Diesel Vs Gas 2500/3500

[Merc63]

Interesting, that's the first I've heard of that. I've never even been asking about maintenance when having a vehicle in for warranty. I guess it would take something to warrant the question.

 

[iceman5689]

Duramax has one fuel filter. Cut a door in the inner fender to access it. Use zip ties to close the door back up. It takes 10 mins to change the fuel filter, no shop needed.

No, that's incorrect, you don't have to pay a shop to do your maintenance to keep your warranty. You have to record the work and keep receipts for filters, oils etc in your book.

17's fuel filter is nice and accessible. right next to the fuel tank and bedrail. Finally GM figured this out!

 

[catalac]

It's really an easy choice regardless of the normal criticisms when ever this topic comes up about def, maintenance cost, fuel mileage etc, they are all valid arguments but can also be argued irrelevant.

Buy the diesel if you can afford it, simple as that.

 

[iceman5689]

Recently bought a new L5P after yrs of bleeding cummins. You will never get the mileage that the older diesels without emission controls got, even chipped and deleted. This is why I won't be deleting the new duramax. $2000 to save a couple litres per 100/k. And chance loosing warranty work is not worth it. Friend of mine dropped one hole of his 16 duramax, GM refused warranty work at cost of $13,000. I use approx. 1.7litres of DEF per 100/k. (26 liter tank).GM does offer free services for 40,000k. Pretty hard to go back to a gas jobber once owning diesel, they pull almost effortless. In the end yes diesel trucks are more expensive to buy, and both will do the job.

 

[ATV Rancher]

Its a dodge, what did you expect lol. A good engine in a POS truck. Try a GM product Sir.

A newer diesel truck is designed to tow/drive, not to sit around idling checking livestock. The worst thing you can do with a new diesel is idle them. If you have to idle it, put it on high idle, more oil pressure and the dpf won't plug up.

Have got some GM gassers that are fine. Just avoided the Duramax because the DEF tank was in such a low, vulnerable position, and figured I would find a way to destroy it.

 

[Beels]

Had a 6.4 hemi in a 3500 dodge. Traded it for a 3500 Duramax. Let's just say I USED to be a dodge guy. First thing is first. How big and heavy is your 5th wheel? If it is like mine you won't be able to haul it with a gas job. As for the added costs of the diesel?? My diesel is way cheaper to run them my 6.4 hemi ever was. Oil change at the dealer is 100$. Oil change on the dodge to do my self was around 70-80$. Fuel mileage is way better so that pays for the extra on the monthly payment. It is twice the truck the dodge was. Even towing my smaller enclosed is a night and day difference

Curious what year your 6.4 Hemi was? I ran a pre-emmisions Duramax for a number of years and ended up going to a gasser 1/2 ton hemi in '14. Seriously considering going back to a 2500 or 3500 for my next truck but am thinking of staying away from the diesel and going with a 6.4. There's a lot of days where it leaves the garage and drives 5 minutes to work, then back at lunch and the end of the day. I pull a 31ft bumper pull camper in the summer and have a deck that I haven't used since I went to the half ton. I also pull a bit at work, but not a whole bunch. I know the gasser isn't going to perform like a diesel but I can live with that. Just how bad was your mileage daily driving?

 

[the_real_wild1]

Curious what year your 6.4 Hemi was? I ran a pre-emmisions Duramax for a number of years and ended up going to a gasser 1/2 ton hemi in '14. Seriously considering going back to a 2500 or 3500 for my next truck but am thinking of staying away from the diesel and going with a 6.4. There's a lot of days where it leaves the garage and drives 5 minutes to work, then back at lunch and the end of the day. I pull a 31ft bumper pull camper in the summer and have a deck that I haven't used since I went to the half ton. I also pull a bit at work, but not a whole bunch. I know the gasser isn't going to perform like a diesel but I can live with that. Just how bad was your mileage daily driving?

Mine was a 2014. If your trailer is light enough and you must go dodge with a hemi get the 2500. The ride is much better. Personally if I had to get a gas job right now in a new truck I would try out a new ford 3500 or the Chevy 3500. They both ride nice. I still think the nicest 1/2ton I ever had was my 2013 dodge 1500 longhorn. It was a great truck. My mileage on the 6.4 hemi was about 13 mpg on the highway. When towing it was about 8-10 mpg on a good day. I picked my enclosed trailer in Lethbridge on a windy day. I got just under 200km to a tank of fuel that day and could barely hold 100 km/h. Had to fill up three times to get back to Edmonton.

 

[Cdnfireman]

I recently sold my diesel and have a 2018 superduty 6.2 gas on order. I put a lot of thought into whether or not I wanted a diesel, but after lots of thinking, research and number crunching I decided on the gas engine.
If you’re towing much over 12k, get the diesel. A diesel is better for moving heavy loads and for pulling all the huge fifth wheel trailers that people seem to want. Just be aware that the newer diesels don’t get the mileage that the older models did, and typically now diesel runs about 10% higher than gas at the pump. The DEF costs are marginal, but still have to be considered, and service costs on a Diesel engine are about 2.5 times the cost of a gas engine, and if you run a fuel conditioner you have to add that to your costs as well.
The new diesels are incredibly powerful, but also incredibly complex and incredibly sensitive to fuel quality. One bad tank of fuel that contaminates the fuel system can result in a repair that runs into several thousand dollars and is not covered by warranty. If any one of a dozen plus sensors gets wonky you get check engine lights and possibly a truck becoming undrivable or sent into a limp mode. When they work well, the modern diesels are fantastic machines, but when a problem appears, get your wallet out, particularly so if you tend to keep your vehicles past the warranty coverage. The repair costs for just the fuel system in a diesel will cover a remanufactured engine and transmission for a gas truck.
In my case, my trailer weighs in about 9k, and I carry either quads or a SxS on the deck. The 6.2 gas with the 4.3 rear axle in the superduty easily handles this load, and according to friends that have both diesel and gas trucks will only get about 4-5 mpg less than a comparable diesel. Bearing in mind the diesel option costs $10k, it takes a long time to pay off that difference at a 4 mpg offset on fuel costs, particularly so when you factor in the 10% premium for diesel at the pump. I figured that it would take about 275,000 km for me to begin to make the $10k diesel option justifiable.
The depreciation argument for me is immaterial because I keep my vehicles for a long time. Based on my research, after 10 years and 200,000+km, the diesel option only retains 20-25% of its initial cost, and for higher Km numbers it becomes even less. Just ask yourself how much you would want a diesel truck with 250k+ on it.
For me the trouble free potential is much higher with a gas truck. It warms up quicker in winter, fuel quality is usually never an issue and is available everywhere. No messing with and paying for fuel filters, front end components and front brakes last longer due to lower front axle weights, tire life is usually better.
A modern gas engine will easily go 300k with no issues, and when it does $hit the bed, it costs a quarter of what the diesel does to replace.
Lots to consider for sure, this is how I came to my decision. Hope it helps.

 

[Cyle]

IMO the 2500/3500 gasser is pretty much useless. If a 1500 isn't suitable to tow/haul it, buy a diesel. The only advantage with Dodge is the solid axle of the 2500/3500 over the 1500. The 2500/3500 gassers are so hard on fuel, and still have no power. Look up the resale on a 3-5 year old 2500/3500 gasser, people are giving them away, while a diesel is still worth a fortune. My 13 Ram 3500 with 100km on it I could sell it tomorrow and only loose about $12k from what I bought it for. If it was a gasser, it wouldn't be worth anyway close to only the cost of diesel upgrade less, it would be worth probably $15k less then the diesel. The tiny bit of extra maintenance cost will be taken care of by fuel savings (even with fuel costing more currently). However if you keep for a long time and factor in changing spark plugs, that's a huge hit that will probably make the gasser more expensive to maintain.

As others have said, a lot of diesel problems are from people not using them like a truck. 100km of trouble free emissions here, pretty sure the truck has only regen 2 times in it's life. When you are towing 20k with it, it keeps everything pretty clean

Heck i'm looking to buy a new runaround truck and i'm thinking of going with a 3500 diesel over a 1500, when you look at how little the extra cost is initially, re-sale, maintenance, the diesel makes so much more sense.

A lot of peoples cost for a diesel is inflated, yes if you want every single option you will pay like $70k for a diesel, but you can get decent options and be out the door at $55k for a new 3500 diesel. You will be maybe $10k less for a similar 1500/2500/3500 gasser.

The only time a 2500/3500 gasser makes sense is if buying a used one, maybe $5-15k in value and it's seeing very few miles and need to haul/tow just a bit too much for a 1500 to take care of. Otherwise, they are just a terrible buy.

 

[LBZ]

Interesting, that's the first I've heard of that. I've never even been asking about maintenance when having a vehicle in for warranty. I guess it would take something to warrant the question.

Ya I was quite surprised. Doesn't surprise me that much though - #Fordlife

 

[LBZ]

I recently sold my diesel and have a 2018 superduty 6.2 gas on order. I put a lot of thought into whether or not I wanted a diesel, but after lots of thinking, research and number crunching I decided on the gas engine.
If you’re towing much over 12k, get the diesel. A diesel is better for moving heavy loads and for pulling all the huge fifth wheel trailers that people seem to want. Just be aware that the newer diesels don’t get the mileage that the older models did, and typically now diesel runs about 10% higher than gas at the pump. The DEF costs are marginal, but still have to be considered, and service costs on a Diesel engine are about 2.5 times the cost of a gas engine, and if you run a fuel conditioner you have to add that to your costs as well.
The new diesels are incredibly powerful, but also incredibly complex and incredibly sensitive to fuel quality. One bad tank of fuel that contaminates the fuel system can result in a repair that runs into several thousand dollars and is not covered by warranty. If any one of a dozen plus sensors gets wonky you get check engine lights and possibly a truck becoming undrivable or sent into a limp mode. When they work well, the modern diesels are fantastic machines, but when a problem appears, get your wallet out, particularly so if you tend to keep your vehicles past the warranty coverage. The repair costs for just the fuel system in a diesel will cover a remanufactured engine and transmission for a gas truck.
In my case, my trailer weighs in about 9k, and I carry either quads or a SxS on the deck. The 6.2 gas with the 4.3 rear axle in the superduty easily handles this load, and according to friends that have both diesel and gas trucks will only get about 4-5 mpg less than a comparable diesel. Bearing in mind the diesel option costs $10k, it takes a long time to pay off that difference at a 4 mpg offset on fuel costs, particularly so when you factor in the 10% premium for diesel at the pump. I figured that it would take about 275,000 km for me to begin to make the $10k diesel option justifiable.
The depreciation argument for me is immaterial because I keep my vehicles for a long time. Based on my research, after 10 years and 200,000+km, the diesel option only retains 20-25% of its initial cost, and for higher Km numbers it becomes even less. Just ask yourself how much you would want a diesel truck with 250k+ on it.
For me the trouble free potential is much higher with a gas truck. It warms up quicker in winter, fuel quality is usually never an issue and is available everywhere. No messing with and paying for fuel filters, front end components and front brakes last longer due to lower front axle weights, tire life is usually better.
A modern gas engine will easily go 300k with no issues, and when it does $hit the bed, it costs a quarter of what the diesel does to replace.
Lots to consider for sure, this is how I came to my decision. Hope it helps.

I think you will find the first time you pin on to something it's going to be more than 4-5mpg less. More like 8-10. Just going by past gassers I've driven and friends trucks. Not a fair comparison but a 6.0 gas gm 2500 I used to have was almost half the fuel economy my dmax at the time got. Same road, wind and even driving slower.

Also not sure where you get 2.5 times the cost for an oil change. $120 for my buddies 6.4 hemi and $160 for my dmax. More if you do the fuel filter but that's only once every 50k km or so.

Resale on my last diesel was 10-15k higher than comparable gassers too.

 

[Cdnfireman]

I think you will find the first time you pin on to something it's going to be more than 4-5mpg less. More like 8-10. Just going by past gassers I've driven and friends trucks. Not a fair comparison but a 6.0 gas gm 2500 I used to have was almost half the fuel economy my dmax at the time got. Same road, wind and even driving slower.

Also not sure where you get 2.5 times the cost for an oil change. $120 for my buddies 6.4 hemi and $160 for my dmax. More if you do the fuel filter but that's only once every 50k km or so.

Resale on my last diesel was 10-15k higher than comparable gassers too.

Im sure there’s engine/trans/axle combos that are worse for mileage. My experiences and talking with friends that have them, the 6.2 gas/torqeshift/ 4.3 axle pretty consistently gets 4-5 mpg less than a comparable 6.7 PSD when towing the same type of loads that I’ll be moving. Put a 18k fifth wheel behind a gasser and those numbers go out the window for sure. And of course if you’re talking Cummins, they always get 20 or 30mpg better, never slow down etc etc etc.
I was talking service costs, not just oil changes. Factor in fuel filters, higher cost oil and air filters for the diesels, DEF and I’m pretty close.
Resale on a truck that’s only a few years old the diesel will be close to the $10k more for the diesel option, but not all of the $10k. Assuming the trucks are in comparable condition and options, as they age and mileage increases the difference gets smaller.
Diesels have their advantages for sure, and I had one for 14 years. But this time I can’t justify it.

 

[LBZ]

Im sure there’s engine/trans/axle combos that are worse for mileage. My experiences and talking with friends that have them, the 6.2 gas/torqeshift/ 4.3 axle pretty consistently gets 4-5 mpg less than a comparable 6.7 PSD when towing the same type of loads that I’ll be moving. Put a 18k fifth wheel behind a gasser and those numbers go out the window for sure. And of course if you’re talking Cummins, they always get 20 or 30mpg better, never slow down etc etc etc.
I was talking service costs, not just oil changes. Factor in fuel filters, higher cost oil and air filters for the diesels, DEF and I’m pretty close.
Resale on a truck that’s only a few years old the diesel will be close to the $10k more for the diesel option, but not all of the $10k. Assuming the trucks are in comparable condition and options, as they age and mileage increases the difference gets smaller.
Diesels have their advantages for sure, and I had one for 14 years. But this time I can’t justify it.

Your right. Different gears do make a difference.

Difference in service costs is still negligible. Air filter is like $5 more. Oil is the same and 15w40 is often cheaper even. Only thing that is higher cost really is the fuel filter. But as I said it doesn't need to be changed every oil change.

FWIW I got rid of my 07 dmax with 220000km on it this spring. A newer truck with same mileage was valued at 10g easy less than mine was.

 

[pano-dude]

I have been running a 2015 ram 2500 5.7, 60k on it no issues. Typical daily driving in the mountains I get 14km/l, Alberta hiway driving it drops to 11- 12km/l.
I pull my skid steer on a 16ft trailer that is just under 10k lbs and it gets 20-25kms/l mountain driving.
I couldn't justify the 12k difference in price for a diesel for the few times I need to move the skid steer.
I will be trading it off this summer and will go 6.4 hemi and 3500.
Oil changes have been typically at 10,000kms and only 6 liters.

 

[hondalrd]

Lots of good points and opinions so far ! Does any one have real mpg for all the gassers? And the new diesels ? Unloaded and pulling a trailer ?

 

[Cdnfireman]

Lots of good points and opinions so far ! Does any one have real mpg for all the gassers? And the new diesels ? Unloaded and pulling a trailer ?

Based on what I’ve seen with my friends trucks, both f350 lbcc 4x4, one diesel one gas, diesel is 2016,gas is 2017.
Gas empty on highway, (6.2. 4.3 axle) 15-16 mpg, towing 10k with quads on deck, 9.5-10.5 mpg.
Diesel empty (6.7, 3.31 axle) 18-20 mpg, towing 12k bumper pull toyhauler 13-14 mpg.
Both guys pretty anal about maintenance and record keeping so I trust their numbers, both are hand calculated not using the onboard mpg screen. This is total fuel used, including regens for the diesel.
I have other friends with diesels but they’re pulling bigger loads so their data is not a relative comparison.
As for service costs, on an annual basis, assuming 3 oil changes, gas engine needs 21 litres of oil vs. 39 for diesel. Diesel needs one set of fuel filters (approx $50), roughly $40 for DEF and $50 for fuel conditioner that the gassed doesn’t need so I stand by my double the service costs for diesel.

 

[Mach1]

Well not to many gasser with over 400k but lots diesel with over 400 and 600k, I think they are all good for a perpuse. Some have lots problems and others are good. I don't think I would buy a new diesel for a while unless it is us used one from someone I know, lol I have had 3 diesel (99 5.9 dodge 597k, 2006 f350 6.0L 179k and a 2012 6.7 dodge 211k and now a f150 378k love the ride but omg what a pos when pulling, I know lots say there half ton old or new can pull a 4 place no prob.....no way in **ll a gasser can pull as much or as often as far with as much ease like a diesel period.... I cross the country 11,000 4 times a yr pulling empty trailers to loaded and I can honestly say that I felt totally safe in wind, hills and bad weather in a diesel and many times I didn't in the gasser......I don't change trucks like others so I can tell you what cost is on service on both. Like I said if you don't tow lots then gasser and if you do and want to feel safe then diesel..... Oh and the f350 was the biggest pos and cost the most out of all 3 trucks, lol

 

[Cdnfireman]

Well not to many gasser with over 400k but lots diesel with over 400 and 600k, I think they are all good for a perpuse. Some have lots problems and others are good. I don't think I would buy a new diesel for a while unless it is us used one from someone I know, lol I have had 3 diesel (99 5.9 dodge 597k, 2006 f350 6.0L 179k and a 2012 6.7 dodge 211k and now a f150 378k love the ride but omg what a pos when pulling, I know lots say there half ton old or new can pull a 4 place no prob.....no way in **ll a gasser can pull as much or as often as far with as much ease like a diesel period.... I cross the country 11,000 4 times a yr pulling empty trailers to loaded and I can honestly say that I felt totally safe in wind, hills and bad weather in a diesel and many times I didn't in the gasser......I don't change trucks like others so I can tell you what cost is on service on both. Like I said if you don't tow lots then gasser and if you do and want to feel safe then diesel..... Oh and the f350 was the biggest pos and cost the most out of all 3 trucks, lol

Tough to compare an f150 to a one ton for towing.

 

[Mach1]

Tough to compare an f150 to a one ton for towing.

Yes true, so why is it I see them all over the Rd, I even see lots half ton towing skid steers. Yes they can, but shouldn't be.
so like you said tough to compare.....

 

[pano-dude]

I could not imagine pulling a skid steer with a half ton, the 2500 gets it done but not as stable as I would like and the reason I am moving to a 3500. The 2500 was a smoking good deal and I needed a truck on the spot.