Does track speed matter ?

[arff]

track speed is awsome for blasting unsupecting newbies with massive amounts of snow when they park to close to the back of your sled

With snow flap removed???

 

[Clode]

With snow flap removed???

with snow flap, if you have enough track speed the snow flap is rendured useless by the sheer volume of snow hitting it

 

[Phat Cat]

Does track speed play a role in sled performance ?

Some engineers dont think so. 174 x 3" x 16 on an 800. hahaha

 

[maxwell]

Some engineers dont think so. 174 x 3" x 16 on an 800. hahaha

Lol ya that will never work!!!!




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[Clode]

Some engineers dont think so. 174 x 3" x 16 on an 800. hahaha

Lol ya that will never work!!!!





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......

 

[kanedog]

Track speed matters but Traction matters more.
In asphalt drag racing, lose traction and you lose the race. Same with mountain sledding. There is a fine line though. After 150hp it is difficult to maintain traction. The sled handles more like a jet ski after breaking traction. Until the turbo sled gets enough ground speed to almost match the track speed, the setup stocker that maintains traction will beat the turbo.
Check out the turbo sleds in 2017,18 & 19 Stock rear suspension, boost cranked up, trenching and wheelieing(is that even a word?) skis sky high in the air. A setup stock sled with traction would easily beat the turbos. It is funny to watch. Whatevs, it’s good entertainment. It’s also good entertainment to reply to a five year old thread. Cheers fackers !

 

[007sevens]

Track speed matters but Traction matters more.
In asphalt drag racing, lose traction and you lose the race. Same with mountain sledding. There is a fine line though. After 150hp it is difficult to maintain traction. The sled handles more like a jet ski after breaking traction. Until the turbo sled gets enough ground speed to almost match the track speed, the setup stocker that maintains traction will beat the turbo.
Check out the turbo sleds in 2017,18 & 19 Stock rear suspension, boost cranked up, trenching and wheelieing(is that even a word?) skis sky high in the air. A setup stock sled with traction would easily beat the turbos. It is funny to watch. Whatevs, it’s good entertainment. It’s also good entertainment to reply to a five year old thread. Cheers fackers !

You sure about this part of your statement. I call BS coming about here.

 

[kanedog]

You sure about this part of your statement. I call BS coming about here.

Let’s hear your theory.

 

[Teth-Air]

Let’s hear your theory.

Well I know you are not asking me but on sleds there is a factor of moving a mass of snow backwards that is equal to the mass of the sled. Once a spinning track throws enough snow rearward with that mass being higher than the mass of the sled the sled shoots forward. Much like a jet boat. This is not the same as traction and the concept blurs the line a bit.

 

[lilduke]

not sure it works quite like that. on hard pack for example you arent moving any snow, yet you still move forward.


same thing with the jet boat. you don't need to move 4000lbs of water to get it to go forward. I could get out and push it and I weigh 220.

 

[Teth-Air]

not sure it works quite like that. on hard pack for example you arent moving any snow, yet you still move forward.


same thing with the jet boat. you don't need to move 4000lbs of water to get it to go forward. I could get out and push it and I weigh 220.

You're missing the point. The point is there are 2 ways to move a sled. Push off a solid object or hurl a mass of snow backward. How much traction does a 747 have and it goes forward? The equivalent mass of the gases moving out of the jet engines have to overcome the mass of the plane. The turboed sled does not just rely on traction of solid snow. It "can" also thrust forward by throwing snow backwards and they do that very well. ps. 220 Dan? you better go on a diet, LOL.

So getting back to the original question "Does track speed matter?" Yes, only if you plan on moving forward without traction to solid object and want to take advantage of throwing snow for thrust.

 

[lilduke]

You're missing the point. The point is there are 2 ways to move a sled. Push off a solid object or hurl a mass of snow backward. How much traction does a 747 have and it goes forward? The equivalent mass of the gases moving out of the jet engines have to overcome the mass of the plane. The turboed sled does not just rely on traction of solid snow. It "can" also thrust forward by throwing snow backwards and they do that very well. ps. 220 Dan? you better go on a diet, LOL.

I'm 6 foot 3 so kinda skinny right now 240lbs is a more solid weight for me lol

I get what your saying, but I get what Kane dog is saying too.

for example a stock 174 will most likely out climb a turbo 136 on a pow day just tractoring along whilst the 136 would have all kinds of track speed.

 

[Teth-Air]

I'm 6 foot 3 so kinda skinny right now 240lbs is a more solid weight for me lol

I get what your saying, but I get what Kane dog is saying too.

for example a stock 174 will most likely out climb a turbo 136 on a pow day just tractoring along whilst the 136 would have all kinds of track speed.

I don't disagree if the snow is right but then there will be days that the results are reversed so I account that to the different methods for moving forward. (snow conditions)

 

[lilduke]

I don't disagree if the snow is right but then there will be days that the results are reversed so I account that to the different methods for moving forward. (snow conditions)

yes in setup snow the 136 turbo would kick some ass.(because it will have traction)

on a pow day it's going to be stuck.

 

[007sevens]

Let’s hear your theory.

A Turbo sled (assuming we are talking in the snow in the mountains) will never reach a ground speed equal to its track speed unless the Snow it is sitting on is wet and provides complete traction because of its ability to overpower its traction. At some point after all things equal maybe the sled will match its track speed assuming you don't point it on an incline that gravity over comes it ability to climb any further. Further more a stock sled will act the same in the same fashion just at a slower speed with less horsepower. Physics will explain this more for you. Newtons Third Law.

 

[kanedog]

Here’s the thing tho. Picture two feet of fresh pow. Picture a stock sled geared properly with either an old school cat secondary or paragon clutch beside a turbo sled. Now go wfo from a the hit. Unless you have seen how these clutches work and understand it, you won’t get it. Especially if you use two roller stock clutches like cat, poo and doo. These clutches just make track spin.
Yes, I agree. The ground speed(gs)will rarely be the same as track speed(ts). That’s why I said the ts almost equals gs. There will always be some slippage.
When clutch tuning, most dummies tune by target rpm and some super duper secret cam angles. They leave a ton on the table though. How? They don’t record the difference between ground speed and track speed. This is the most important factor on getting the most of the clutches. This tells you how each change affects track slip. Just like hi performance boat tuning. They go by prop slip. Less prop slip, faster boat. They change gearing and prop pitch(kinda like helix angle)for less prop slip.
Eg. 40mph ts with 30mph gs=10mph loss to track spin. With sleds, change gears, weight profile, springs etc to “narrow the gap” so to speak. Now 40mph ts with 35mph gs is kicking butt. The turbo will be at 55mph ts with 30mph gs. The sticker may be beat the turbo for a little bit until the turbo “narrows the gap.”
Further more, you don’t seem to grasp the concept of traction on snow yet. It’s almost like you are stubborn and/or thick.

 

[NoBrakes!]

jet boats are like fire hoses... it doesn't have to spray in the water, it can spray into the air and still move forward. so does the snow flying out of the tunnel with no flap push the sled forward? the snow would act like a non compressible fluid flying into the air, that has to create thrust no?

 

[007sevens]

Neither sled will ever be the same nor handle the same and in two feet of snow. I really don't give a **** to be honest. I have both in the shed and ride each when the conditions warrant the ride. I find a stock 3" track will take me just about anywhere the 3" Turbo will just at slower speeds. In two feet of snow from a dead stop the stock sled will out perform because of its lack of HP compared to the turbo which overpowers its traction very easily. I don't find this hard to understand at all. Paragon clutch on the other hand will improve any sled you install them on. They are custom made and very expensive which is why probably won't ever see one from the factory. A nice piece of hardware.

oh and thanks for the insult it almost hurt my feelings

 

[kanedog]

Neither sled will ever be the same nor handle the same and in two feet of snow. I really don't give a **** to be honest. I have both in the shed and ride each when the conditions warrant the ride. I find a stock 3" track will take me just about anywhere the 3" Turbo will just at slower speeds. In two feet of snow from a dead stop the stock sled will out perform because of its lack of HP compared to the turbo which overpowers its traction very easily. I don't find this hard to understand at all. Paragon clutch on the other hand will improve any sled you install them on. They are custom made and very expensive which is why probably won't ever see one from the factory. A nice piece of hardware.

oh and thanks for the insult it almost hurt my feelings

“Overpowers its traction.” So true. Imagine how good a sled would go if the track was always just below breaking traction, the perfect amount. That’s what the above clutches will do when setup correctly. The performance is crazy.
Looks like we think the same and you’re not too dumb. Haha good convo double o bro!

 

[kanedog]

jet boats are like fire hoses... it doesn't have to spray in the water, it can spray into the air and still move forward. so does the snow flying out of the tunnel with no flap push the sled forward? the snow would act like a non compressible fluid flying into the air, that has to create thrust no?

I don’t know but now I have something to analyze in my clutch brain.