad but true.

If we don't want that stigma then talk to your buddies and remind them how important it is to come back at the end of the day, more than riding that sic line one last time or choosing to be in an area that is not meant to be ridden that day. Our families, friends and the sledding community as a whole will be all better off if we do that..

I still can't believe the things i see out there every day I am out...more than one guy on a hill under cutting hanging cornice rolls...every day i am out I see guys making poor choices...this does happen with every backcountry user...but pointing out other groups to make us seem better or normal is stupid...lets take it on ourselves to get more education out there...

 

[team dirt]

You are right maxwell, they pay big money so they better be prepared, but we pay big money aswell for all the gear and sled, but it comes down to being prepared. Isn't your safety and the safety of everyone around more important wether you pay 10,000 for skiing or 15 for a trial pass for sledding.

Are you suggesting a $15 trail pass should ensure your safety. Weigle has been trying with every chance he gets to shut us down. Even if we are 100% safe he will find a reason. Lets not try to give him anymore ammo. Mybe you should start an operation where you can charge 7500 a week for people to sled your terrain and dig pits for them and guide. mabey thats what the world is coming to. I sure hope not.

 

[shoppingcart111]

Are you suggesting a $15 trail pass should ensure your safety. Weigle has been trying with every chance he gets to shut us down. Even if we are 100% safe he will find a reason. Lets not try to give him anymore ammo. Mybe you should start an operation where you can charge 7500 a week for people to sled your terrain and dig pits for them and guide. mabey thats what the world is coming to. I sure hope not.

No I am not suggesting a $15 trail pass does anything for safety. When skiers pay $10,000 for a week of skiing then they expect 100 safety and the guides better be on top of their game which they are with all the preparations they take before heading out. What I'm trying to say is shouldnt we be doing the same? although we dont have a guide doing it for us, we have to do it for oursleves, so if the avy conditions are extreme, shouldnt you do one of three things, 1. stay home, 2. take the nessasary precautions to avoid the problems ie, digging pits to assess the pack, 0r 3. stick to meadows or small stuff that cant slide and avoid terrain traps.

 

[ajay]

Yes Weigle does the daily pits and other tests, and I'll bet they are fully documented and filed so if there is an incident the liability issue is covered and they would be able to show due dilligence to protect their a$$. Not bashing but he is there to make money and stay in business.

Aj

 

[T-team]

this is true. however this is what you pay for when going with mike weigle. if you pay me 10,000 a week i will dig as many snowpits as to prove safe as this is my job. your safety.

how many backcountry skiers do you think dig snowpits when not guided? whether it be sled skiers or other means of backcountry skiing?

i dont know. im just throwing it out there.

If I were to pay someone ten grand to take me Skiiing....... There better be some kind of cable hooked to me and hooked to the helicopter with a GAURENTEE that nothing bad is going to happen to me..... And I better get one hell of a reach around after. Ha ha ha. Weigle back yard sled trip!!!

 

[booster]

A lot easier to dig a pit at the top of the hill when you have a helicopter:d

 

[Rescue Pilot]

Yup, Weigle is an #$@^&, no question !.

He'd Best not be throwing rocks when he lives in a Glass house. Could happen to him tomorrow, the science of predicting snow avalanches is not perfect.

Be careful out there guys, there are still some bad layers in the snowpack.

 

[CUSO]

Wiegle is concerned about the tourism industry.
How many europeans (which is 99% if his clientele) even know about the sledding here>? He has a tourism industry that does nothing except line his pockets..
Like I said before, he has his own restaurants, his own accommodations, his own transport services.... there is not one Canadian benefit in his operation.

I do agree though that we appear as a bunch of loose cannons, and we better clean up out act.

not that we all are, but the 5% that do the things that make the news, if things turn ugly, make us look bad.

 

[kjb]

this is true. however this is what you pay for when going with mike weigle. if you pay me 10,000 a week i will dig as many snowpits as to prove safe as this is my job. your safety.

how many backcountry skiers do you think dig snowpits when not guided? whether it be sled skiers or other means of backcountry skiing?

i dont know. im just throwing it out there.

As a skier with well over a 1000 days ski touring i'll dig pits 75 % of the time.(self guided) When conditions are sketchy i'll dig many quick hasty pits in a day, it only takes a few minutes to stop and take a look. When conditions are good i do way fewer. I ski with a lot of different people and it is quite commen to dig. On the other hand i notice i do fewer pits when i'm sledding, i'm not sure why. I can not recal seeing ANY OTHER sledder EVER digging a pit. I really hope that is not the norm. Having said that, when the snow is fresh and deep(higher hazzard), i'm usually on my skis and when it's settled out i'm on my sled exploring.

 

[Not2Old]

In my personal opinion I agree Mike is hypocritical arse, but I can understand why he's pissed. Twice last year his helicopters were summoned to help rescue efforts where snowmobilers were involved. In both those cases his high paying guests were left stranded on a hill for unknown periods of time. Their ski vacations were spoiled because a snowmobiler made a bad judgment call and they refused to pay Mike. Mike runs a business, that hurts and I understand has anger toward the group that caused him financial pain.

The problem is every accident is the result of a bad judgment call by a human and we are all human. Mike like many of the other critics are not holier or better than our group. They have and will make bad judgment calls in their life that will result in dire circumstances. Mark my words, Weigle Heli will make a bad call one day and one of his helicopters will be down. Snowmobilers will be there to the help Search and Rescue efforts.

I remember and incident on Mt. Seymour (Vancouver) a couple of years back when fellow was snow shoeing in the back of Seymour. He fell down an embankment and broke his back. The weather was to bad for helicopters to fly and the snow was to deep for the SAR sleds. They put a call out for some mods to help them through the neck deep powder. A dozen sledders left their couches, jobs, hockey games etc. on a week night to help the rescue efforts. I remember seeing the incident on the news and reading about it. The thing that caught my attention the most was that not one single snowmobiler voiced any criticism towards the snow shoe enthusiast that made a bad judgment call and put himself (and his rescuers) in a precarious position.

We are all entitled to enjoy our back yard and at some time in our life we are all going to make bad judgment calls. Unfortunately there will always be people from every group who will suffer the pain of paying the ultimate price for a bad judgment call.

K.

 

[moto.racerx]

mike w did say in the interview it is a small handful or something to that effect...

sounds like he is at least not painting everyone with the same brush

 

[GasCan]

Not to digress from the topic at large, but last weekend a group of us headed to Fernie rather than out to the bigger hills. We had a great time in the rolling hills and meadows and saw only one small slide on an embankment where we chose to ride. We climbed low angle terrain to the top of a ridge and while there was a hill that was tempting to a couple to descend on from the ridge and perhaps climb back up on, one of the guys in our group (Shawmcgr) stepped down atop the ridge to dig a small pit along the leading edge. This allowed him to assess the snow before contemplating the idea of pulling this hill and he quickly said "Not Today".

We rode back down to the meadows and hills and all know that hill will be there to climb another day. Good call on his part and it only took a couple moments to dig that hole and realize it was all "faceted snow" with no bonding. Totally ripe for a slide and not worth the risk! Needless to say we enjoyed the day riding lower angle terrain and still had a great time. More people need to practice this and know when to say NO.

 

[Modman]

so 65% of the deaths are skiers of one type or another.........just sayin'

You bet Ric - I thought the same thing when I looked at the media stats on the CAC website as well. How come the media hasn't been reporting this and how come Les Auston of the BCSF hasn't mentioned this in all his interviews with the CTV news media?

anybody ever think about how many times over the last 20 years weigle has seen sledders in his tenure areas???

still wonder why he hates sleds????

same situation as the kid down the block that likes to cut across your lawn every day to get to school, pisses you off right???

I respect what you are saying but the difference is that I paid for my little piece of front yard - Mr. Weigle didn't pay for the public land that he conducts his private business on. He better be careful about complaining - the next time a cat-skier or heli-skier gets into trouble I'm going to be pushing for a letter from the BCSF about tenured operations on public lands where the public does not see a dime of the profit from these operations. I wonder how many members of 'joe public' aren't aware of what really goes on in the BC backcountry.........

As Rescue Pilot stated - Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

 

[KingCatz]

I cringe whenever I hear sledding or quadding on the news. It seems like it's coming down to licensing and required safety courses for both. I hope that doesn't happen, but all it takes is one sympathetic government either way. With the prices of these sleds I think they should friggin come with a voucher for an avy course. The $20-25,000 we paid for our two sleds was crazy.

 

[Oregongirl]

I cringe whenever I hear sledding or quadding on the news. It seems like it's coming down to licensing and required safety courses for both.

So, are sleds not licensed or registered in Canada now? In the US, depending on which state you live in, sleds are licensed (as in Oregon) or registered (as in Washington). As an Oregon sledder, I have to buy a sled license to ride in Wyoming....even for one day.

BUT - our license fees are directed by the state to the state organization that manages and maintains the trail grooming programs. We do not have to pay any access fees at the trailheads.

You have to have a state issued drivers license to operate a sled (in Oregon) or take a certified training course. For boats and OHV, safety classes are also required. I am not sure that I can disagree with safety courses. Maybe you don't feel like you (not you specifically KingCatz!) need a course, but I think if it helps our sport survive, then sign me up!!

 

[booster]

in alberta we have to have our machines registered and insured, after all this i will be going and getting the avy course as will ALL the people i ride with.
I work in the oil field and safey here at work is always paramont,production does not superceed safety, this should be the same in our off time cause thats where most of us end up hurt ...or worse

 

[KingCatz]

Sorry, I meant personal licenses like the one I have for boating (which is a joke). My sled is registered, insured, and I have my courses.

So, are sleds not licensed or registered in Canada now? In the US, depending on which state you live in, sleds are licensed (as in Oregon) or registered (as in Washington). As an Oregon sledder, I have to buy a sled license to ride in Wyoming....even for one day.

BUT - our license fees are directed by the state to the state organization that manages and maintains the trail grooming programs. We do not have to pay any access fees at the trailheads.

You have to have a state issued drivers license to operate a sled (in Oregon) or take a certified training course. For boats and OHV, safety classes are also required. I am not sure that I can disagree with safety courses. Maybe you don't feel like you (not you specifically KingCatz!) need a course, but I think if it helps our sport survive, then sign me up!!

 

[pipes]

all that bad news that wiggles embellishes on gets the news. No mention on the Good news. The Boondockers Just has a very fun fill week trip in Elkford. No one hurt, no carnage, no news. Some one gotta put wiggles in his place. I wish that we would have invited him to Elkford to ride with use and see what wee are all about.

 

[Oregongirl]

Sorry, I meant personal licenses like the one I have for boating (which is a joke). My sled is registered, insured, and I have my courses.

Cool. Thanks for clarifying. I've seen this stated on several threads and finally decided to ask.

We have to have personal licenses for boating here too. Frankly, I'm not up-to-date on the ohv rules, but I think that's where they are going with them too...personal licenses.

I've always felt you should have to be licensed to be a parent!!! But that's a topic for another thread. :d

 

[Puba]

What a fuggin homo ..........