I'm not sure id want to mess with removing that coating and throwing away those hi tech Pistons. Those two items seem like a big part of the new package. I wonder if there will be s good nitrous system that will work. Looks like the motor should handle a big dose.
Dynotech Test of 850
- Thread starter Rotax_Kid
- Start date
A big bore would mean going to conventional pistons (unless appropriate same technology ones could be re-purposed from another application) and cylinder coating. I imagine it will be some time before the aftermarket cylinder repair shops adopt this process, if ever. Hopefully this stuff is actually better.
some ppl enjoy being negative Nancy's and boring everyone with fables
LBZ
Active VIP Member
I've never had nitrous on an efi machine. How does it work? Setup the same as a carb system or what?
I am really impressed! Wow, kudos all around I have to say!!!
Not for this 850 thing, I am impressed by the doo loyal riders. I am truly amazed and humbled by how hard you guys are cheering for something that's 70 horsepower behind the leader in the 2017 model year. THAT takes some real persistence and perseverance.
Look: S&M even added a emoji guy on the same week the dyno results came out to help you guys express yourselves - great work there rknight.That's some forward thinkin' right thar. Hahahaha!
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
When it comes to mountain sleds theirs only really 3 sleds yamaha coukd have 3 times the power and still not worth taking in to alpine till they drop 150 plus pounds! I had a friend put a million miles on a vw tdi doesn't mean he had fun doing it and that's a yamaha yes it's reliable but it's heavy and the fun factory is exteamly low
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
Man does no one in this trend know how a dyno works and what corrected numbers are sleds do not have to be run the same day the dyno takes that in to account for corrected number jeasus **** people ......tunes are not "hot tunes" they need real world testing and results before release, sleds are required to meat emissions and with a NA engine a hot tune don't do much you can play with fuel mapping a little but if you pull.timing more of the cylinder wall is exposed to the flame and creates heat, sleds run on pump gas and CR is not bumped up pull your heads out of your ass people!!!! The current xm is the sled to have I've have all 3 newest models cat pro climb, pro rmk, axys and 2 xm's the do rocks reliable and we'll build cat needs to loose weight and polaris as much as everyone wants to believe the axys is all new its just refined and kinda boring after riding a xm
LBZ
Active VIP Member
Wow......
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Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Lund
Active VIP Member
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
If you guys new how a dyno works their wouldn't be fighting over stupid numbers and people would realize the curve is more important then peek numbers anyway .......ride all the the Xm blows the rest out of the water I can't even ride the axys it's sits in the trailer cuz if snow I'd good I feel like I'm. Wasting a day I may as well be hung over as **** cuz the sled just doesn't impress people buy in to it and are brand loyal down hill decent and change direction takes 10 times the effort the Xm does the new 850 will once again set the bar
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
The horsepower and torque available from a normally aspirated internal combustion engine are dependent upon the density of the air... higher density means more oxygen molecules and more power... lower density means less oxygen and less power.
The relative horsepower, and the dyno correction factor, allow mathematical calculation of the affects of air density on the wide-open-throttle horsepower and torque. The dyno correction factor is simply the mathematical reciprocal of the relative horsepower value.
Originally, all of the major US auto manufacturers were in or around Detroit Michigan, and the dyno reading taken in Detroit were considered to be the standard. However, as the auto industry spread both across the country and around the globe, the auto manufacturers needed a way to correlate the horsepower/torque data taken at those "non-standard" locations with the data taken at the "standard" location. Therefore, the SAE created J1349 in order to convert (or "correct") the dyno data taken, for example, in California or in Tokyo to be comparable to data taken at standard conditions in Detroit.
One common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
The relative horsepower, and the dyno correction factor, allow mathematical calculation of the affects of air density on the wide-open-throttle horsepower and torque. The dyno correction factor is simply the mathematical reciprocal of the relative horsepower value.
Originally, all of the major US auto manufacturers were in or around Detroit Michigan, and the dyno reading taken in Detroit were considered to be the standard. However, as the auto industry spread both across the country and around the globe, the auto manufacturers needed a way to correlate the horsepower/torque data taken at those "non-standard" locations with the data taken at the "standard" location. Therefore, the SAE created J1349 in order to convert (or "correct") the dyno data taken, for example, in California or in Tokyo to be comparable to data taken at standard conditions in Detroit.
One common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
common use of the dyno correction factor is to standardize the horsepower and torque readings, so that the effects of the ambient temperature and pressure are removed from the readings. By using the dyno correction factor, power and torque readings can be directly compared to the readings taken on some other day, or even taken at some other altitude.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
That is, the corrected readings are the same as the result that you would get by taking the car (or engine) to a certain temperature controlled, humidity controlled, pressure controlled dyno shop where they measure "standard" power, based on the carefully controlled temperature, humidity and pressure.
If you take your car to the dyno on a cold day at low altitude, it will make a lot of power. And if you take exactly the same car back to the same dyno on a hot day, it will make less power. But if you take the exact same car to the "standard" dyno (where the temperature, humidity and pressure are all carefully controlled) on those different days, it will always make exactly the same power.
ktmsx350f
Active VIP Member
Skidoo holds close to 50% of tue market yamaha is about 4% and polaris and cat make up the rest they use to be pretty equal but I'd say last 2 years polaris is quite a bit more then cat
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THIS IS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE.... ACCORDING TO THIS ARTICLE, SNOWMOBILES ONLY MAKE UP 8% OF POLARIS TOTAL SALES....
Snowmobile Sales Benefitted from Strong Winter
Story by Jerry Bassett Photos by Jerry Bassett May. 02, 2014 Share(16)
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Here at my solitary Minnesota-based satellite editorial office, things tend to get so slow that I actually look forward to attending the annual Polaris shareholders meeting. Held at the company’s corporate office in Medina, Minn., the location is relatively close by. The event is usually informative and sometimes a harbinger of corporate strategies. But, as the company celebrates 60 years of existence, Polaris has diversified and become very much a global corporation and not a singular snowmobile manufacturer as it started out in 1954.
Today snowmobiles account for a mere 8% of Polaris’ total sales. The Parts, Garments and Accessories (PGA) element of the company generates more than twice the revenue and 16% of total sales. The star of the company remains Off-Road Vehicles (side-by-sides and ATVs), which lead the charts with US$2.5 billion in sales, which makes up 67% of Polaris’ US$3.8 billion in annual revenues.
So, when you attend a Polaris shareholder meeting, the executives no longer wax poetic about a great snow season. Those days are gone, even though the heritage aspect of the snowmobile’s importance remains. Polaris has become quite diversified and international. It has a Defense sector, a fledgling Brutus line of commercial power products, a selection of electric-powered vehicles and two motorcycle product lines – Victory and Indian. Snowmobiles have a place, but it isn’t as big sales-wise as it once was.
Still, I sat at the shareholder meeting and reviewed the end-of-the fiscal year documents looking for insights to help preview our small world of snowmobiles. There was a surprise or two.
According to Polaris President Bennett Morgan, “The North American snowmobile industry concluded its strongest season in five years with industry retail up just over 10% and industry dealer inventories in excellent shape down strong double-digits.
“For the season Polaris’ retail grew mid-single digits,” Morgan said. “We gave back a little of our significant share gains over the past five years to share losses in the mountains caused by weak pre-season sales last spring and prior year RMK quality hiccups.”
But, he was upbeat. “Despite our modest share erosion this season, we are optimistic for the upcoming season. Our dealer inventory is in very good shape and is down year-over-year on model 2014. Our model year 2014 snowmobile quality was excellent and our model year 2015 snowmobile introductions were very significant and well received by both dealers and consumers. We introduced what we believe is the strongest product news in the industry led by our all new AXYS next generation chassis which is featured by nine RUSH performance and Switchback crossover segment products.”
Responding to questions during a teleconference with stock analysts, Polaris’ president noted “our snowchecks actually were considerably better than we expected year-over-year… there has been some weakness in the European snow market in the first quarter and we think their orders are going to be impacted.”
Although expecting a rosier outlook, I understood the caution on Polaris’ part as Morgan noted: “The first quarter European snow industry slowed due to poor snow and was down double digits in Q1… (There) was some impact on model year 2015 European snowmobile orders.”
There appears to be uneasiness about the impact Europe’s poor snow season will have as Morgan later confirmed, “They had a pretty lousy snow season, didn’t have good snow coverage for most of the year, and that’s affected the snowmobile orders.”
He expressed concern that between the Russian and Scandinavian markets, overall volume could end up being a little less than half of what it had been last season. As you may recall, 2012-2013 industry sled sales outside of North America represented 36% of total sales – or more than 50,000 units. If these estimates are correct, that puts international unit sales at the lowest it’s been since 2010. So, it’s a good thing that North America did well, because industry experts feel that overall unit sales will reflect growth.
When issuing guidance for stock analysts, all three North American snowmobile producers exercise caution. Artic Cat expects to grow its retail sales to prerecession levels. The Thief River Falls, Minn. based company states that its wholesale sled sales grew 7% and that it estimates a 5-8-percentage growth of retail snowmobile sales for the snowmobile industry. To move profitability ahead, Arctic Cat reports that its retail sales grew about 23% and that it expected to end its 2014 fiscal year with a 21% market share. Currently Arctic Cat snowmobiles represent 39% of the company’s volume versus 16% for PGA and 45% for its wheeled products.
“As we all know, the winter season has been very long in North America, with excellent snow coverage, all of course leading to a very strong snowmobile season,” stated BRP/Ski-Doo’s Jose Boisjoli as he addressed stock analysts during a teleconference. “This industry growth was much better than what we had anticipated. And when we look at the Ski-Doo inventory at dealers, it is at a historical low level. As of January 31, the North American snowmobile industry and BRP retail were up mid-double digit.”
But, like his counterparts at Polaris and Arctic Cat, Boisjoli projects caution with sled sales outside North America. “On the international side, despite below-average snow coverage, the Scandinavia snowmobile industry is up low-single digit, with BRP retail up high-single digit season-to-date. Note that the Scandinavia season ends at the end of June, versus the North America season, which ends at the end of March.
“The Russia market was more difficult this year due to poor snow coverage; and there is no doubt that the political and economic instability is having an impact on our retail performance. Russia is a key market for us, and the significant decline in the ruble in the past six months versus the euro most certainly puts pressure on profitability and the demand in that market. We are therefore prudent in our planning for the upcoming fiscal year.”
Even with that caveat, Ski-Doo reported a very good season and expresses optimism for continued good times. Boisjoli explained: “The snowmobile retail season, as you know, is very short and highly influenced by the timing and the quantum of snowfall. The season runs from October to March in North America, with the retail peak taking place in late December, early January.
He added, “…We started season 14 with the lowest level of network inventory since 2001. And at the moment, we are ending the season with network inventory at an all-time historical low. This is important because it bodes very well for our next wholesale season.”
According to BRP/Ski-Doo’s chief executive, Ski-Doo dealers came to the company’s sales meetings very enthusiastic about model-year 2015. He noted that pre-season orders were solid and that it would help create a very strong second half for BRP/Ski-Doo’s fiscal year.
Perhaps we didn’t get handstands from Polaris’ rather buttoned-down suit-and-tie contingent during the annual shareholders’ meeting, but that’s not what modern MBA types are like in this post-“Made Men” world. They need to project an image of trust so that we can report that all is right in the snowmobile world and that our decision to sit in on the annual shareholders’ meeting was a correct one.
So, while corporate executives must put on their “happy faces” when it comes time to talk to stock analysts, know that no wide smile works better than solid performance facts. No matter how you read the end-of-the-season results for Polaris, Arctic Cat and BRP, the reality is as Ski-Doo’s Boisjoli notes: “…The industry was healthy and the dealers have made money, and it’s very good for the industry overall.”
Cat401
Active VIP Member
Are you quoting market share numbers for the whole sled market?.... the mountain sled market?..... Western Canada?..... Eastern Canada?.... US sales?.....or Ft Mac sales?.......what?.........are these form a source or just from your head?...............please clarify your market share numbers
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snopro
Active VIP Member
Gotta be world Cat? I don't believe BRP has 50% in North America.
Just from what I have heard. Globally probably yes.
Just from what I have heard. Globally probably yes.
PINandPRAY
Active member
I can't understand one damn sentence, please continue to copy and paste someone else's complete sentences.
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