Fix Kit Install First Timer

[Jorgy]

I didn't think the 15's needed the fix kit. I thought problem was fixed on the 14's and newer. Can someone clarify please.

Only difference from the 11's & 12's to the 13-15's is that they thickened the cylinder skirts...Resulting in the skirts lasting for more miles before any potential cracking. The problem still lies in that polaris has a large spec for piston diameter and cylinder diameter. If you get pistons and cylinders that are middle of the spec you're perfect and likley will last 2000-3000 miles with no issues. However when you get pistons that are on the small side of the spec and cylinders on the large side, you get too much piston to cylinder clearance resulting in piston slap and premature wear and cracking of pistons and/or cylinders. The issue was that polaris production was inconsistent (and still is) so you wouldnt know until you open it up. Mine was good and could've ran for another 1000 no problem. You dont know until its too late, and I'd rather find out in the shop the 30 miles into the backcountry.

This is just my .02 and mainly based off of a good buddy of mine who knows these very well. It would be great if others would chime in and give their take.

 

[007sevens]

Only difference from the 11's & 12's to the 13-15's is that they thickened the cylinder skirts...Resulting in the skirts lasting for more miles before any potential cracking. The problem still lies in that polaris has a large spec for piston diameter and cylinder diameter. If you get pistons and cylinders that are middle of the spec you're perfect and likley will last 2000-3000 miles with no issues. However when you get pistons that are on the small side of the spec and cylinders on the large side, you get too much piston to cylinder clearance resulting in piston slap and premature wear and cracking of pistons and/or cylinders. The issue was that polaris production was inconsistent (and still is) so you wouldnt know until you open it up. Mine was good and could've ran for another 1000 no problem. You dont know until its too late, and I'd rather find out in the shop the 30 miles into the backcountry.

This is just my .02 and mainly based off of a good buddy of mine who knows these very well. It would be great if others would chime in and give their take.

I concur, When I opened my 2011 up back in 2012 I was surprised at the amount piston movement in there. I started a thread back then on it. It wasn't just these motors but the 08-10's as well. They were the ones that really responded to the fix kit. My 2011 is still running and I keep it as a spare but the kids ride the Sh1t out of it and it still has more compression then a 2016 IMO. The fix kit is proven and I don't know That I have heard anyone who has had one fail from normal use.

On a side note the 08-10's responded well to turbo applications with no fix kit. People have found that the extra pressure on top of the piston decreased the amount of piston failures. Seems to reason that this would be true in the newer engines as well.

 

[nosaj82]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.


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[Chrisco]

I concur, When I opened my 2011 up back in 2012 I was surprised at the amount piston movement in there. I started a thread back then on it. It wasn't just these motors but the 08-10's as well. They were the ones that really responded to the fix kit. My 2011 is still running and I keep it as a spare but the kids ride the Sh1t out of it and it still has more compression then a 2016 IMO. The fix kit is proven and I don't know That I have heard anyone who has had one fail from normal use.

On a side note the 08-10's responded well to turbo applications with no fix kit. People have found that the extra pressure on top of the piston decreased the amount of piston failures. Seems to reason that this would be true in the newer engines as well.

Same goes for the pros with boost.

 

[gdhillon]

I concur, When I opened my 2011 up back in 2012 I was surprised at the amount piston movement in there. I started a thread back then on it. It wasn't just these motors but the 08-10's as well. They were the ones that really responded to the fix kit. My 2011 is still running and I keep it as a spare but the kids ride the Sh1t out of it and it still has more compression then a 2016 IMO. The fix kit is proven and I don't know That I have heard anyone who has had one fail from normal use.

On a side note the 08-10's responded well to turbo applications with no fix kit. People have found that the extra pressure on top of the piston decreased the amount of piston failures. Seems to reason that this would be true in the newer engines as well.

So in theory a rudimentary test to see if a pro is in the middle of the spec would be to pop the head off and shove a feeler guage between the piston and cylinder wall?

 

[007sevens]

So in theory a rudimentary test to see if a pro is in the middle of the spec would be to pop the head off and shove a feeler guage between the piston and cylinder wall?

To be honest, you need nothing more than your finger. Just rock the piston back and forth. It was that noticeable.

 

[Jorgy]

Feeler gauge would work, but I agree with above. I could move mu piston back and forth with one finger, could see gap on one end and tight in the other. My scoring wasn't too bad but another 1000 and it would be more severe


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[Chrisco]

So in theory a rudimentary test to see if a pro is in the middle of the spec would be to pop the head off and shove a feeler guage between the piston and cylinder wall?

LOL more like a butter knife than a feeler gauge.

 

[JMCX]

Clearance is measured down on the skirt of the piston. I don't know that you would get a proper measurement poking down in there with a feeler gauge. A couple extra thou sure makes them feel loose.

I ran a big bore Cat for several years. Spec for the pistons was 6 thou clearance. After every season l would tear it down for inspection. 12 thou clearance, you want to feel loose! One time l had to go in after just one ride. Already 12thou! I think they expanded a lot and just clearanced themselves.

 

[TJ(turbojoe)]

Wanted to update here so anyone else doing this for the first time has something to follow. I took apart my exhaust valves and cleaned them following the service manual. Couldn't believe how black and gummed up they were. Didn't take any pictures but the inside of the rubber flange was completely black, guillotine was completely covered as well. I took apart the entire assembly and sprayed thoroughly with brake cleaner, wipe with paper towel and washed with water. What a difference. If you dont do this every year...you should. I also wasn't happy with the amount of carbon build up in the cylinders between the valves and y-pipe, so I completely cleaned all the carbon and oil build up. Cylinder is now spotless. Put the valves back on with new gaskets, y-pipe and gasket. Applied oil to the inside of the bores while it sits overnight. Tomorrow should be install of the fit kit. I know I am premature doing the kit, but now that I've got the peace of mind everything is cleaned and ready to go I should be able to ride worry free for the next two seasons before looking at it again.

Brake clean damages the exhaust valve bellows. I wouldn't use brake clean on anything but brakes . Soap and water.

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[Jorgy]

Hey guys, another updates here. I've been lucky enough the past two weekends to get the sled out for a rip around the acreage and put some break in miles on. I did 5 heat cycles a couple weeks ago and have since put my clutching in: blue/pink primary, black/purple secondary, carls cycle helix and still stock weights (not sure what to run yet). Idle is steady at 1800rpm. From engagement to 5000rpm sounds and runs greats. however at 5100-6000 it bogs bad. Makes a gurgle noise, I notice a drop in power but not rpm. Then as soon as I'm past 6000 she pulls hard, harder than my brothers stock pro. Has anyone had this issue fix kit or no fix kit? I'm either thinking its clutching related (not likely other than the fact that it revs at 7500rpm at less than half throttle cause of elevation) Or do I have a damaged injector, bad fuel? (on reserve with proabably too much oil in the tank and 2.5 turns on my oil pump, old fuel with stabilizer in it)Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[JMCX]

FYI fuel stabilizer is for lawn mowers, weed wackers and such. Not high output 2-strokes. Always run fresh gas. Many a piston is lost on first rides of the season.

 

[TJ(turbojoe)]

Are you throwing any codes? What do your plugs look like ? Did you put the exhaust valves together properly? Fuel filter? Injector seals? I would put fresh fuel and at least enough so your not on reserve. I had a bad Injector seal on the mag side after a fix kit or reliability kit as polaris calls .

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[Jorgy]

Are you throwing any codes? What do your plugs look like ? Did you put the exhaust valves together properly? Fuel filter? Injector seals? I would put fresh fuel and at least enough so your not on reserve. I had a bad Injector seal on the mag side after a fix kit or reliability kit as polaris calls .

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Can't believe I didn't think to check if it's throwing codes usually the first thing I do lol thanks tj.
Plugs are gold and black so they check out.
Exhaust valves I believe are fine, I thought maybe they weren't opening up so I may check them if the problem continues.
Fuel Filter replaced last season.
Injectors was my other though as I heard they are very touchy and easy to damage, possibility I couldve nicked them during the install.



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[Jorgy]

Can't believe I didn't think to check if it's throwing codes usually the first thing I do lol thanks tj.
Plugs are gold and black so they check out.
Exhaust valves I believe are fine, I thought maybe they weren't opening up so I may check them if the problem continues.
Fuel Filter replaced last season.
Injectors was my other though as I heard they are very touchy and easy to damage, possibility I couldve nicked them during the install.

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Got a chance to put on some miles this weekend and this was my findings...

Still bogging around 5000-6000 rpm sometimes resulting in a total loss of power, but will run very solid after that.
Not throwing codes
Replaced plugs with brand new halfway through ride - seemed to fix my issue until on the way down the trail as I dropped elevation t would bog bad and mis fire. To the point where if I didnt gas it would just fall on its face until I let off and got back on the throttle...

At a loss here guys. IF there was something on install of the kit that could cause thus type of failure what would it be? Really contemplating pulling the top end apart if I can figure it out. Worried that im doing major damage that is going to be a big cost.

 

[007sevens]

Got a chance to put on some miles this weekend and this was my findings...

Still bogging around 5000-6000 rpm sometimes resulting in a total loss of power, but will run very solid after that.
Not throwing codes
Replaced plugs with brand new halfway through ride - seemed to fix my issue until on the way down the trail as I dropped elevation t would bog bad and mis fire. To the point where if I didnt gas it would just fall on its face until I let off and got back on the throttle...

At a loss here guys. IF there was something on install of the kit that could cause thus type of failure what would it be? Really contemplating pulling the top end apart if I can figure it out. Worried that im doing major damage that is going to be a big cost.

What weight are you running in the clutch?

The reason I ask is because it will run stronger then before. If your hitting high end revs it will go into limp mode and over fuel. This happens so fast that you won't be able to see it.

 

[Jorgy]

What weight are you running in the clutch?

The reason I ask is because it will run stronger then before. If your hitting high end revs it will go into limp mode and over fuel. This happens so fast that you won't be able to see it.

Ran around home with 62's cause u hadn't changed them. Ran this weekend at 6-7000' with 64grams polaris weights


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[007sevens]

Ran around home with 62's cause u hadn't changed them. Ran this weekend at 6-7000' with 64grams polaris weights


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So did it run fine up top?

 

[Jorgy]

So did it run fine up top?

No, is was very inconsistent until I swapped plugs. After that was better for a couple miles and then got worse as I headed back down the trail. It runs on one from 5000-6000rpm


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[007sevens]

No, is was very inconsistent until I swapped plugs. After that was better for a couple miles and then got worse as I headed back down the trail. It runs on one from 5000-6000rpm


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I agree, something is a miss. A compression test may tell us something. Have you Checked all the electrical connections?